NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 My cell phone battery uses 3.7V. I want to use 2 "AA" batteries (3V) to replace the 3.7V cell phone battery. Does anyone know where I would start to try to design a dc-to-dc converter for this? How important is it to use 3.7V as opposed to a 3V power supply? I'm sorry for the complete newbie question, but I don't have much experience with electronics. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Two AA battery cells are 3V only when they are new. Their voltage quickly drops to about 2.4V then slowly drops to 2.0V.I don't think your cell phone will work with a battery that is between 2.0V and 3.0V.Where are you going to put a dc-dc converter circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I thought that a dc-to-dc converter would be required to meet the 3.7V battery requirement. If I had 3V, then that would have to be converted to 3.7V to make the device work properly... at least I assume that to be the case. I never thought about a voltage drop-off being a problem... good point. So what about the devices that uses "AA" batteries in order to operate? They are designed to operate between these voltages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 So what about the devices that uses "AA" batteries in order to operate? They are designed to operate between these voltages?Two AA battery cells supply a voltage of from 2.0V when old, to 3.1V when new. Devices that use this as a battery must be designed for the range of voltages or they won't work, will they?A guy posted a circuit on the web that uses an ordinary Cmos gate IC that has a minimum operating voltage of 3.0V, and he powers it with two AA battery cells. I tried it and so did other people and we found that it doesn't work with a battery that is slightly used.I built it with a 74HCxx high-speed Cmos gate IC that has a minimum operating voltage of 2.0V and it works fine until the two AA cells are at the end of their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Great Insight. I would be interested to see what operating voltage range my cell phone would work. I don't want to hook this up to a variable DC supply: do I run the risk of destroying my cell-phone if I put 4.5V into it? My plan was to completely charge a cell phone battery and measure the voltage accross the leads to see the operating voltage range of my cell phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Luckily, on queue, my cell phone started beeping me indicating a low-battery. I measured the leads of the cell phone battery at 3.45V. If I can assume that this is my minimum voltage, then the range of voltage I want to get from "AA" batteries is 3.45V - 3.7V. The question is, can I get this range of voltage with 3-4 "AA" batteries. The additional constraint would be not to damage cell phone with excessive voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Actually, I have a LG VX3200. A very basic $20 phone from Verizon. Horrid battery life. This wasn't even really intended to fit inside a cell phone. I don't see how it could either. I imagine I could tape/velcro the batteries to the back cover somehow. It wouldn't be for looks. I just really like the idea of using "AA" batteries for a cell phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ante Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 A circuit diagram would help, some phones have a step-up regulator right at the input and some have a step-down. It is a good start to know which you phone has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 A circuit diagram would help, some phones have a step-up regulator right at the input and some have a step-down. It is a good start to know which you phone has.Speaking of a step-up voltage regulator, are there any voltage regulators capable of converting 3V to 3.7V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Are you planning to run your cell phone from throw-away alkaline battery cells, instead of using a rechargable battery? Are you foolish and rich?AAA cells have less than half the capacity of AA cells and AAAA cells or a 9V battery (it has 6 AAAA cells inside) have 1/5th the capacity of AA cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 I guess I don't really care about the practicality about it! I figure there are worse things I could be doing with my mind and my money... and if I happen to learn a couple things on the way, how bad could that be for me? What non-linear voltage regulators can you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ante Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Speaking of a step-up voltage regulator, are there any voltage regulators capable of converting 3V to 3.7V?Put in your requirements here:http://para.maxim-ic.com/search.mvp?q=dcdc_all&an_1=Family&av_1=Switch-Mode%20DC-DC%20Power%20Suppliesand you will be recommended some alternatives to chose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for the link. Looks like I'll have to do a little bit of research to figure out what all the parameters mean... in the meantime, what are some of the favorite and more popular switching voltage regulators out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I have decided on:TPS61122: Synchronous Boost Converter with 1.1A Switch and Integrated LDOIs this a good choice?The specs:"3.6-V 95% Efficient Boost Converter with 3.3-V 200-mA LDO for 1-Cell LiIon or Dual-Cell Applications"1. Topology: Boost 2. Min Vin: 1.83. Max Vin: 5.54. Min Vout: 3.65. Max Vout: 3.66. Preset Vout: 3.67. Iou Maxt: 0.58. Iout(2): 0.29. Operating Frequency: 600 kHz10. Iq(typ) 0.04 mALooks like the Max, Min, and the Preset Vout is almost exactly where I want it to be: near 3.7V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Can anyone recommend a 2 "AA" battery holder that doesn't take too much space? My current designs for a prototype will be to use a 2 "AA" battery holder, solder some wire to the leads to my little switching voltage regulator, and then connect the output of the voltage regulator to the cell phone battery terminals with very small aligator clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I have decided on:TPS61122: Synchronous Boost Converter with 1.1A Switch and Integrated LDOIs this a good choice?It is in a tiny surface-mount package. Can you solder it?Its regulated output voltage is only 200mA which is only 0.74W at 3.7V. The RF output of my cell phone is 2W so its battery power is about 3W at 3.7V. The IC isn't powerful enough for my cell phone. Will it work with yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 It is in a tiny surface-mount package. Can you solder it?I have no idea! I hope so... I won't know until I see it. I'm getting a free sample off of the TI site.Its regulated output voltage is only 200mA which is only 0.74W at 3.7V. The RF output of my cell phone is 2W so its battery power is about 3W at 3.7V. The IC isn't powerful enough for my cell phone. Will it work with yours? I had no idea that a little cell phone would be drawing that much power?! So maybe it's back to the drawing board. I found some battery holder's online through batteryspace.com. It is a little expensive for shipping, but the holder's themselves are cheap. Also, I didn't realize what you guys were saying about the rechargeables being only 1.2V each... so maybe I could use 3 "AA" rechargeable batteries for 3.6V and not worry about the regulator. However, I also like the idea of using 2 "AAA" batteries to cut down on size, so I am still interested in switching regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indulis Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Be careful here...Yes, it's a boost converter, but by definition, a boost converters output will always be bigger than it's input. Just because it says the input range is to 5V, doesn't mean you can put 5V in and get 3.7V out... won't happen. Your input voltage would have to be less than 3.7V. Also, you don't "have to use" the "on-board" LDO. The internal "switch" is good for 1A, so you can get more than 200mA out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 [i didn't realize what you guys were saying about the rechargeables being only 1.2V each... so maybe I could use 3 "AA" rechargeable batteries for 3.6V and not worry about the regulator. However, I also like the idea of using 2 "AAA" batteries to cut down on size, so I am still interested in switching regulator.The Lithium-Ion rechargable battery that is made to fit in your cell phone is 3.7V. Most people use it and charge it with the charger that is made for it. Why don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 The Lithium-Ion rechargable battery that is made to fit in your cell phone is 3.7V. Most people use it and charge it with the charger that is made for it. Why don't you?Really?!? I had no idea. Maybe I should do that. I don't think that's really a feasible idea for me (just kidding). I always have to do things the backwards way first and then realize there is a reason for doing it the way it is done in the first place. That, unfortunately, is the only way I learn... Yours Truly,College of Hard-Knocks Graduate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Be careful here...Yes, it's a boost converter, but by definition, a boost converters output will always be bigger than it's input. Just because it says the input range is to 5V, doesn't mean you can put 5V in and get 3.7V out... won't happen. Your input voltage would have to be less than 3.7V. Also, you don't "have to use" the "on-board" LDO. The internal "switch" is good for 1A, so you can get more than 200mA out of it.But the specs quote max voltage = min voltage = preset voltage = 3.6V. I thought that no matter what voltage you put in from 1.8V to 5.5V, you would always get 3.6V period. If this isn't the case, what kind-of voltage do you expect to get from a 5.5V input? I wasn't too concerned about getting a boost converter so much as getting a voltage regulator that was capable of being efficient, as well as creating a constant voltage at 3.6V.Also, what is LDO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToElectronics Posted August 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Audioguru, I'm starting to see your wisdom in your recommendation to use the rechargeable battery that came with my phone. However, my morbid curiosity is getting the better of me here. I noticed an LC circuit in between the battery input for this chip (TPS61122, switching boost converter) and the SWN and SWP inputs. The SWP is the DC/DC rectifying switch input and SWN is the DC/DC switch input. What does this LC circuit accomplish?http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61122.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 The voltage-boosting IC is a switched-mode power supply. Its oscillator grounds one end of the coil with the other end at the input voltage which builds magnetism in the coil, then releases the coil and it makes a "flyback" higher voltage which is stored as the boosted voltage.An ordinary linear voltage regulator needs its input voltage at least 2.5V higher than its regulated output voltage. This IC's LDO (low dropout) regulator needs its input voltage to be only at least 0.3V higher than its regulated output voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.