I don't know what I"m doing wrong.......about to give up....

[jknightandkarr]

I've tried the toner transfer method 5 times now, 2 times, on regular paper, 2 times on tracing paper & once on photo paper & everytime the results are the same, half the toner stuck on the board, half on the paper.  I put the image on the pcb & secure it in place with masking tape, both sides, since my design uses a 2 sided pcb.  press down on an iron, tried high & lower heat settings.  Put it in water & let sit, tried letting the board cool down on the photo paper & tried hot board straight into water with the other paper attempts.  There is obviously something I'm doing wrong.  Can anyone please help me with this??  ???  It's driving me insane.  :'(

Joe

[mvs sarma]

I've tried the toner transfer method 5 times now, 2 times, on regular paper, 2 times on tracing paper & once on photo paper & everytime the results are the same, half the toner stuck on the board, half on the paper.  I put the image on the pcb & secure it in place with masking tape, both sides, since my design uses a 2 sided pcb.  press down on an iron, tried high & lower heat settings.  Put it in water & let sit, tried letting the board cool down on the photo paper & tried hot board straight into water with the other paper attempts.  There is obviously something I'm doing wrong.  Can anyone please help me with this??  ???  It's driving me insane.  :'(

Joe

you need a proper understanding and also patience.
every time you change one or other item,then you will never know what mistake is being committed.
try to use magazine paper or the type of paper used by RS components catalog.
even text printed paper would work
the ironing should better be done at 170 to 180 deg Celsius , and never more than that.on a Philips  make auto iron i am told that it works on polyester clothing. this setting may be valid for others also.

most  important is the contamination free copper surface.and reasonably scrubbed by 3M scotch pad and washed and cleaned by a fresh paper napkin as cloth may gain contaminate it.

[Hero999]

Yes, temperature setting is critical. I found, that if it's too hot, the toner can smear and some of the magazine print can transfer, especially if too much pressure is used, too cool and the toner will never soften.

Yes clean the board until it's really bright and shiny.

Make sure that you don't touch the toner on the print-out: any grease on the toner might stop it transferring to the board.

Is it always the same part of the board which isn't transferring well?

I've found out that it can often be difficult to transfer around the edges, you should never track too close to the edge of the board anyway.

If everything else is right, then the chances are you're not applying enough pressure to all parts of the board. Try putting a rolling pin on the other side of the board, roll it back and forth as you iron, then repeat with the board rotated by 90

[jknightandkarr]

you need a proper understanding and also patience.
every time you change one or other item,then you will never know what mistake is being committed.
try to use magazine paper or the type of paper used by RS components catalog.
even text printed paper would work
the ironing should better be done at 170 to 180 deg Celsius , and never more than that.on a Philips  make auto iron i am told that it works on polyester clothing. this setting may be valid for others also.

most  important is the contamination free copper surface.and reasonably scrubbed by 3M scotch pad and washed and cleaned by a fresh paper napkin as cloth may gain contaminate it.

Magazine paper?  I'm guessing you mean take a magazine appart & use the paper from there or use RS component cat, think that's radio shack, correct?  As for the temp, thanks, I just got the cheapest iron I could find, but I got a digital BBQ thermomiter that will get me to that range, 170-180 deg C or 338-356 deg F, I'll start 175 C/347 F area.  I'm using Grade #0000 or The Finest Steel wool that I could get to clean the boards, shines i& brightens t up real good.

Yes, temperature setting is critical. I found, that if it's too hot, the toner can smear and some of the magazine print can transfer, especially if too much pressure is used, too cool and the toner will never soften.

Yes clean the board until it's really bright and shiny.

Make sure that you don't touch the toner on the print-out: any grease on the toner might stop it transferring to the board.

Is it always the same part of the board which isn't transferring well?

I've found out that it can often be difficult to transfer around the edges, you should never track too close to the edge of the board anyway.

If everything else is right, then the chances are you're not applying enough pressure to all parts of the board. Try putting a rolling pin on the other side of the board, roll it back and forth as you iron, then repeat with the board rotated by 90

[Hero999]

Magazine paper?  I'm guessing you mean take a magazine appart & use the paper from there or use RS component cat, think that's radio shack, correct? 

No RS components are a totally different company to Radio Shack, they are a British based company, Radio Shack is US. RS components are a high quality supplier, Radio Shack, which used to exist in the UK under the name Tandy, sell overpriced crap.

Yes, magazine paper works. I thought that the think paper used for RS component catalogues would be too thin for a laser printer but others have used it with no problem. I would generally recommend slightly thicker glossy clay coated magazine paper. From memory the paper used to print Tandy catalogues would have been perfect.

As for the temp, thanks, I just got the cheapest iron I could find, but I got a digital BBQ thermomiter that will get me to that range, 170-180 deg C or 338-356 deg F, I'll start 175 C/347 F area.

The actual optimum temperature varies with the type of toner you have, it's just that many people have found around 180

[jknightandkarr]

No RS components are a totally different company to Radio Shack, they are a British based company, Radio Shack is US. RS components are a high quality supplier, Radio Shack, which used to exist in the UK under the name Tandy, sell overpriced crap.

Yes, magazine paper works. I thought that the think paper used for RS component catalogues would be too thin for a laser printer but others have used it with no problem. I would generally recommend slightly thicker glossy clay coated magazine paper. From memory the paper used to print Tandy catalogues would have been perfect.

The actual optimum temperature varies with the type of toner you have, it's just that many people have found around 180

[mvs sarma]

..........
My Toner is from Brother, but I'll try the 170-180 range & see what happens.
All I have is a plastic rolling pin, but I'll try ooooooooooh ab out med pressure on the iron next.   Only an inkjet printer is my 2nd one, my toner melts, maybe the phone book/heat/pressure is my problem.  I'll try an old Jeg's or Summit Racing Equipment catalog, that should work.  Thanks again.

Joe

could you spend little time to see the video from the link below

the finer details and paper comparison are available at

http://sirloon.net/loonaweb/sirblog/pcb-using-toner-transfer-method-comparison

[Hero999]

Ok, I thought RS was Radio Shack given the letters, I'll have to check them out.  I remember Tandy & your right Radio shack is over priced, & really don't have the selection of parts they used to.  >:( 

Tandy/Radio Shack have gone from the UK and Canada but still (as far as I'm aware) exist in the US.

My Toner is from Brother, but I'll try the 170-180 range & see what happens.
All I have is a plastic rolling pin, but I'll try ooooooooooh ab out med pressure on the iron next.   Only an inkjet printer is my 2nd one, my toner melts, maybe the phone book/heat/pressure is my problem.  I'll try an old Jeg's or Summit Racing Equipment catalog, that should work.  Thanks again.

As you probably know inkjet won't work.

A plastic rolling pin should be fine; it shouldn't melt as long as it doesn't come into direct contact with the iron for too long.

[jknightandkarr]

Tandy/Radio Shack have gone from the UK and Canada but still (as far as I'm aware) exist in the US.


As you probably know inkjet won't work.

A plastic rolling pin should be fine; it shouldn't melt as long as it doesn't come into direct contact with the iron for too long.

Yeah, Radio Shack is still in the US.  Inkjet would work on the photo method I know, but not toner transfer, I did find some paper at Hobby Lobby called Foundation Paper, which I'm going to try, desolves in water in about 10 seconds.  I'll stick with my wood peice.  I don't want to risk ruining my rolling pin.  It's my only one, is thin material (can be filled with water for weight) plus I like to cook, so I need it for baking.

Joe

[Hero999]

I've never hard of foundation paper before.

I've just Googled it and it came up with this which is very expensive, you can buy special proprietary toner transfer paper for less than that.
http://www.creativegrids.com/acatalog/info_N0234.html

[jknightandkarr]

Well after putting the probe from my digital bbq therm under my iron for a while I think I may know my problem, according to my BBQ therm, I top out most of the time at around 167 deg C & drops back down as low as 158 Deg C.  Any suggestions?

Joe

[gogo2520]

Hello jknightandkarr

Once you figure it out and do it several times you be able to do it in your sleep.

Here is what I use before I bought a cheap laser printer I used to take a print off my ink-jet printer to the library and have them make a couple of copies. But the paper was not right. I use to work at a printing company when I was younger and what they used to prof a copy of a page of a magazine was office gloss paper. That is the kind of paper I use now and i works perfect, only takes a few minutes to soak off the board when I am done ironing it and it holds the image just like photo paper. 
    Cleaning the board is very important. I buff the board with fine steel wool then scrub it with a scotch pad and a little bathroom cleanser then rinse it, dry it then wipe with some acid-tone to get any grease off.
    I use a very hot Iron, sometimes the paper turns a little brown, and pressing  hard, sometimes I rub the iron in a little at all four corners.  It doesn't really take that long maybe two minutes or so.  I use a small wad of paper for a ironing board. when I am done I can see a light outline of the print. Then I just slip int a dish of water and let it soak for a minuter or two, the paper all most falls of just have to make sure there is no paper stuck between the tracks. I scrub it with my fingers or some times with a scotch pad lightly.

that is it the board is know ready to be etched . works every time for me

                                      gogo

[jknightandkarr]

Office gloss paper huh?  Have to try it, providing my iron gets hot enough, I'll have to experiment.  I use very fine steel wool to clean mine, I tried using rubbing alcohol to clean the board.

Joe

[Hero999]

Well after putting the probe from my digital bbq therm under my iron for a while I think I may know my problem, according to my BBQ therm, I top out most of the time at around 167 deg C & drops back down as low as 158 Deg C.  Any suggestions?

Joe

If that's as hot as your iron can get then you need to get a hotter iron.

I was going to suggest that you check the voltage of the mains but the fact that the temperature is reaching 167

[jknightandkarr]

It clicks, no neon light, only a power indicator.

Joe

[Hero999]

Have you heard the element turn off again?

If so it means that the thermostat doesn't have a high enough heat setting.

[gogo2520]

I think I spent a whole 8 bucks for my Iron at walmart. works fine.
                                    gogo

[jknightandkarr]

Yeah I hear it click off. I get very rair spikes going justr above 170, but only lasts part of a second.

Joe

[Hero999]

Yes, you definitely need a better/hotter iron.