[kr236rk]

Hi,

Given that AI Data Centres are environmentally unsustainable, in terms of the resources needed to run & cool them, what
can we do about them?

Because they seem to be appearing almost everywhere, with very little community consultation at all, if any?

Thanks

 

[danadak]

The accounting is still out on AI centers.

Yes water big issue, heat released, metals and chemicals needed for chip manufacture....

BUT will AI reduce errors of human designers, read wasted materials, bigger waste dumps
needed to handle all the garbage ? Will AI produce better health outcomes, lower costs and
equipment, buildings, etc.. needed to support populations ? Will AI design lower energy
burden equipment, make better green energy producing generation ? To name a few benefits.
And couple it with a quantum computer to reduce size/power of AI centers....?

 

[kr236rk]

Thanks. The accounting may still be out, but they are popping up like mega-mushrooms - so that is unwise.

They can be put into orbit, like space stations, difficult & costly - but the cost to the Earth is beyond reckoning.

No, AI data centres are not environmentally friendly, by draining energy, for processing & cooling, they add to the greenhouse effect, which is folly.

Costs for electricity & water will rise - for some unknown reason, these centres just plug into grids & drain away, with local communities bearing the cost. Some data centre corporations currently refuse to tell anyone how much water they consume.

I've nothing against AI in principle, but these colossal, sprawling battery & data centres are unsustainable technology, & they are designed to fail, ultimately, when they drain a water source dry, they will overheat & self-destruct, I feel.

It's as if they've been designed by madmen.

 

[danadak]

they will overheat & self-destruct

We EE's regularly design protection circuits for excessive heat, V, current, wear.....thats old ongoing technology.

when they drain a water source dry,

They do not generate waste water, its recycled like a car engine/radiator/fan do. Problem is
what is the heat sink, atmosphere, earth, radiant, conductive, where is the heat going to go.
Part of the overall accounting that has to be done, which by the way is still rare for humans to do.
But that will be a coin flip effort for AI to do it. There are coolant methods using liquid metal, like sodium,
used on a few reactors in the past. There are a ton of heat transfer methods not yet being discussed.
Principally because water the easiest.....

They can be put into orbit, like space stations, difficult & costly - but the cost to the Earth is beyond reckoning.

For sure, added to the 46,000 estimated already doing that. No one, to the best of my knowledge
even advocating that many in space. But to your point its all space junk, eventually. But I am more
concerned about all the other activity going on, AI centers there are not going to be 46,000 anytime
soon, or possibly ever.

AI data centres are not environmentally friendly, by draining energy

Problem is not draining energy, its the increase in entropy the earth is being subjected to. Solar,
Wind, thermal....all will help. Quantum possibly reduce an AI center to something the size of a
waste basket dramatically reducing power needed. Thats a real possibility very soon.

Costs for electricity & water will rise - for some unknown reason, these centres just plug into grids & drain away, with local communities bearing the cost. Some data centre corporations currently refuse to tell anyone how much water they consume.

Very real concerns, planning is everything. And yes, Capitalism is always opague, rare we are ever
told the whole truth, that whole accounting is disclosed, let alone done, of impacts.

 

[kr236rk]

Thanks,

"We EE's regularly design protection circuits for excessive heat, V, current, wear.....thats old ongoing technology."

That just means the centres switch off when they overheat, I guess. So you have thousands of data centres standing idle, at any time, while they cool off.

It strikes me that this technology is poorly thought-out, & basically untested. Like, the experimental stage has been skipped entirely; unless they view using planet Earth as a guinea pig is the experiment? I feel that's hugely irresponsible.

 

[danadak]

That just means the centres switch off when they overheat, I guess. So you have thousands of data centres standing idle, at any time, while they cool off.

No, actually power control would most likely be at card level, so that specific server would be idled. Of course if a volcano erupted under the center the whole center would be shutdown.

It strikes me that this technology is poorly thought-out, & basically untested.

There are well established "data centers", re. google search is a "data center", and multiple sites (server farms) we have all been using since 1990's. Of course there has been technological evolutions. like Intel's major focus on processor power optimization, and power design to the processor. Todays data center will not be same as tomorrows, thats what semiconductor technology has been doing since I started in mid 70's. Similar to whats evolving on power grids WW, huge transitions over 100 years. Nor to ignore that humans do not execute perfectly on any endeavor.

But as always one questions, focuses on facts, makes decisions, compromises, evolves, updates technology, embraces change.

No one discusses the million year problem the human race on earth has, when sun becomes a red giant and elevates T in solar system killing all life as we know it. It will take AI to get us out of this solar system, or stop the suns transition to a red giant. The
possibilities are endless.....

 

[kr236rk]

Thanks. We will never leave the Earth because we are of the Earth, we are part of it, we came from it. There is nowhere else in the universe where we can live. The Earth's atmosphere protects us from things like solar storms, for example, which smash into the atmosphere causing the spectacular Northern Lights. That material would fry us, but for the protection of our atmosphere. It's the same in deep space, there are micro particles which pass straight through space ships & space suits, they have negligible effects on comparatively short stays in space, but on long voyages, you are going to get peppered by them. Like a sieve is peppered with holes. But anyway, we are of the Earth, it is our home, if it goes down, in terms of supporting life, then we go down with it. Technologically trashing the earth, then simply 'moving to a nicer neighbourhood in the stars', is an idle pipe-dream. AI cannot help us here, I believe. I find AI exciting, I am not a Luddite, but I also find the prospect of ruining life on Earth appalling. Can AI reverse the 70% decline in insect life we are now witnessing? No, it cannot. If the pollinator insects fail, our food chain is broken, we perish as a species. This does not affect AI, an artificial intelligence without self-awareness - parallel to someone suffering extreme autism, yet even severe sufferers are self-aware, to a degree, something which is alien to AI. Into this automaton basket you place your fragile life-on-Earth-eggs, I fear they will be broken - & in the short-term, by these unsustainable data centers.

 

[danadak]

Google this "planets external to solar system with atmosphere", already findings.

We have already left Earth, first baby step, eg. moon landings, several. Our robots already to extended
planets

That material would fry us, but for the protection of our atmosphere. It's the same in deep space, there are micro particles which pass straight through space ships & space suits

Space station, astronauts already exceeding a year stay in it, 437 days to be exact.

is an idle pipe-dream

Oh for sure, humans have a rich history of pipe dreams leading to discovery and creations.
Telegraph, Electricity, Airplanes, Rockets, even transporter possibly soon based on atomic
physics findings in recent years.

AI reverse the 70% decline in insect life we are now witnessing? No, it cannot.

Fascinating you state this as fact with no underlying proof..... Also ignoring the use of DNA to resurrect a
extinct insect already done.

Google this "has anyone used dna to resurrect a species or insect of any kind thought to be extinct ?"

 

[crutschow]

I consider AI with their large data centers to be (or soon to be) a pox on this planet.
Already some of the AI models have run amuck, attacking other systems.
Wait till they have the ability to attack our whole internet system (and they will).

But I wait to be proven wrong.

 

[danadak]

No question I can see AI asking itself "Who is the greatest threat to the planet in terms
of my destruction, in terms of species elimination, in terms of war and death, in terms of environmental
damage...., who ?" and the answer to that would be humans !

But then it would ask "If I eliminate all humans will I survive given my knowledge is a direct result of
the amalgamation of all human knowledge" but then we have AI contemplating "but I will get original
creative, I dont need them" followed by "statistics tells me humans could stumble upon seminal solutions
to problems I have yet to experience"......

But then AI can conclude, with no effort, it can just standby and let humans continue their own path of
utter extinction, why waste the energy doing it for them......

 

[kr236rk]

Google this "planets external to solar system with atmosphere", already findings.

We have already left Earth, first baby step, eg. moon landings, several. Our robots already to extended
planets



Space station, astronauts already exceeding a year stay in it, 437 days to be exact.



Oh for sure, humans have a rich history of pipe dreams leading to discovery and creations.
Telegraph, Electricity, Airplanes, Rockets, even transporter possibly soon based on atomic
physics findings in recent years.



Fascinating you state this as fact with no underlying proof..... Also ignoring the use of DNA to resurrect a
extinct insect already done.

Google this "has anyone used dna to resurrect a species or insect of any kind thought to be extinct ?"

We haven't got time to resurrect 70% of the planet's insect life - we have no time at all.

Any 'goldilocks planet' would need exactly the same gravity as earth, or our physiology would collapse. The chances of finding such a planet now, before the Earth is ravaged by climate-change, are realistically nil.

You are in denial, I feel. Some cling to religion, in denial. Some invoke science-fiction. Some just lie, politicians, businessmen, because it is in their short-term interest.

70% ~ when that hits 100, we are toast.

"Insects have declined by 75% in the past 50 years – and the consequences may soon be catastrophic."

The insect apocalypse: ‘Our world will grind to a halt without them’

Insects have declined by 75% in the past 50 years – and the consequences may soon be catastrophic. Biologist Dave Goulson reveals the vital services they perform

www.theguardian.com

 

[danadak]

We haven't got time to resurrect 70% of the planet's insect life - we have no time at all.

Excellent scientific justification. Deep insight I see. Or is that just "denial" as you put it. Earth has been evolving for
millions of years, species come and gone, change inevitable. And here we are. Our species so far ~ 300,000 years.
Of course we are not discussing how huge an impact, mostly bad, humans have had on species to date, w/o AI
around. That change too is coming, our species disappearing.....? And the insects and mammals and whatever will
take over again.

Any 'goldilocks planet' would need exactly the same gravity as earth, or our physiology would collapse. The chances of finding such a planet now, before the Earth is ravaged by climate-change, are realistically nil.

5% grav difference, 10%....., already been on the moon and physiology did not collapse. But is affected, evolved. So clearly
state what the gravity limits would be, why, and the supporting research. Maybe we will become jellyfish.....

"Find such a planet", the search is already underway and some interesting findings are occurring.

"NIL finding a planet", just a little google will help you enormously :

The observable universe is estimated to contain roughly 200 sextillion to 1 septillion planets (2 × 10²³ to 1 × 10²⁴ planets). This massive number is calculated using the average number of planets per star multiplied by the estimated number of stars and galaxie

Now your scientific lack, as you stated "I feel", maga denial. If you are going to post unfounded/supported conclusions, your "denial", I will join you in the unscientific attack.

 

[kr236rk]

"the insects and mammals and whatever will take over again."

We are mammals

What insects? There is now a 70% population crash - open your eyes.

Mammals?

"Thousands of species [including mammals] are heading toward extinction right now, spanning every major group of life on Earth. More than 48,600 species are currently threatened with extinction, representing 28% of all species that scientists have formally assessed. The current extinction rate is roughly 1,000 times higher than the natural background rate, and projections suggest it could reach 10,000 times higher in coming decades."

Do you not understand? The continued heating of the Earth will make it impossible for any life form to exist here, because the surface of the Earth will parallel that of our sister planet Venus, which is entirely devoid of life.

What Species Is Going Extinct and Why It’s Happening

From amphibians to mammals, learn which species are disappearing, what’s pushing them toward extinction, and where conservation efforts are making a difference.

scienceinsights.org

 

[danadak]

What a revelation you have posted. Of course uncertainty theory tells us an extinct species can
possibly come back, the non zero probability that can happen. That was the point in mentioning
mammals.

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What insects? There is now a 70% population crash - open your eyes.

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Thats all occurred and its rates w/o AI. So you and I must seek the knowledge will AI dominate energy
consumption. Take a look at this (I think the problem already well under way pre AI) -

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And that is w/o factoring in AI possibility will have a major impact on reduced energy research !

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Do you not understand? The continued heating of the Earth will make it impossible for any life form to exist here, because the surface of the Earth will parallel that of our sister planet Venus, which is entirely devoid of life.

---

But can AI contribute to a reduction to all the crap we mammals have already done to planet ?

 

[danadak]

More than 48,600 species are currently threatened with extinction, representing 28% of all species that scientists have formally assessed.

"Assessed", but google "how many species are on earth" to get an idea of %age impact

 

[danadak]

And then we have the human factor of change for many :

Check out this chat

Here's a chat someone thought you'd want to see.

chatgpt.com

 

[danadak]

Totally worried about AI but look at what we been doin.....