Claims re Energiser cells (AA)

[Suzy]

I note that Ever Ready is promoting its Energiser AA cells as "600 photos"
against Duracell's "80". Can this possibly be true. And if not, surely
legislation would prevent them from making this claim. I have always found
Duracell to be far superior so has the scene changed? Who has recent first
hand experience of any comparison?

 

[Larry]

Suzy wrote:
: I note that Ever Ready is promoting its Energiser AA cells as "600
: photos" against Duracell's "80". Can this possibly be true. And if
: not, surely legislation would prevent them from making this claim. I
: have always found Duracell to be far superior so has the scene
: changed? Who has recent first hand experience of any comparison?

Hi Suzy,

They are comparing Ever Ready AA Lithium Ion cells with Duracell
Alkaline cells. Totally different type of battery. It's call deceptive
advertising.

Likely if you compared both brand's Lithium Ion batteries, they would
both be around 600 photos.

Larry

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

I note that Ever Ready is promoting its Energiser AA cells as "600 photos"
against Duracell's "80". Can this possibly be true. And if not, surely
legislation would prevent them from making this claim. I have always found
Duracell to be far superior so has the scene changed? Who has recent first
hand experience of any comparison?

The Eveready in the ad is a Lithium based cell not a standard alkaline cell
of which the Duracell is.
This may explain the higher capacity.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Bob Parker]

Suzy wrote:
: I note that Ever Ready is promoting its Energiser AA cells as "600
: photos" against Duracell's "80". Can this possibly be true. And if
: not, surely legislation would prevent them from making this claim. I
: have always found Duracell to be far superior so has the scene
: changed? Who has recent first hand experience of any comparison?

Hi Suzy,

They are comparing Ever Ready AA Lithium Ion cells with Duracell
Alkaline cells. Totally different type of battery. It's call deceptive
advertising.

Likely if you compared both brand's Lithium Ion batteries, they would
both be around 600 photos.

Larry

If it's the ad I've seen, somewhere it says in small print that
Duracells are alkaline, to stay legal. Still deceptive though.
Aren't lithium ion batteries the rechargeable kind? I think (haven't
got time to research it) that primary lithium battery chemistry is
called 'lithium manganese' or something like that.
I've used Energizer lithium batteries in digital cameras and they
sure do have a lot of capacity.

Bob

 

[Suzy]

The Eveready in the ad is a Lithium based cell not a standard alkaline
cell of which the Duracell is.
This may explain the higher capacity.

Cheers,
Alan

Thanks all. That would explain it. If Duracell have a lithium product they
should complain that its comparing apples with oranges.

 

[John Tserkezis]

Thanks all. That would explain it. If Duracell have a lithium product they
should complain that its comparing apples with oranges.

But they never do. One side compares their alkalines with the other's
carbon-zinc.

All the while being careful to call the opposition "ordinary batteries".
A nice generic term that could mean anything...

 

[David L. Jones]

I note that Ever Ready is promoting its Energiser AA cells as "600 photos"
against Duracell's "80". Can this possibly be true. And if not, surely
legislation would prevent them from making this claim. I have always found
Duracell to be far superior so has the scene changed? Who has recent first
hand experience of any comparison?

Listen harder next time. They are comparing Lithium to Alkaline, and
are doing that to get back at Duracell who ran ad campaigns some time
back that did the same thing. The Duracell ads compared Duracell
Alkaline to Energizer's inferior "Super heavy Duty" carbon zinc. The
original ads didn't state that the "super heavy duty" batteries were
an inferior technology to Alkaline, so Energizer tried to sue them or
something. The result was that Duracell changed their ads to include
text down the bottom of the screen explaining (in a roundabout way)
that it wasn't a valid comparison.

Energizer have done a similar thing here. Of course they leave out
important details like Lithium is a lot more expensive than Alkaline.
The average punter doesn't know the difference and gets sucked in by
the ads. Very clever marketing.

Dave.

 

[Bob Parker]

Energizer have done a similar thing here. Of course they leave out
important details like Lithium is a lot more expensive than Alkaline.
The average punter doesn't know the difference and gets sucked in by
the ads. Very clever marketing.

Dave.

Energizer lithiums in the supermarkets are about the same price as
Energizer 2.5AH or Duracell 2.65AH NiMH, with only a bit more discharge
capacity ... but only usable once.
I've always wondered who buys them and why?

Bob

 

[James]

Energizer lithiums in the supermarkets are about the same price as
Energizer 2.5AH or Duracell 2.65AH NiMH, with only a bit more discharge
capacity ... but only usable once.
I've always wondered who buys them and why?

Bob

Probably lots of people, but for all the wrong reasons. They may be useful
if you only used your camera (or similar) infrequently. Any normal NiNH
cells would have self discharged long before the Lithium ones and recharging
may be an inconvenience. My guess though is that the average punter sees the
pretty packaging promoting the use for digital cameras and other high drain
devices and just buy them without thinking.

James

 

[David L. Jones]

Energizer lithiums in the supermarkets are about the same price as
Energizer 2.5AH or Duracell 2.65AH NiMH, with only a bit more discharge
capacity ... but only usable once.
I've always wondered who buys them and why?

They have a niche market for long self life seldom used products that
must be "ready to go" when needed. e.g. torches, GPS receivers, UHF
radios. You'll also often get longer operational life than NiMH, and
that can be handy in many situations. They also have benefits in low
temperature environments and are lighter in weight, so are popular
with bushwalkers and climbers for example who count grams and might
have to use them in freezing alpine conditions.
As for cameras, if you only take a few hundred shots a year then they
are actually a pretty good choice for that.

Being "ready to go" without ever having to remember to charge them,
and longer potential life under more adverse conditions are very
useful benefits that can (for some) far outweigh the extra cost or
lack of eco-friendliness.

Also, be careful when you start comparing capacity, it varies a LOT
with temperature and load. At very low temperatures the Lithium can
have several hundred percent the capacity of an Alkaine and may
actually be lower in cost if you talk $$/Wh

Dave.

 

[Bob Parker]

They have a niche market for long self life seldom used products that
must be "ready to go" when needed. e.g. torches, GPS receivers, UHF
radios. You'll also often get longer operational life than NiMH, and
that can be handy in many situations. They also have benefits in low
temperature environments and are lighter in weight, so are popular
with bushwalkers and climbers for example who count grams and might
have to use them in freezing alpine conditions.
As for cameras, if you only take a few hundred shots a year then they
are actually a pretty good choice for that.

Being "ready to go" without ever having to remember to charge them,
and longer potential life under more adverse conditions are very
useful benefits that can (for some) far outweigh the extra cost or
lack of eco-friendliness.

Also, be careful when you start comparing capacity, it varies a LOT
with temperature and load. At very low temperatures the Lithium can
have several hundred percent the capacity of an Alkaine and may
actually be lower in cost if you talk $$/Wh

Dave.

Good points. Lithiums have formidable shelf life and operational
temperature range, as well as handling severe loads.
I used them in my Olympus digital cameras when the memory backup
super caps died and they'd lose all their settings the moment the
battery was disconnected, to minimise battery swaps. I really noticed
the drop in weight.
Then I found a source of backup caps and replaced them, and went
back to using NiMH.
9V lithium batteries would be good in smoke detectors which are hard
to get at.

Bob

 

[James]

Good points. Lithiums have formidable shelf life and operational
temperature range, as well as handling severe loads.
I used them in my Olympus digital cameras when the memory backup super
caps died and they'd lose all their settings the moment the battery was
disconnected, to minimise battery swaps. I really noticed the drop in
weight.
Then I found a source of backup caps and replaced them, and went back
to using NiMH.
9V lithium batteries would be good in smoke detectors which are hard to
get at.

Bob

And maybe good in mutlimeters. I seem to be forever replacing alkalines, but
then again perhaps I should remember to turn them to "off" before putting
them back in the case.

James

 

[David Segall]

Energizer lithiums in the supermarkets are about the same price as
Energizer 2.5AH or Duracell 2.65AH NiMH, with only a bit more discharge
capacity ... but only usable once.
I've always wondered who buys them and why?

I bought them because my experience with rechargeable batteries has
been bad. They seem to need recharging even if I don't use them and
their capacity seems to deteriorate significantly over time. This
applies to my NiMh laptop batteries and the rechargeable NiCads and
Alkaline batteries I use in various computer peripherals, cameras and
torches. If I get 600 photographs, probably two years worth, I will be
delighted with my ten dollar purchase.

 

[David L. Jones]

And maybe good in mutlimeters. I seem to be forever replacing alkalines, but
then again perhaps I should remember to turn them to "off" before putting
them back in the case.

Or simply get one that has auto-power-off.

Dave.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Thanks all. That would explain it. If Duracell have a lithium product they
should complain that its comparing apples with oranges.

**Why? Duracell have been comparing their alkalines with the much cheaper,
Eveready carbon/zinc cells for years.

Trevor Wilson

 

[James]

Or simply get one that has auto-power-off.

Dave.

A Fluke 73 and a Fluke 19, they both have a power off feature, or more
appropriately a sleep feature.

James

 

[timbo]

A Fluke 73 and a Fluke 19, they both have a power off feature, or more
appropriately a sleep feature.

James

Ive got the same two meters. the 73 doesn't go through nearly as many
batteries as the 19 though. the 19 also seems to crash alot - it'll lock up
randomly, maybe a couple of times a month & i'll have to switch it off & on
again. never happens with the 73.

the 73's probably got a better sleep feature than the 19 i'd guess, they
both get about the same amount of use.

cheers,

timbo.

 

[James]

Ive got the same two meters. the 73 doesn't go through nearly as many
batteries as the 19 though. the 19 also seems to crash alot - it'll lock
up
randomly, maybe a couple of times a month & i'll have to switch it off &
on
again. never happens with the 73.

the 73's probably got a better sleep feature than the 19 i'd guess, they
both get about the same amount of use.

cheers,

timbo.

 

[James]

Ive got the same two meters. the 73 doesn't go through nearly as many
batteries as the 19 though. the 19 also seems to crash alot - it'll lock
up
randomly, maybe a couple of times a month & i'll have to switch it off &
on
again. never happens with the 73.

the 73's probably got a better sleep feature than the 19 i'd guess, they
both get about the same amount of use.

cheers,

timbo.

Oops...A bit quick on the send button.

I prefer the 19 to the 73 for most things. I've never had any problems with
the 19 locking up or anything silly like that, and believe it's exceptional
for the price (although maybe not a "proper" Fluke meter). The one thing
that does give me the shits about the 19 is the lack of beep on diode check.
I much prefer the short beep for roughly checking diodes & transistors
without having to look at the display.

James

 

[David L. Jones]

Oops...A bit quick on the send button.

I prefer the 19 to the 73 for most things. I've never had any problems with
the 19 locking up or anything silly like that, and believe it's exceptional
for the price (although maybe not a "proper" Fluke meter). The one thing
that does give me the shits about the 19 is the lack of beep on diode check.
I much prefer the short beep for roughly checking diodes & transistors
without having to look at the display.

The 19 appeared to be a fantastic value-for-money meter when they
introduced it for the asia-pacific region many years back, it was not
sold anywhere else that I am aware of, it was a trial to see if a
cheap Chinese made Fluke would sell.

Every single unit I have used (at least a dozen of them) have died
either partially or completely. Horror stories abound, the failure
rate was massive, I'm surprised there are any left that are still 100%
functional. It also had a common bug/fault that drained the batteries
flat in no time.
It didn't last on the market very long, and was replaced by the 110
series.

Dave.