competitive bid procedures?

[Charlie E.]

Hi Everyone,
Ok, this is a general question, and none of you may have dealt with
this type of thing, but I thought that I would ask...

As you may know, I also do A/V systems as part of my business.
Actually, most of our profits come from that side of things. Now, I am
running into a situation that I am not quite sure what to do with.

The city where I live has just posted an RFQ for a new sound system.
This is replacing the one I put in a few years ago. They tore out the
old one when they renovated this summer. The problem is that the RFQ
basically is twenty pages of legalese and boilerplate on who and how
to prepare the bid, but the actual "This is what we want you to do."
part is only a list of equipment. No connection diagrams, no
equipment locations, no performance specifications at all! What I am
trying to figure out is, is this thing even legal? Have any of you
dealt with a contract that doesn't specify what needs to be done
adequately?

Thanks!
Charlie

 

[tm]

Hi Everyone,
Ok, this is a general question, and none of you may have dealt with
this type of thing, but I thought that I would ask...

As you may know, I also do A/V systems as part of my business.
Actually, most of our profits come from that side of things. Now, I am
running into a situation that I am not quite sure what to do with.

The city where I live has just posted an RFQ for a new sound system.
This is replacing the one I put in a few years ago. They tore out the
old one when they renovated this summer. The problem is that the RFQ
basically is twenty pages of legalese and boilerplate on who and how
to prepare the bid, but the actual "This is what we want you to do."
part is only a list of equipment. No connection diagrams, no
equipment locations, no performance specifications at all! What I am
trying to figure out is, is this thing even legal? Have any of you
dealt with a contract that doesn't specify what needs to be done
adequately?

Thanks!
Charlie

Is there a pre-bid conference?


tm

 

[Charlie E.]

Is there a pre-bid conference?


tm

No, not for this one. You have to contact the guy managing the bids
to get an individual walkthrough of the site. What is even more fun,
is that, according to the equipment list, several components from the
original system, like the ceiling speakers, are listed in the RFQ as
"Already In Place" Actually, they were taken out, and will now have
to be re-installed! As I remarked to some others, I could buy all
this equipment, plie it in the corner of the room, and I would meet
the contract specifications!

"Oh, you wanted me to CONNECT this equipment too! Gee, I wish you had
put that in the contract!" ;-)

Charlie

 

[Rich Webb]

Hi Everyone,
Ok, this is a general question, and none of you may have dealt with
this type of thing, but I thought that I would ask...

As you may know, I also do A/V systems as part of my business.
Actually, most of our profits come from that side of things. Now, I am
running into a situation that I am not quite sure what to do with.

The city where I live has just posted an RFQ for a new sound system.
This is replacing the one I put in a few years ago. They tore out the
old one when they renovated this summer. The problem is that the RFQ
basically is twenty pages of legalese and boilerplate on who and how
to prepare the bid, but the actual "This is what we want you to do."
part is only a list of equipment. No connection diagrams, no
equipment locations, no performance specifications at all! What I am
trying to figure out is, is this thing even legal? Have any of you
dealt with a contract that doesn't specify what needs to be done
adequately?

The ones I'm familiar with have a process for interested bidders to
submit questions on or before a specified date/time. The questions
(possibly redacted) and answers are then sent out to all interested
bidders. Sometimes the process results in a revised RFQ.

It may be that they intend to do this in two (or more?) stages, with the
equipment procurement separate from system design and installation.

As tm mentioned, there ought to be a bidder's conference. At the very
least, a contracting officer to contact.

 

[Charlie E.]

Submit a bid for the equipment, with optional line items for
installation, wiring, whatever.

Or just for the equipment, with a clear statement that that's all
that's included. If they miss it and give you the contract, then the
change orders begin...

John

Oh, that is Evil, EEEVVVVIIIILLLL!

I like it!

Charlie

 

[Charlie E.]

The ones I'm familiar with have a process for interested bidders to
submit questions on or before a specified date/time. The questions
(possibly redacted) and answers are then sent out to all interested
bidders. Sometimes the process results in a revised RFQ.

It may be that they intend to do this in two (or more?) stages, with the
equipment procurement separate from system design and installation.

As tm mentioned, there ought to be a bidder's conference. At the very
least, a contracting officer to contact.

The fun part of this is, on the original sound system, they did it the
exact same way. I told them then what the right way was to do it, and
even offered to help out this time, but they wouldn't let me.

Charlie

 

[tm]

The fun part of this is, on the original sound system, they did it the
exact same way. I told them then what the right way was to do it, and
even offered to help out this time, but they wouldn't let me.

Charlie

If you had helped, you would be ineligible to bid.

tm

 

[Charlie E.]

If you had helped, you would be ineligible to bid.

tm

Probably, but then we would still have gotten a good system. I am a
citizen first, then a businessman...

Charlie

 

[Charlie E.]

In the boilerplate legalese section, is there any text that deals with
clarification of specifications?
I suggest you call them, tell them of the problem, and ask them what
they want you to do. Play dumb.

Actually, the first question is:
Do you think you will have any competition on the Bid?
I know times are tough, so maybe there will be.
In which case, some a-hole will low-ball it and there'll be no prize
anyway.

But if you want to go for it, it is not your fault the RFQ is
defective.
Bid what it says. The Buyers options are then, do a bunch of change
orders, or re-let the RFQ.
If you bid it the way it is "supposed" to be done, you may not
(probably not?) get the award.

Best of luck!!
-mpm

Ok, but there is the second problem - the equipment that is on the
list! It is all top-of-the-line, gold plated, everything including
the kitchen sink type of stuff for a council chamber in a city of 35K!

70" LCD screens, Crestron control system, RGBHV switching (to WHAT?
from WHAT?) DSP based mixers. Basically, the guy must have asked some
friends what type of equipment he should include, and put it in. Much
of it doesn't make much sense...

BTW, did I mention that the rest of the renovation is complete? What
ever conduits, if any, they diegned to put in is what you will have to
work with. The design documents didn't really specify them...

Charlie

 

[Nico Coesel]

Ok, but there is the second problem - the equipment that is on the
list! It is all top-of-the-line, gold plated, everything including
the kitchen sink type of stuff for a council chamber in a city of 35K!

70" LCD screens, Crestron control system, RGBHV switching (to WHAT?
from WHAT?) DSP based mixers. Basically, the guy must have asked some
friends what type of equipment he should include, and put it in. Much
of it doesn't make much sense...

BTW, did I mention that the rest of the renovation is complete? What
ever conduits, if any, they diegned to put in is what you will have to
work with. The design documents didn't really specify them...

Sounds like a recipy for a dissaster. Are you sure you want to make an
offer? I'd give them a call and ask for a tour through the building.
This might give you a chance to meet people who have some say in what
needs to be installed.

 

[Raveninghorde]

Ok, but there is the second problem - the equipment that is on the
list! It is all top-of-the-line, gold plated, everything including
the kitchen sink type of stuff for a council chamber in a city of 35K!

70" LCD screens, Crestron control system, RGBHV switching (to WHAT?
from WHAT?) DSP based mixers. Basically, the guy must have asked some
friends what type of equipment he should include, and put it in. Much
of it doesn't make much sense...

BTW, did I mention that the rest of the renovation is complete? What
ever conduits, if any, they diegned to put in is what you will have to
work with. The design documents didn't really specify them...

Charlie

Tender people don't like smart arses. mpm is right bid what they asked
for with a $/hr for work outside the contract specification.

If you want offer a second bid using your preferred equipment as a one
to one replacement for the stuff they asked for.

The bid should go to the lowest price for a compliant offers. Try to
quote for what they need rather than what they want is a sure fire way
not to win.

 

[josephkk]

Ok, but there is the second problem - the equipment that is on the
list! It is all top-of-the-line, gold plated, everything including
the kitchen sink type of stuff for a council chamber in a city of 35K!

70" LCD screens, Crestron control system, RGBHV switching (to WHAT?
from WHAT?) DSP based mixers. Basically, the guy must have asked some
friends what type of equipment he should include, and put it in. Much
of it doesn't make much sense...

BTW, did I mention that the rest of the renovation is complete? What
ever conduits, if any, they diegned to put in is what you will have to
work with. The design documents didn't really specify them...

Charlie

A couple of guesses at this point: 1. the fix is in and some council
members cousin gets the bid anyway. 2. some idiot went to some fancy
shmancy home theater outfit and asked for the best of several different
kinds of equipment without any regard that they might not be used
together.

?-)

 

[Charlie E.]

A couple of guesses at this point: 1. the fix is in and some council
members cousin gets the bid anyway. 2. some idiot went to some fancy
shmancy home theater outfit and asked for the best of several different
kinds of equipment without any regard that they might not be used
together.

?-)

No, it is worse. I sent in an email to the council complaining about
all this, and the city manager (through the finance director...)
responded - to the council, not to me! - that audio/video systems were
just commondity items, with no real differentiation between different
vendors, so just posting an equipment list is the best way to get a
quote...

This is wrong on so many level, it just makes me want to cry!

Charlie

 

[Nico Coesel]

No, it is worse. I sent in an email to the council complaining about
all this, and the city manager (through the finance director...)
responded - to the council, not to me! - that audio/video systems were
just commondity items, with no real differentiation between different
vendors, so just posting an equipment list is the best way to get a
quote...

This is wrong on so many level, it just makes me want to cry!

This really is sad. Who elected these clowns? The worst thing is that
they probably go ahead and end up spending a lot of community money on
stuff that won't work.

 

[Nial Stewart]

No, it is worse. I sent in an email to the council complaining about

all this, and the city manager (through the finance director...)
responded - to the council, not to me! - that audio/video systems were
just commondity items, with no real differentiation between different
vendors, so just posting an equipment list is the best way to get a
quote...

This is wrong on so many level, it just makes me want to cry!
Charlie

Make sure they have your details for when it doesn't work.

Then charge initial rate * 1.5 to sort it out for them.


Nial.

 

[tm]

Make sure they have your details for when it doesn't work.

Then charge initial rate * 1.5 to sort it out for them.


Nial.

You really don't understand government. They never make a mistake.


tm

 

[tm]

That's just so wrong! They never ADMIT to making a mistake.

You're right. I sit corrected.


tm