[Winfield Hill]

Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:

'3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?

MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?

BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?

'2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?

and etc...

I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
favorite candidates are solicited.

 

[Hammy]

Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:

'3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?

MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?

BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?

'2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?

and etc...

I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
favorite candidates are solicited.

NPN - BC817
http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC817_BC817W_BC337_5.pdf

PNP Complement - BC807

http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC807_BC807W_BC327_5.pdf

Jelly beans about the same price as 3904-06's

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

Hi, Win!

BCX70, BCX71; beta graded!

2N7002, as sub for BJT
Hah!

BFT25, as a transistor and as a diode. It's a better
pA diode than a PAD1.

Yep, very small die.

BFS17, fast but not too fast.

What, no PNP equivalent?

I've got BFT92 and BFT93 in the table.
How does the BFT25 compare to the BFT92?

 

[Winfield Hill]

Jim Thompson wrote...

'2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes
(dating to my youth . I don't know of a complement.

I remember in the old days we were told these were
gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
same specs. But are they still gold doped?

Do IC fabs often use gold doping? (Yes, I know a
designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
transistors we should know about?

 

[Winfield Hill]

Hammy wrote...

NPN - BC817
http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC817_BC817W_BC337_5.pdf

PNP Complement - BC807
http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC807_BC807W_BC327_5.pdf

Jelly beans about the same price as 3904-06's

Yep, and good for higher currents.
Nice beta curves at low Ic.

 

[Fred Bartoli]

Winfield Hill a écrit :

Jim Thompson wrote...

I remember in the old days we were told these were
gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
same specs. But are they still gold doped?

Do IC fabs often use gold doping? (Yes, I know a
designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
transistors we should know about?

The 2369 complementary is 4208/4258/5771, all sorted from the same
process (National DB), and Jim should remind that I already told that
him once
Still gold doped according to the '96 National DB.

I like the 3904/3906 because of their small geometry.
But when in need of higher beta the BC547/557-847/857 in B or C grade
are good.
For real low current, I like the 5087/5089.

On the other end of the current scale, the Diodes/Zetex ZTX/FMMT618/718
family are real good, but not within Joerg's budget.

BTW, Diodes has extremely interesting MOS/BJT combos (DMB53/54 in real
small package) which have well controlled threshold voltage and that I'm
designing in, right now, for exactly that reason.

 

[Martin Riddle]

Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:

'3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?

MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?

BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?

'2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?

and etc...

I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
favorite candidates are solicited.

Just as common as the 2n39xx : 2n4401 & 2n4403

Cheers

 

[Winfield Hill]

Martin Riddle wrote...

Just as common as the 2n39xx : 2n4401 & 2n4403

Yep, those are in there.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Here's what I have so far in the condensed table:

NPN PNP
TO-92 SOT-23 TO-92 SOT-23
2N3904 MMBT3904 2N3906 MMBT3906
2N4401 MMBT4401 2N4403 MMBT4403
BC337 BC817 BC327 BC807
2N5089 MMBT5089 2N5087 MMBT5087
BC547C BC847C BC557C BC857C
MPSA14 MMBTA14 MPSA64 MMBTA64
ZTX618 FMMT618 ZTX718 FMMT718
PN2369 MMBT2369 2N5771 MMBT5771
2N5550 MMBT5550 2N5401 MMBT5401
MPSA42 MMBTA42 MPSA92 MMBTA92
MPS5179 BFS17
BFT92 BFT93
TIP142 TIP147

with performance details in columns off to the right.

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Original-flavor TTL is still gold doped. But Schottky versions don't
need storage control (lifetime killing) doping.

Wasn't it the 74H series that featured gold doping?
Burnt a lot of power and had a meager effect?

Naturally, CMOS doesn't have saturation in the bipolar sense... quite
a God-send for many of my designs.

and also lucky because these CMOS guys don't like gold in their clean rooms.

IIRC there once was an advertising war wrt gold metallization
in the area of RF power transistors that was not welcomed by
the people who would run a few LDMOS wafers now & then on a line
that normally made 74ACxx.




Not sot-23 but sot-223: BFG31 by NXP. Quite nice medium power RF PNP.
There are many good NPNs, but PNPs are scarce.

BFR93/BFT93 are OK, too.

NEC NE688xx for low 1/f noise. May not be really better than some
others, but at least 1/f is specified at all.

BC850/BC860 as the low noise members of the BC847/48/49/50
and BC857/58/59/60 families.
Fit most sockets, hmmm pads of the other family members, too.

FMMT 634TA npn Darlington ZETEX/Diodes, Inc.
FMMT 734TA pnp Darlington


Gerhard

 

[Fred Bartoli]

Jim Thompson a écrit :

I do recall you saying that, but that's not what I find.

2N5771 is made from Process 65, called a "complementary" process to
Process 21, which IS gold-doped. That doesn't necessarily mean
Process 65 is gold-doped.

You should also recall that you asked me that very same question and
that I answered, it's written, black on white, in my '86 National databook:
Process 65 is an overlay, double diffused, ***gold dopped***, silicon
epitaxial device. Complement to process 21.

Same for process, 21.

I do know for a fact that PNP's made in a gold-doped TTL process have
absolutely crappy beta's as in ~1.

You were saying that, too...

That's how I won a coffee bet with Tom Frederiksen... I solved that
problem and put useable PNP's on a gold-doped TTL process, see the
"Thompson" current mirror configuration at...

.... and that too...

And you finished by something like, one learns everyday...

Maybe no so, or is it that one forget everyday too? ;-)

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

Here's what I have so far in the condensed table:

NPN PNP
TO-92 SOT-23 TO-92 SOT-23
2N3904 MMBT3904 2N3906 MMBT3906
2N4401 MMBT4401 2N4403 MMBT4403
BC337 BC817 BC327 BC807
2N5089 MMBT5089 2N5087 MMBT5087
BC547C BC847C BC557C BC857C
MPSA14 MMBTA14 MPSA64 MMBTA64
ZTX618 FMMT618 ZTX718 FMMT718
PN2369 MMBT2369 2N5771 MMBT5771
2N5550 MMBT5550 2N5401 MMBT5401
MPSA42 MMBTA42 MPSA92 MMBTA92
MPS5179 BFS17
BFT92 BFT93
TIP142 TIP147

with performance details in columns off to the right.

MPSA06 MMBTA06 PZTA06 MPSA56 MMBTA56 PZTA56 (TO-92 SOT-23 SOT-223)

MJE180-182 MJE170-172 (TO-225AA)

2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)

Figured that some power types should be added as well...

Paul

 

[Winfield Hill]

Gerhard Hoffmann wrote...

Not sot-23 but sot-223: BFG31 by NXP. Quite nice medium power RF PNP.
There are many good NPNs, but PNPs are scarce.

BFR93/BFT93 are OK, too.

NEC NE688xx for low 1/f noise. May not be really better than some
others, but at least 1/f is specified at all.

BC850/BC860 as the low noise members of the BC847/48/49/50
and BC857/58/59/60 families.
Fit most sockets, hmmm pads of the other family members, too.

FMMT 634TA npn Darlington ZETEX/Diodes, Inc.
FMMT 734TA pnp Darlington

Excellent.

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

Are you showing the BFT92 as an NPN? Or is it a posting wrap
artifact? It's a PNP.

Oops! Good catch, I meant BFR93 for the NPN. Thanks!

Packaged transistors with Ft's much above 1 GHz are hard to use...
they tend to oscillate in any circuit that's not intended to be an
oscillator. PHEMTs on the other hand usually behave pretty well.

Even with damping resistors? E.g., EF outputs look
like an inductor, due to the falling beta (assuming
a low source impedance). L = Rs / 2pi fT, above
the breakpoint frequency, f = fT r_e / Rs. That
output inductance resonates with capacitive loads,
but a damping resistor can keep Q = 1 max.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Paul E. Schoen wrote...

MPSA06 MMBTA06 PZTA06 MPSA56 MMBTA56 PZTA56 (TO-92 SOT-23 SOT-223)
MJE180-182 MJE170-172 (TO-225AA)
2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)

Figured that some power types should be added as well...

Good, good.

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

Are you going to mention MMICS somewhere else? Some of them make
radical wideband amps, even pulse amplifiers, so are options to
replace discretes and opamps. They tend to be very stable.

OK, we're fans as well, they'll go into 2x.

 

[Hammy]

Here's what I have so far in the condensed table:

NPN PNP
TO-92 SOT-23 TO-92 SOT-23
2N3904 MMBT3904 2N3906 MMBT3906
2N4401 MMBT4401 2N4403 MMBT4403
BC337 BC817 BC327 BC807
2N5089 MMBT5089 2N5087 MMBT5087
BC547C BC847C BC557C BC857C
MPSA14 MMBTA14 MPSA64 MMBTA64
ZTX618 FMMT618 ZTX718 FMMT718
PN2369 MMBT2369 2N5771 MMBT5771
2N5550 MMBT5550 2N5401 MMBT5401
MPSA42 MMBTA42 MPSA92 MMBTA92
MPS5179 BFS17
BFT92 BFT93
TIP142 TIP147

with performance details in columns off to the right.

Here's a couple of On Semi's low Vce sat bjt's.They are a little
pricey but still cheaper then diodes comparable FMMT series. The only
reason I have them is Newark puts them on sale time to time like right
now I see.


NSS40201LT1G - NPN 40V 4A SOT-23

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NSS40201L-D.PDF

Complement

NSS40200LT1G- -PNP 40V 4A SOT-23

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NSS40200L-D.PDF

Two more of On semis low Vce sat bjt's I have are below . They are
SOT-223 though. Reasonably priced to.

NJT4031N - NPN 40V 3A SOT-23

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NJT4031N.PDF

Complement

NJT4030P - PNP 40V 3A SOT-23

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NJT4030P-D.PDF

 

[Tim Williams]

2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)

Eww-w-w-w-w! At least MJ15001/2. MJ15031/2 are even better. Actually, if
you must have TO-3, anything MJ150xx is good. Almost anything good comes in
TO-247's these days, TO-3 really is ancient now.

Speaking of power transistors: high voltage switches - MJE13003 (~1.5A, used
in CFLs), MJE18009 and such (450V, >5A), and usually available in fullpak
too (MJFx), plus a whole slough of Japanese equivalents (off the top of my
head, 2SC2625, 3306, 4020, etc.). Fairchild and a bunch of others have
their lines of second sources and similar parts. Maybe not as useful for
textbook examples (where you'd rather show a stately MOSFETs handling an
SMPS, not those fifty cent whore BJTs! ).

Other power transistors include TIP29-32, obviously, plus the old
TIP112/120/etc. darlingtons, good for linear apps and slow switching.

2SD1273 is a superbeta power transistor, 2A 30V full pack. Really odd find,
and not all that useful, but it does make an excellent replacement for a
darlington when you need low Vce(sat)!

For general high beta, 2N5088 is jellybean. Not really superbeta, but up
there. I think one of those BC's Win started off with, BC547C, comes in
obscenely high beta as well (the C grade).

I recently looked up some highish frequency jellybean sorts of transistors,
but now I can't find where I put the list...

Tim

 

[Winfield Hill]

Hammy wrote...

Here's a couple of On Semi's low Vce sat bjt's.They are a little
pricey but still cheaper then diodes comparable FMMT series. The only
reason I have them is Newark puts them on sale time to time like right
now I see.

NSS40201LT1G - NPN 40V 4A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NSS40201L-D.PDF

Complement
NSS40200LT1G- -PNP 40V 4A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NSS40200L-D.PDF

Two more of On semis low Vce sat bjt's I have are below.
They are SOT-223 though. Reasonably priced to.
NJT4031N - NPN 40V 3A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NJT4031N.PDF

Complement
NJT4030P - PNP 40V 3A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NJT4030P-D.PDF

Very nice, I like the ON Semi parts, and the way they go
out of their way to give you decent datasheets. Unlike
Zetex, who often makes you do with one page.

Have you noticed the way these parts present you with
Rds(on) values? Like 80 m-ohms for the NSS40200?
I like that. Sure, trying to compare to a MOSFET, but
hey, characterizing the high-current saturation-voltage
upswing as a resistance is really the right way to go.

Doing a quick look right now, I couldn't even find a sot-23
MOSFET with Rds(on) = 0.08 ohms or less (they were bigger),
let alone one going for $0.90 each, qty 100. Nice.

 

[Okkim Atnarivik]

: On 31 Jan 2010 16:10:06 -0800, Winfield Hill
: >
: > Even with damping resistors? E.g., EF outputs look
: > like an inductor, due to the falling beta (assuming
: > a low source impedance). L = Rs / 2pi fT, above
: > the breakpoint frequency, f = fT r_e / Rs. That
: > output inductance resonates with capacitive loads,
: > but a damping resistor can keep Q = 1 max.
:
: like to oscillate with hot transistors, like the zillion-GHz NEC parts
: for example. By the time you add enough base resistance to calm them
: down, you may as well have used a slower transistor.

There is one place for those fast transistor, tranquilized
by GHz damping circuits close to the transistor: when you need very
low noise at intermediate frequencies. As an instance, the voltage
noise of the SiGe BFP650 can be less than 1/4 nanovolt. An example
spectrum is found in fig.4 of www.24.fi/kiviranta/xeus/vtt_ltd13pap_f.pdf
(now out in AIP Conf. Proc. vol. 1185) . NESG3031 is another nice
device in this respect.

Regards,
Mikko