resistor only ring modulator

[loadhead]

Here is the Falstad link.

https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWcMBMcUHYMGZIA4UA2ATmIxABZykFIQEBTAWjDACgAnEbNb7Q7r354oyOJ0F00InnTAYBc+GwDuk8AvAoR8xaq07NYbSBQI9YQinAUKp8zbuZr1gCYMAZgEMArgBsAFyY-BldwUToYSHZLa1YXDDjjewE3T19A4NDwyKhYdjV4lINiyH1jETMBMFtS8uTnEsaywpNGmqdEqHK2roruQhEWkuF1UeHG6XUp4dlTfG48JwWyrkmHSbwh+dXFpwdsJdMt0TRdikJ9gQoeUrFzy+ORG5cTpXE1F6e97+Gvqp+AN2YGILg2KCuojAyjUKAhxXWei4INelXh2m20I+pnRJwBGO6sI2eK6BImpI2pJW+kOkNp8yGNKOBPp2H4hJ+bIEcy5HJ57MavPJ1l5m0ZADdKMRUg4KNLfqIKHRaLlItAEGxJbpitqyYrlXAInkNYVNASUb9ymaHBagfoLpC5TK9J9HgSnZbDoIQAAxCC5FUgFggABqAHtAl4AOYMNhe7AQP1GwPB8ORmNsIA

So this is an AND gate, that operates on scalar signals. (So the output is only on, when both voltages are applied.)

When one power is on, I short down the other operands voltage divider's R2 resistor, when it is also on, then the voltage supplied there cancels the short down its resistor.

That's what is supposed to happen, but Falstad actually stuffs it up! It does look as though the short is stopped, but the amps are wrong on the output, and it seems to just add up, instead of being an and gate.

I can probably get it to work in the sim, by having 1 power instead of 2 and operate it with switches, but this thing actually is pure voltage controlled and shows that Falstad is hiding things from you about voltage and resistance and multiple pipe-ways.

So watch out for ol' Falstad, there's strange RC circuits that will not respond correctly, because they haven't computed the voltage properly!!!!

 

[Harald Kapp]

So watch out for ol' Falstad,

I'd say watch out for @loadhead. The sim you linked to shows a circuit that behaves exactly as expected.

So this is an AND gate, that operates on scalar signals. (So the output is only on, when both voltages are applied.)

Makes no sense. When you remove one of the batteries, te other will still suply power to the circuit - only less than 2 batteries do.

When one power is on, I short down the other operands voltage divider's R2 resistor, when it is also on, then the voltage supplied there cancels the short down its resistor.

Where is R2? You haven't labeled the elements in your simulation so it is impossible for us to follow your line of reasoning.

If you really want us to understand your problem, show us the behavior of the circuit in the different configurations (with differentz power sources on and off).

 

[loadhead]

I'd say watch out for @loadhead. The sim you linked to shows a circuit that behaves exactly as expected.

My prac tests are different than falstad's reports on my output wire.

Makes no sense. When you remove one of the batteries, the other will still supply power to the circuit - only less than 2 batteries do.

The falstad report is correct for one input voltage on.
But its incorrect for both on, when both are on it shouldnt take the opposition short away because the voltage of the other side blocks it, so there should be more of an amp result with both on than its giving me.

Where is R2? You haven't labeled the elements in your simulation so it is impossible for us to follow your line of reasoning.

R2 is the short from + to - which is dividing the volts by 10 into the system, for both operands.

Shit! I just noticed an error in system!!! ill have another link. (sorry my apologies there is a mistake in it!!)
Nu link being supplied now.

If you really want us to understand your problem, show us the behavior of the circuit in the different configurations (with different power sources on and off).

The voltages are variable in the sim, they are the two faders on a list on the right part of the interface.

Nu link.

https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWcMBMcUHYMGZIA4UA2ATmIxABZykFIQEBTAWjDACgAnEbNb7Q7r354oyOJ0F00InnTAYBc+GwDuk8AvAoR8xaq07NYbSBQI9YQinAUKp8zbuZr1gCYMAZgEMArgBsAFyY-BldwUToYSHZLa1YXDDjjewE3T19A4NDwyKhYdjV4lINiyH1jETMBMFtS8uTnEsaywpNGmqdEqHK2roruQhEWkuF1UeHG6XUp4dlTfG48JwWyrkmHSbwh+dXFpwdsJdMt0TRhih5jmSPtIf0LlwObhwmUfdSuqu61FDer4tu3wBJ02dx+nw2nxW+kO7z28zB8MBsL4ejUKOw-DGWNmQixjUxaNMXUJxJcJzKADdKMRUg4KLT-rkKHQ8EhcjAEGxqbpirzAczWeyItAuYVNICwMRyYj+Q4pY8iRRCHCGXSlSr-mqmRIHlrNQKdrsFf9fk4KUbytKAX8vudLl9lXCyodjiAAGIQXK0OgsEAANQA9oEvABzBhsV2YD1e0Q+kB+oMh8NsIA

So when both outputs are on, my problem with the output of Falstad is its way too low, its supposed to shoot right up when both are on (Making it an and gate) because the shorting resistors are blocked with voltage, and it cant take this pathway anymore when they are both on, and Falstad is missing it in its simulation of power sources.

 

[Harald Kapp]

So when both outputs are on

Output? Inputs? Voltage sources? What are you talking about?

its supposed to shoot right up

What do you mean by "shoot up"?

because the shorting resistors are blocked with voltage

??? You can't block resistors by voltage. Where there's a resistor and a voltage across it, there will be current. It's Ohm's law.

Falstad is missing it in its simulation of power sources

The one who is missing something is not Falstad, it's you, Sorry I have to say so.
You seem to miss the basic concepts of circuit analysis - not much required for such a simple DC circuit. And you confuse us (at least me) by creating your own terminology ("shoot up", "block with voltage", ...) which is completely different from what is commonly used by people dealing with electronic circuits. This is really not helping the issue .

 

[loadhead]

Output? Inputs? Voltage sources? What are you talking about?

Output is where I'm tapping the amps to get the explicit value I need for my machine. It's the output of the maths, I start off with an input and then I convert the number the usable exact quantity, and that's the point of the circuit, or any circuit for that matter, including yours.

What do you mean by "shoot up"?

The amps should be higher than what Falstad is showing me, If it "shoots up" when both operands are on at the same time, it means its an and gate.

??? You can't block resistors by voltage. Where there's a resistor and a voltage across it, there will be current. It's Ohm's law.

If 5v, meets 5v, its as good as a diode back down that wire, that's why you can use voltage like a diode.
But Falstad can't simulate the fact.

The one who is missing something is not Falstad, it's you, Sorry I have to say so.
You seem to miss the basic concepts of circuit analysis - not much required for such a simple DC circuit. And you confuse us (at least me) by creating your own terminology ("shoot up", "block with voltage", ...) which is completely different from what is commonly used by people dealing with electronic circuits. This is really not helping the issue .

I'm sorry about that, That's something that cannot be helped. I need to do things how I do them, if it doesn't agree with other people I'm afraid its just an unavoidable sad situation.


Falstad gets the amp reading wrong for 2 power supplies in parallel, it thinks power goes back through the other battery when it doesn't.

 

[kellys_eye]

This is reminiscent of a forum user that trolled us for weeks before someone had the gumption to bin them. Same Falstad crap, same non-understanding, same trolling.

 

[loadhead]

Getting banned? Thats a bit much for 1 just innocent post!!!! holy shit is this Alschwitz?
I thought this electronics was about discovering the beautiful mystery of it, and no-one knows what it could bring us technologically!!!

 

[kellys_eye]

Getting banned? Thats a bit much for 1 just innocent post!!!! holy shit is this Alschwitz?
I thought this electronics was about discovering the beautiful mystery of it, and no-one knows what it could bring us technologically!!!

I didn't infer your banning - what are you? a camp guard?

That said, if you continue to spout such nonsense as this:

If 5v, meets 5v, its as good as a diode back down that wire, that's why you can use voltage like a diode.

and ignore such comments as this:

You seem to miss the basic concepts of circuit analysis - not much required for such a simple DC circuit. And you confuse us (at least me) by creating your own terminology ("shoot up", "block with voltage", ...) which is completely different from what is commonly used by people dealing with electronic circuits.

then you are neither helping yourself or others.

"shoot up" and "block with voltage" are phraseology we got from 'the troll' and it's not missed on us.

 

[Harald Kapp]

Falstad cant simulate more than one battery simultaneously properly?

Falstad can, you can't.

Output is where I'm tapping the amps

What is "tapping the amps"?

The amps should be higher than what Falstad is showing me

How come you think that the current (I suppose that's what you mean by amps) should be higher? Show us your analysis of the circuit and the calculations that give the expected current.

it means its an and gate.

No, it isn't.

That's something that cannot be helped ... if it doesn't agree with other people I'm afraid its just an unavoidable sad situation.

It can be helped and it is avoidable. You need to work on your attitude.

Getting banned? Thats a bit much for 1 just innocent post!!!!

It's not that single post, it is the attitude you show.

I thought this electronics was about discovering the beautiful mystery of it,

Of course it is. But there are still some underlying physical laws that cannot be changed and some conventions that need to bserved to have a common base of understanding.

 

[loadhead]

the common base is the truth, everything else should be as different as possible, (for example how we go about it).

 

[Martaine2005]

Lol @dragon

 

[Harald Kapp]

everything else should be as different as possible, (for example how we go about it).

Only as long as it doesn't prevent others from understaning what you are talking about - as is the current situation

 

[Harald Kapp]

Lol @dragon

Quite a good memory you have there

 

[bertus]

Hello,

A real ringmodulator consists of two transformers and 4 diodes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulation

Bertus

 

[loadhead]

Thats not the only kind, any and gate does the same thing.
you can do it with 1 diode, i dont know why those 4 diodes are even there.

 

[bertus]

Hello,

It will not work with resistors only.
You will need a non-linear element like a diode in the circuit.
That way multiplication will work.

Bertus

 

[loadhead]

The voltage acts like a diode.

 

[loadhead]

https://i.imgur.com/h77dlcP.png this happens.

 

[bertus]

Hello,

Voltages can not act as diodes.
Have a look here about the working of a ring modulator:

Ring Modulator for The Double Sideband Suppressed Carrier Generation - Electronics Post

Ring Modulator for The Double Sideband Suppressed Carrier Generation , Wokring Operation , Carrier Suppression , Operation in Presence of Modulating Signal

electronicspost.com

Bertus

 

[Harald Kapp]

The voltage acts like a diode.

pure nonsense. I'll close this thread to stop further useless discussion .