reply to audio guru thanks audio the ac output from the generator is fed to the parralell capacitor stck via a 1m bleeder resister when the parralell capacitor stack was only 16 long i was haveing no troubles untill i increased it to 20, and i think the values of the hv ceramics in the high voltage multiplier circuit, are higher than i had with the other hand powerd generater that i may of used to power up the 16 long green caps before i increased them to 20 , if you were refering to a bridge rectifier, all capacitors are non polarised, yes the voltage would remain the same 630 volts but higher current, i will rebiuld the parralell capacitor stack but stick to 16 and see how i go there to. or try increaseing the bleeder resister. reply to audio guru thanks audio the ac output from the generator is fed to the parralell capacitor stck via a 1m bleeder resister when the parralell capacitor stack was only 16 long i was haveing no troubles untill i increased it to 20, and i think the values of the hv ceramics in the high voltage multiplier circuit, are higher than i had with the other hand powerd generater that i may of used to power up the 16 long green caps before i increased them to 20 , if you were refering to a bridge rectifier, all capacitors are non polarised, yes the voltage would remain the same 630 volts but higher current, i will rebiuld the parralell capacitor stack but stick to 16 and see how i go there to. or try increaseing the bleeder resister.
audioguru2
- Apr 6, 2004
- 12,026
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 12,026
Hi Steven,
I have lotsa questions for ya:
1) How much AC output voltage does your microwave-motor generator produce? If you crank it hard, what frequency is its output?
2) Why do you connect the parallel capacitors to the AC output of your generator? The AC voltage is continuously changing in amplitude and polarity. When you stop the generator, you don't know how much voltage (if any) or what polarity the charge will be. If you feed the capacitors from the AC generator through your 1M series resistor, then the voltage across the capacitors will be very low. If you feed the capacitors from the generator through a series rectifier or full-wave bridge, then the capacitors will charge to the peak DC voltage of the AC every time.
3) Isn't the 1M resistor in series with the capacitors? Why such a high value? The fully-charged time for a 1M resistor feeding 5.3uF to 6.6uF is about 30 seconds from a smooth DC input and minutes from rectifier pulses. If you reduce the value of the series resistor, then the capacitors will charge quicker, but the higher load on the generator will make it more difficult to crank.
4) What is the DC output voltage of your voltage-multiplier when fed from the generator that is cranked hard?
BTW, your fancy white PVC decoration looks great! ;D
I have lotsa questions for ya:
1) How much AC output voltage does your microwave-motor generator produce? If you crank it hard, what frequency is its output?
2) Why do you connect the parallel capacitors to the AC output of your generator? The AC voltage is continuously changing in amplitude and polarity. When you stop the generator, you don't know how much voltage (if any) or what polarity the charge will be. If you feed the capacitors from the AC generator through your 1M series resistor, then the voltage across the capacitors will be very low. If you feed the capacitors from the generator through a series rectifier or full-wave bridge, then the capacitors will charge to the peak DC voltage of the AC every time.
3) Isn't the 1M resistor in series with the capacitors? Why such a high value? The fully-charged time for a 1M resistor feeding 5.3uF to 6.6uF is about 30 seconds from a smooth DC input and minutes from rectifier pulses. If you reduce the value of the series resistor, then the capacitors will charge quicker, but the higher load on the generator will make it more difficult to crank.
4) What is the DC output voltage of your voltage-multiplier when fed from the generator that is cranked hard?
BTW, your fancy white PVC decoration looks great! ;D
reply to audio guru thanks for the compliment of my pvc decoration. i havent measured to ac voltage from the generater yet, ive been to busy with everything, i will concider it, i dont know the ac output from the hv multiplier circuit as it produces great hv arcs and in case it exceeds the limit of my digital multimeter 1000 volts range , im not ready to risk it yet as my meter costs $78 so untill i complete my hv resister devider circuits im working on ,which will enable me to measure high voltage with my multimeter, so when its done ill be able to give more info, as for the parralell capacitors well at first i had 16 in parralell for more current capacity , and the 1m bleeder resister was what i tested at first and it worked i charged up i6 parralell caps at 630 volts , at a higher current level that i assumed would be, but i dident measure it yet and i got the same results i get from shorting a high voltage photo flash capacitor . a pop , as for the bridge rectifier , ill try that when i reconstruct the parralell capacitor setup. ive dismantled many photo flash camera circuits before and they seem to use the 1m bleeder or feeder resister to the hv capacitor so i used it in my exsperiment but the hv camera circuit has 250 volts to the trigger coil . but as for the capacitor.s i used in parralelll well for the unmeasured voltage from the hv multiplier i assumed to be over a thousand or more volts , judgeing by the hv arcs i get from it . i decided to test it useing the same 1m feeder resister used in most flash circuits, to the hv parralell capacitor circuit , as soon as my hv resister devider is completed ill measure the multiplier circuit hv output and then adjust the resistance from there ante if your gona have a go at biulding a hv output hand powerd generator. im behind you all the way.reply to audio guru just measured the ac volts output form the microwave oven moter generater well at the speed i rotated it i was getting between 400 and 556 volts ac output around that so i havent exceeded the voltage rateings of any one 3kv ceramic capacitors yet, now ive got a few different looking microwave oven motor generators so they may vary in ac output i geuss. my hand powerd units are made so you can rotate the moter shaft turn peace half way, backwards and forwards . and i recently replaced one generater with plastic shaft and internals, for a moter generater with metal shaft as the hard cranking of the microwave oven /motor generaters dose damage the plastic cogs inside thuss breaking the teeths of the main plastic cog inside, so i hope the steel shaft type microwave oven motor generater has metal cogs inside, to pro long the moters life.
audioguru2
- Apr 6, 2004
- 12,026
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 12,026
Hi Steven,
Your generator puts out quite a high AC voltage. Of course, your voltage multiplier will have much more, but DC (doesn't it have rectifiers?).
There is a formula for the amount of voltage that is required to arc between terminals in air. It is about 1mm/5KV, or something like that. In addition to reducing power dissipation and increasing speed, modern digital ICs operate at only 3.3V or less to avoid arcing inside. Their wiring is very close together.
I think that photo-flash capacitors have a parallel "bleeder" resistor to discharge them to avoid dangerous charged capacitors in the garbage-dump. Isn't your resistor in series?
Maybe the generator's gears should be replaced with a belt-drive system, like superchargers! What do modern windmill-generators use for a drive-train? Have you tried blowing air or the blast from a jet-turbine on a vacuum-cleaner's motor/fan?
There's a big advertising sign in a field. It has a small windmill like is used on pleasure-boats, and solar cells. I have never seen it lighted at night, so I think that the generator and solar cells are phoney, and the owner charges big bucks for his high expenses!
Your generator puts out quite a high AC voltage. Of course, your voltage multiplier will have much more, but DC (doesn't it have rectifiers?).
There is a formula for the amount of voltage that is required to arc between terminals in air. It is about 1mm/5KV, or something like that. In addition to reducing power dissipation and increasing speed, modern digital ICs operate at only 3.3V or less to avoid arcing inside. Their wiring is very close together.
I think that photo-flash capacitors have a parallel "bleeder" resistor to discharge them to avoid dangerous charged capacitors in the garbage-dump. Isn't your resistor in series?
Maybe the generator's gears should be replaced with a belt-drive system, like superchargers! What do modern windmill-generators use for a drive-train? Have you tried blowing air or the blast from a jet-turbine on a vacuum-cleaner's motor/fan?
There's a big advertising sign in a field. It has a small windmill like is used on pleasure-boats, and solar cells. I have never seen it lighted at night, so I think that the generator and solar cells are phoney, and the owner charges big bucks for his high expenses!
reply to audio guru, very well siad audio guru you are a master of words, the 1m resister is in sieries with the parrallel capacitor stack, and the microwave oven motor generator before that one with the metal shaft i put in, got its internal plastic cog damaged, so i used it as follows the round disc shaped magnet i stuck to the end peace on the shaft of a large 12 volts high speed motor from a remote control boat, and the coil section of the moter i used by inserting the magnet into it, and when i fired it up i got ac output as this magnet i secured with super glue . i once used a hot glue gun to do another magnet but the heat destroyed the magnets magnetic feild, so useing super glue is better, ill post the info to the generaters topic as soon as ive completed it. hopefully ill get more continiuous arcs when powerd by moter.ive been informed by someone from tesla down under site on net who ive had email contact with before, that the disc magnet s in the microwave oven motors have several poles, i though was a bit strange for such a small magnet i dont know the frenquency of my arcs or other as i dont have a frenquency meter ,
audioguru2
- Apr 6, 2004
- 12,026
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 12,026
Steven,
Are you aiming to produce 1 metre arcs? That'll take lotsa volts.
Have you tried spraying a fine water mist between your charged electrodes?
Are you aiming to produce 1 metre arcs? That'll take lotsa volts.
Have you tried spraying a fine water mist between your charged electrodes?
from steven the high voltage output mini marx generator setup which i power from the generators high voltage multiplier circuit still fires up well, and if yous dont have a turn peace for the microwave oven motor/generator a thick peace of perspex filed to the shape of a lever will provide more leverage in turning the shaft of the motor generator, drill a small hole in it for the shaft, then file it to shape, close to that of the shaft. if you dont have a thick enougth perspex bblock or peace you can make your lever by glueing a few sheetes or strips of perspex together then cut and file it to shape.the latest generator ill soon be working on is powerd from a large high speed electric motor, one of my motor generators that i replaced with a better one had internal plastic cog damage . so i removed the round magnet, that i was told has several poles. and stuck it to the end shaft peace of that motor. i then inserted it into the coil section of the generater, then i fired it up and it works oktoday i did a simple exsperiment with my high voltage output hand powerd generater and useing a photo flash capacitor in my collection of high voltage capacitors, i was able to charge this capacitor fully or more like over as you can feel the charge in the capac itor with my finger after i disconected the generater wire, this is something you dont get as when these capacitors are charged up in the camera you can put your finger across the capacitor terminals and feel nothing unlless you have 2 in sieries but this one acted like a pair in sieries, and useing a screw dxreiver to short the capacitor results in the big, pop as usual, the load on the hand power generater that makes it harder to turn is only a little bit as i rotate it forwards and backwards this loading ocurss e few times then drops out so the moter is erasy to turn again
i tried another test to charge that same photo flash capacitor up but it failed and to make things worce , thne microwave oven motor/generater, with the metal shaft, of which i assumed to have metal internal cog to, ended up breaking down so i had to dismantle the whole moter generater, onlt to find the inside cogs are plastic, to the cogs are ok, but its the part at the bottom of the metal shaft that sits into it ,that was made o plastic had striped , so i pulled out my spare hand powerd generater and tried it but it didewnt charge the capacitor up full as the 3kv ceramics in the hv multiplier inside the houseing was lower in value than the other hand powerd generater, so ill be concidering useing my high voltage output flyback transformer and a high voltage resister devider to charge these capacitors up with, as the high voltage resister devider, when hooked up to the flyback transformer gave me an output reduced to 240 volts which is nearly what i need to charge capacitors with
more experiments useing the high voltage multuiplier circuit from that hand power high voltage generater, with a few parts i was able to recharge that same capaciotr fully or just over, again and again with no faults so soon ill be posting the first hand powerd high voltage photo flash capacitor charger, as soon as i put together a neon charge indicater of some kind, to indicate the capacitor is charged. in this one im useing a larger metal microwave oven motor/ generater that wont fit inside the hand power generater houseing.
