A relatively unimportant announcement...

[Bill Garber]

: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:06:43 -0500, "Bill Garber"
:
: I have a *very* large hard-drive on my simulation machine ;-)
:
: ...Jim Thompson

Point taken. I could also post links to some
very interesting homebrew interfaces that people
designed and built for Apple IIs, C64, others.
I wasn't sure if you guys were interested in any
vintage computer projects. Here is a particularly
interesting one that the builder actually did
produce and sell. This was a revision for a 2nd
run. Uses an Altera IC of some type for the GLU.
I have 2 of them and plan on 2 more soon. Sorry,
I can take NO credit for this one. I am designing
one for the Apple IIc though, and it'll have to
be dropped onto the CPU socket with another socket
onboard the controller for the CPU. Anyway, here's
Rich's card.

http://dreher.net/CFforAppleII/

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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[James Meyer]

"Mark Jones" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message

: You could always post them here, using some obscure title like
"STD's" or
: something.

I could do that. How many of you guys have Apple IIs? ;-)
Quite a few of them are for those.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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Me for one. I've also got a Kaypro 4, a VIC-20, a Victor 1000, a
Sinclair Z-81, and a Morrow MicroDecision.

Jim

 

[Bill Garber]

: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:17:54 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<[email protected]> wroth:
:
: >"Mark Jones" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message
:
: >: You could always post them here, using some obscure title
like
: >"STD's" or
: >: something.
: >
: >I could do that. How many of you guys have Apple IIs? ;-)
: >Quite a few of them are for those.
: >
: >Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: >Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
: >Email - [email protected]
: >Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
: >
: Me for one. I've also got a Kaypro 4, a VIC-20, a Victor 1000,
a
: Sinclair Z-81, and a Morrow MicroDecision.
:
: Jim

Great, I thought I was alone in here. ;-)
Do you frequent the comp.sys.apple2 NGs
as well?

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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[James Meyer]

: >
: Me for one. I've also got a Kaypro 4, a VIC-20, a Victor 1000,
a
: Sinclair Z-81, and a Morrow MicroDecision.
:
: Jim

Great, I thought I was alone in here. ;-)
Do you frequent the comp.sys.apple2 NGs
as well?

No. I used to visit Fido Net's Apple forums, but that was a long time
ago.

Jim

 

[Bill Garber]

: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:05:09 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<[email protected]> wroth:
: >
: >: Me for one. I've also got a Kaypro 4, a VIC-20, a Victor
1000,
: >: a Sinclair Z-81, and a Morrow MicroDecision.
: >: Jim
: >Great, I thought I was alone in here. ;-)
: >Do you frequent the comp.sys.apple2 NGs
: >as well?
: No. I used to visit Fido Net's Apple forums, but that was a
long time
: ago.
: Jim

How long since you actually ran the Apple II?
I never had any Apple Computers until about a
year and a half ago. Kind feel badly that I didn't
buy Apple IIs instead of Atari. They're kinda fun
to tear apart and try to hook them up to scud missiles.
Oops, did I say that? Oh well. It's nice to know
I am not alone in here with vintage boxes.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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[Kevin Aylward]

Being wrong is something you have to get used to. I figure I've been
wrong *at least* 10X the number of times I've been right. Engineering
is about being able to wad up the piece of paper and start over...
without being depressed.

In reality, its way, way more than this for anyone. As my usual
bit...the brain is a Darwinian machine etc..., i.e. Genetic Algorithms,
that is, it achieves *all* that is does by random variation, selection
and replication. It can takes millions of generations before a final
correct result pops out.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most.
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

 

[Frank Bemelman]

I could do that. How many of you guys have Apple IIs? ;-)
Quite a few of them are for those.

I still have one. *3D0G <enter>

 

[Chuck Harris]

In reality, its way, way more than this for anyone. As my usual
bit...the brain is a Darwinian machine etc..., i.e. Genetic Algorithms,
that is, it achieves *all* that is does by random variation, selection
and replication. It can takes millions of generations before a final
correct result pops out.

Did it take six, or seven pints of Guiness to drive your Darwinian
machine to randomly arrive at this conclusion?

-Chuck

 

[Paul Burridge]

Did it take six, or seven pints of Guiness to drive your Darwinian
machine to randomly arrive at this conclusion?

LOL!
Kev is actually right in principle, though, for such a consice
explanation of a complex matter.

 

[James Meyer]

: No. I used to visit Fido Net's Apple forums, but that was a
long time
: ago.
: Jim

How long since you actually ran the Apple II?

I built my first Apple ][ (clone) from a bare PC board and a bunch of
ICs somewhere around 1980. The DIP sockets were the most expensive parts. I
put it into a cardboard box and used a power supply from an old TRS-80 to get it
going. I programmed my VIC-20 so that one of its I/O ports could plug into the
keyboard socket of the Apple. That gave me a programmable keyboard! I could
also use the VIC's cassette for Apple program storage.

I bought a used Apple 2C about 10 years ago and that's the last time I
actually had an Apple running. I got the 2C to see if I could get an old
ProFile hard disk to run, but the ProFile really needs a Lisa of Apple III.
There used to be some interface cards for the old ][, but I've never been able
to find one. There's 10 megs on that old hard drive. I wonder what sort of
"treasures" are stored on it.

I never had any Apple Computers until about a
year and a half ago. Kind feel badly that I didn't
buy Apple IIs instead of Atari.

The first computer system that I actually got paid to put together used
an Atari 600. It measured the length and width of a bundle of sheets of wood
veneer to get its surface area, multiplied it by the number of sheets in the
bundle, and printed out an invoice for a pallet full of bundles. Each bundle
was a different size and shape.

Jim

 

[Dimitrij Klingbeil]

wroth:

OK Paul. Would you like to put your money where your mouth is? You
name the stakes and we'll let Win Hill hold the purse.

My bet is that you'll never get it to work worth a darn with only one
diode in there.

<snip>

Sure? If he connects the meter thingy in parallel to that only diode instead
of in series with it, the whole circuit might as well start working (not
that it will work well ...), especially after some minor resistor changes.
The inductance of the meter will be high enough to not let it pass a too
high current at 40MHz, so the DC voltage offset across the diode (after the
cap charges up) could well drive a meter. Without proper shielding the AC
part will likely get picked up by the antenna and cause oscillation, but
giving the OP the benefit of the doubt I assume he handles the shielding.

Dimitrij

 

[Bill Garber]

: On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:50:17 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<[email protected]> wroth:
: >
: >: No. I used to visit Fido Net's Apple forums, but that was a
: >long time
: >: ago.
: >: Jim
: >
: >How long since you actually ran the Apple II?
:
: I built my first Apple ][ (clone) from a bare PC board and a
bunch of
: ICs somewhere around 1980. The DIP sockets were the most
expensive parts. I
: put it into a cardboard box and used a power supply from an old
TRS-80 to get it
: going. I programmed my VIC-20 so that one of its I/O ports
could plug into the
: keyboard socket of the Apple. That gave me a programmable
keyboard! I could
: also use the VIC's cassette for Apple program storage.
:
: I bought a used Apple 2C about 10 years ago and that's the last
time I
: actually had an Apple running. I got the 2C to see if I could
get an old
: ProFile hard disk to run, but the ProFile really needs a Lisa
of Apple III.
: There used to be some interface cards for the old ][, but I've
never been able
: to find one. There's 10 megs on that old hard drive. I wonder
what sort of
: "treasures" are stored on it.

I have a Profile controller for Apple II slot.
Care to buy it, or sell me the drive? I would
be more than happy to transfer your 10 MB files
to disk. If the drive still works that is. ;-)

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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[Bill Garber]

: "Bill Garber" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
: : >
: > I could do that. How many of you guys have Apple IIs? ;-)
: > Quite a few of them are for those.
: >
: I still have one. *3D0G <enter>

Kool. I have a housefull ranging from
a II+ to a ROM3 IIgs. Much fun in them
still. Set it up, we'll play around with
them. Lots of them still around too.
Many newbies picking them up along with
oldies replacing ones they sold years ago.
I'd like to join the UG here, but they are
over an hour away. They have 9 members.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
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[Ben Bradley]

Being wrong is something you have to get used to. I figure I've been
wrong *at least* 10X the number of times I've been right. Engineering
is about being able to wad up the piece of paper and start over...
without being depressed.

Or at least without getting caught.
If being wrong makes you depressed AND being depressed stops you
from working/learning, then engineering is probably not for you. My
employers never much cared about my attitude or how I felt (and that
was often a good thing...), but they really cared about me being right
and doing correct work.

I dunno why, but when I was taking electrical engineering classes,
the profs would talk about building this hypothetical bridge (not of
diodes, nor Wheatstone's invention, but the kind you walk over or
drive a car over - isn't that a civil engineering task?) - I recall
when someone asked about "partial credit" on a test problem (he missed
the problem on the previous day's test, and the prof was going over
it), the prof responded "what if you designed a bridge, they built it,
and it turned out to be only 80 percent as long as it should have
been, should you still get 80 percent of your salary?"
Did anyone else's prof talk about a bridge, or was it just my
school?

The only problem that ever caused me was the wife getting ticked
because I just threw the paper wads over my shoulder into the dining
room ;-)

That must be a hazard of working at home. Or is it a hazard of
being married?
Do wives mind if you drop bits of insulation and solder on the
floor?

 

[Keith R. Williams]

Or at least without getting caught.
If being wrong makes you depressed AND being depressed stops you
from working/learning, then engineering is probably not for you. My
employers never much cared about my attitude or how I felt (and that
was often a good thing...), but they really cared about me being right
and doing correct work.

Getting it done on time is often more important than getting it
"right". "Never enough time to do it right; always enough time to do
it over." ;-)

I dunno why, but when I was taking electrical engineering classes,
the profs would talk about building this hypothetical bridge (not of
diodes, nor Wheatstone's invention, but the kind you walk over or
drive a car over - isn't that a civil engineering task?) - I recall
when someone asked about "partial credit" on a test problem (he missed
the problem on the previous day's test, and the prof was going over
it), the prof responded "what if you designed a bridge, they built it,
and it turned out to be only 80 percent as long as it should have
been, should you still get 80 percent of your salary?"

No, I want 100% of my salary (why they call it "salary"). If the boss
isn't pleased I may get 0% tomorrow, but I've already earned yesterdays
pay. Of course profit sharing is another issue...

Did anyone else's prof talk about a bridge, or was it just my
school?

You're unique. ;-) Partial credit and curved exams were the norm for
us. Indeed one usually got 90% credit for just setting up the
equations. Arithmetic/algebra errors weren't heavily punished. One EE
prof gave exams that weren't intended to be finished and 50-55% was
usually the A/B cut-off. I remember a physics exam where a zero was
curved to 50 and 10 was curved to a barely passing 70 (weird bimodal
distribution on that exam).

That must be a hazard of working at home. Or is it a hazard of
being married?
Do wives mind if you drop bits of insulation and solder on the
floor?

....especially when the bits burn the carpet. Wives are so narrow
minded about such things.

 

[Chuck Harris]

I dunno why, but when I was taking electrical engineering classes,
the profs would talk about building this hypothetical bridge (not of
diodes, nor Wheatstone's invention, but the kind you walk over or
drive a car over - isn't that a civil engineering task?) - I recall
when someone asked about "partial credit" on a test problem (he missed
the problem on the previous day's test, and the prof was going over
it), the prof responded "what if you designed a bridge, they built it,
and it turned out to be only 80 percent as long as it should have
been, should you still get 80 percent of your salary?"
Did anyone else's prof talk about a bridge, or was it just my
school?

Old Jim George, my Statics/Dynamics/Strengths of Materials prof used to
talk that way whenever someone tried to get partial credit for some
test problem where they got the wrong answer, the right way. He would
say basically that, "You have to be right sometime. What if you were
building a bridge, and you made a mistake calculating the loads, and the
bridge fell down? Do you think it would be of any comfort to the
families of the people driving over that bridge to know you almost got
the numbers right?"

Some of the best lessons were when we got him sidetracked into talking
about the airplanes he designed during WWII. One of my favorites was
about the cockpit for the Corsair (IIRC) They were changing the cockpit
from one made up of metal framing and plexyglass sheets into a molded
plexyglass cockpit. The problem was an important one, so they gave it
to the best engineer, a guy from MIT. This guy spent weeks and weeks
calculating out the exact strengths necessary for every part of the
plastic structure. It was beginning to look like he would never finish,
so they gave the problem to Jim George, and he handed in his result in
some incredibly quick amount of time. His cockpit was slightly heavier
than was necessary, but was more than twice as strong as was necessary,
and was much lighter than the original. What he did, was put a big
honking piece of bullet proof glass as the front windshield, and made
the entire rest of the cockpit out of one thickness of plexyglass.

His justification for designing the cockpit the way he did, was
something along the lines of good enough beats best when you don't have
unlimited time and money to spend.

The MIT engineer was trying to make the cockpit so the thickness exactly
matched the strength necessary for any point on the screen. It would
have been impossible to build given 1940's technology.

-Chuck Harris

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith R. Williams
com>) about 'A relatively unimportant announcement...', on Mon, 29 Dec
2003:

why they call it "salary"

Latin 'salarium' - money to buy salt with.

 

[Richard Crowley]

Keith R. Williams wrote ...

Latin 'salarium' - money to buy salt with.

Or actually salt itself (which was a form of money
in those days).

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

...

Or actually salt itself (which was a form of money
in those days).

But salt was "sal", and "sal-arium" was the bread with which to buy
salt.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chuck Harris <[email protected]>

His justification for designing the cockpit the way he did, was
something along the lines of good enough beats best when you don't have
unlimited time and money to spend.

That's why the Prof was not really right to choose a bridge as the
example. They are (or were, before we had computers) typically built
with big safety factors - 3 to 6, so that even if the calculations were
off, it wouldn't be disastrous.