Behringer Ultrabass input section issue

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Hi all. I have a faulty Ultrabass BX4500H bass amplifier head - fixing for a mate. Crackling like crazy. Problem seems to be around the EQ area - IC6 and the transistors preceding it (service manual including schematics attached). The initial stages (up to and including IC3A) are fine but by the IC6D op amp the signal is lost in crackling and thereafter is all bad. I disconnected the power amp section from the input/preamp and tested it and the power amp is works fine. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. I have a decent multimeter and some audio repair experience but don't have an oscilloscope or anything like that. I have a homemade probe connected to a small amp so I can listen to the signal at any point in the path. All pretty homespun and amateur I'm afraid.
Cheers
Tom
 

Attachments

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Delta Prime

Jul 29, 2020
2,987
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
2,987
Quick check of VR3a to VR7a, contact cleaner for the 100k Ohm potentiometers
& VR10, 10k Ohm potentiometer. It couldn't hurt it & won't make things worse.
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Quick check of VR3a to VR7a, contact cleaner for the 100k Ohm potentiometers
& VR10, 10k Ohm potentiometer. It couldn't hurt it & won't make things worse.
Thanks! I'll try that tomorrow morning. Definitely worth a punt!
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Quick check of VR3a to VR7a, contact cleaner for the 100k Ohm potentiometers
& VR10, 10k Ohm potentiometer. It couldn't hurt it & won't make things worse.
I've cleaned all the pots and afraid the crackling sound is still there and no signal getting through. Any idea as to which component might be faulty? - Could it be the op amp IC6 (TL074) or maybe those transistors - T2-6? Mind you all the components in this section are super tiny so I probably wouldn't be able to replace with the equipment and skill I have. But I'm interested to know which component is at fault and maybe there is a way to bypass it so we have something working with limited functionality.
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
As I have nothing to lose at this point I'm going to have a go at replacing the SMD chip IC6. Last time I tried this I made a complete pig's ear of it but I've watched a few more vids and bought some decent flux. Will keep you all posted.
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
3,730
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
3,730
Sir tom1970 . . . . . (so 'dat makes you 54yo ?)

Before you jump off the deep end with that EYE SEE 6 attempt . . . shudder . . . shudder . . .WAIT ! . . . lets initially do a signal flow path walk thru.
I am referencing to page 20 of supplied Pee Dee Eff . . . now you go therealso.

My consideration is perceiving that your prior testing was with audio signal input at X2 and/or X2 inputs and the final amplified and processed audio output at Line Output X7.

My analysis would be based upon either a single section of an op amp stage at fault for that random noise burst origin or an internal DC power distribution within one unit being disruptive to one or all of its stages.

Starting at top left corner X2-X3 inputs and watching the signal flow to the right thru stages . . . .
Initial input to pin12of IC3D output at pin # 14.
From # 14 signal audio output divides to an upper short processing path thru T1 FET and then into IC3C # 10 (its zero crossbar makes it look like an 8 or B).
The lower, longer audio path is thru #6 of IC3B and out #7 and then up to T9 and out of it into #9
of IC3C.
After boosting up within IC3C it goes out of #9 of IC3C and transports a DC signal and initially takes a DC path down and the to the right over to schemas top right corner.
In that area it then routes up into a D6 steering/isolation diode and its selected attenuative resistor and is being 1 of 2 inputs into IC6 INPUT meter driver amp pin # 5.

Going back to IC3C #8 the audio AC signal after passing thru C8 then passes down and to middle left of schema and into pin # 5 of IC4 of a ULTRA BASS BOOSTING cluster of components and goes out at pin #1 of IC4A.
We will touch upon this area again, when confirming, which position that you had a switch placed in.

We are back to IC3C #8 and thru C8 again, but with audio now going into IC3A pin #2 and amped and processed out as IC3A pin # 1 and is then coupled thru C4 and goes into multiple selective frequency tailoring adjustments which then go into IC6D pins # 13 and # 12 to immediately amp thru and come out #14 and go into an additional mixed stage of amplification at IC6C pin #10 and comes out at pin #8 of IC6 and passes thru steering/rectifier diode D4 with its selected attenuative resistor and is the second input of INPUT METER amp pin #5 of IC6B.

POINT OF INTEREST . . . . .
IF
your popping and crackling is being within the stages we traced so far . . . . .Question ? . . . . .
are those pops showing on the meter, either as mini or maxi meter blips ?
If so, and since the D4 and D6 are being shown as 1N4148's types and . . .IF . . .they happen to be the more serviceable leaded versions.. . . . . versus SM . . . . . taking a soldering iron and lifting one lead of D6 might then tell you of noise origin being in those few earlier stages.
Then there is the IC3-IC6 possibility by lifting one lead of D4.

We stopped the audio signal flow out of IC6C #8 and if you pass it to the right and go into and loop thru the FX send and return connections its next encounter is being the pin #3 of IC6A.
Now that sole C section of IC 6 can be isolated by no FX-SEND------to-------FX-RETURN.
Can you try those two connection conditions to analyze probability of only IC6A at fault . . . . or else its an internal power distribution / avalanche break down fault that's affecting either one or all of its sections.

RELEVANT INFO . ..
FX_SND
to FX_RET circuitry connectivity is shown mid bottom of schema, just above the DRAWING REVISIONS BOX.

Considering that we now have FX_SND to FX_RET interconnected . . . .lets now travel further on down . . . The Yellow Brick Road ******

Signal is going into IC6A #3 and is amped out at IC6A #1 and travels left to center schema R84 where it drops down to pass audio into IC7A pin #2 . . . . AND ADDITIONALLY . . . going into a IC8A solid state analog switch 4053 IC8 switch section A that has the option of switching in the output of the earlier mentioned ULTRABASS amp cluster .
See if your front panel has that selector knob as its being either the 4th or 6th over (BLURRY Pic)
That switch sends turn on voltage to pin #11 of its analog switch section A to add in some degree of low freq audio from its out at the VR2A ULTRABASS control pot to the left . . . . . that being IF . . .you don't have that pot already sitting down a lower or no output level .
Now switch between the two bass positions for the possibility of your crackling originating over at the ULTRABASS cluster.

Otherwise you have continual common audio flowing into IC7A pin #2 and it exits . . . after being amped . . . at IC7A pin #1.
The audio then coming in from C6 takes a short and direct across top route and goes into an analog switch IC8 section B Pin # 2
The lower alternate shaping influenced path is having audio pass from C6 and go down and into
a closed loop tonal shaping cluster with initial entry into IC7B pin #6 and out its pin #7 and then pass down into IC7D pin #13 and out its pin #14 to loop back into pin #5 of IC7B. Confusing? Then just consider all of that adjustment and processing action, just influencing the aidio signal path between IC7B pin 6 to 7. Then you just take the influenced signal path as basically going from IC7B pin
#7 up and over thru R82 and then down into pin #9 if IC7C to be amped and outed at its pin #6 and then to the right to go into pin1 of analog switch IC6B.
Now . . . do you get it . . . . if you use the top section of SHAPE switch you analyzing for noise origin in IC7A section. If you move down to its alternate position the IC7B,C and D sections are involved.
In our last testing we were merely differentiating as to whether the SUPERBASS circuitry was the injected noise source.
The final audio path is now being from IC8B pin 15 and passing over to IC9C pin #9 for its amping up and outputting at its pin #8 and down and to the right to line out.



TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES . . . . .
(speshfully deesined fer 'dem/'dose whuts don'ts gots miimal mimul minnumul minnymal commun cents and toteully nuttin in buklarnin' spear-a-ints . . . . . . a'tall.)
Compliments of IVY league collegiate floor sweeping choremates . . . .
Delmer P.(ee) Dumbnuttz
Pratley P.(ee) Peterhaid


SUSPICIONS . . . .
That the pops / crackling might be originating in a particular I C section.
OR . . .that the power distribution portion, within the I C, might be affecting a select or all sections due to developed shot noise or voltage avalanching.
This will also need consideration of the 4053 analog switches .

INITIALCONSIDERATIONOFTWOWAYSONHOWTODOITTOIT . . . . .

We have tracked that audio from each given input and output of every IC and identified those involved pin numbers. As well, all inputs and outputs were defined.
NOW . . .take as simple of testing aid as is a mere 4.7 or 10 ufd E-cap ^^^^^, rated at the highest DC to be found on these components.
^^^^^^ If you are parts rich / blessed and happen to have a 1 thru 5 ? ufd paper /poly cap, that would work as well.
What you will be doing is taking that cap and ind initially . . . .and after EVERY test . . . shorting out its 2 leads to DC discharge it completely.
You say that you have used sequential probing of audio fed into an aux minor audio amp and seem to have found the " no noise" boundary, if so convinced, feel free to skip ahead to JUST before that point and do this.
You will successfully ground the caps neg lead (not so important/relevant on the conventional paper caps) and use its + lead to solder to or FIRMLY hold constant connect to the input or output of the I C section being evaluated.
EXPECT . . . .
1 . . . . . No affect at all
2 . . . . . Crackling or popping is still present
3 . . . . . That capacitors presence has now effected a tonal coloration of the sound with its POPS and CRACKLES and they are now transitioning to more subtle thumps . . . or maybe swamping on down to no noise at all . . . . until lifting off off the cap.

DISCHARGE THE E-CAP EVERY TIME AFTER TESTING AND MOVE ON DOWN THE SIGNAL PATH.

PHASE TWO . . . .

If uncertain by complete testing of every involved stages above, input and output pins.
Look up the power input pins of all of the involved I.C.'s including 4053's and review the sequential path of those being involved . Starting at audio origin/related IC, take solder sucker / flux / solder braid and remove solder to float that power input pin or lever its tab up out of solder if its being a Surface Mount /Flat Pack.
See if this procedure reveals a particular fault source.

Thaaaaaaaassssit . . . .

The Yellow Brick Road ******



73's de Edd . . . . . . . . . .
tenor.gif


One has two parts in their brain, “left” and “right”
In the left side, there’s nothing right and
In the right side, in time, there’s usually nothing left.

.
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Sir tom1970 . . . . . (so 'dat makes you 54yo ?)

Before you jump off the deep end with that EYE SEE 6 attempt . . . shudder . . . shudder . . .WAIT ! . . . lets initially do a signal flow path walk thru.
I am referencing to page 20 of supplied Pee Dee Eff . . . now you go therealso.

My consideration is perceiving that your prior testing was with audio signal input at X2 and/or X2 inputs and the final amplified and processed audio output at Line Output X7.

My analysis would be based upon either a single section of an op amp stage at fault for that random noise burst origin or an internal DC power distribution within one unit being disruptive to one or all of its stages.

Starting at top left corner X2-X3 inputs and watching the signal flow to the right thru stages . . . .
Initial input to pin12of IC3D output at pin # 14.
From # 14 signal audio output divides to an upper short processing path thru T1 FET and then into IC3C # 10 (its zero crossbar makes it look like an 8 or B).
The lower, longer audio path is thru #6 of IC3B and out #7 and then up to T9 and out of it into #9
of IC3C.
After boosting up within IC3C it goes out of #9 of IC3C and transports a DC signal and initially takes a DC path down and the to the right over to schemas top right corner.
In that area it then routes up into a D6 steering/isolation diode and its selected attenuative resistor and is being 1 of 2 inputs into IC6 INPUT meter driver amp pin # 5.

Going back to IC3C #8 the audio AC signal after passing thru C8 then passes down and to middle left of schema and into pin # 5 of IC4 of a ULTRA BASS BOOSTING cluster of components and goes out at pin #1 of IC4A.
We will touch upon this area again, when confirming, which position that you had a switch placed in.

We are back to IC3C #8 and thru C8 again, but with audio now going into IC3A pin #2 and amped and processed out as IC3A pin # 1 and is then coupled thru C4 and goes into multiple selective frequency tailoring adjustments which then go into IC6D pins # 13 and # 12 to immediately amp thru and come out #14 and go into an additional mixed stage of amplification at IC6C pin #10 and comes out at pin #8 of IC6 and passes thru steering/rectifier diode D4 with its selected attenuative resistor and is the second input of INPUT METER amp pin #5 of IC6B.

POINT OF INTEREST . . . . .
IF
your popping and crackling is being within the stages we traced so far . . . . .Question ? . . . . .
are those pops showing on the meter, either as mini or maxi meter blips ?
If so, and since the D4 and D6 are being shown as 1N4148's types and . . .IF . . .they happen to be the more serviceable leaded versions.. . . . . versus SM . . . . . taking a soldering iron and lifting one lead of D6 might then tell you of noise origin being in those few earlier stages.
Then there is the IC3-IC6 possibility by lifting one lead of D4.

We stopped the audio signal flow out of IC6C #8 and if you pass it to the right and go into and loop thru the FX send and return connections its next encounter is being the pin #3 of IC6A.
Now that sole C section of IC 6 can be isolated by no FX-SEND------to-------FX-RETURN.
Can you try those two connection conditions to analyze probability of only IC6A at fault . . . . or else its an internal power distribution / avalanche break down fault that's affecting either one or all of its sections.

RELEVANT INFO . ..
FX_SND
to FX_RET circuitry connectivity is shown mid bottom of schema, just above the DRAWING REVISIONS BOX.

Considering that we now have FX_SND to FX_RET interconnected . . . .lets now travel further on down . . . The Yellow Brick Road ******

Signal is going into IC6A #3 and is amped out at IC6A #1 and travels left to center schema R84 where it drops down to pass audio into IC7A pin #2 . . . . AND ADDITIONALLY . . . going into a IC8A solid state analog switch 4053 IC8 switch section A that has the option of switching in the output of the earlier mentioned ULTRABASS amp cluster .
See if your front panel has that selector knob as its being either the 4th or 6th over (BLURRY Pic)
That switch sends turn on voltage to pin #11 of its analog switch section A to add in some degree of low freq audio from its out at the VR2A ULTRABASS control pot to the left . . . . . that being IF . . .you don't have that pot already sitting down a lower or no output level .
Now switch between the two bass positions for the possibility of your crackling originating over at the ULTRABASS cluster.

Otherwise you have continual common audio flowing into IC7A pin #2 and it exits . . . after being amped . . . at IC7A pin #1.
The audio then coming in from C6 takes a short and direct across top route and goes into an analog switch IC8 section B Pin # 2
The lower alternate shaping influenced path is having audio pass from C6 and go down and into
a closed loop tonal shaping cluster with initial entry into IC7B pin #6 and out its pin #7 and then pass down into IC7D pin #13 and out its pin #14 to loop back into pin #5 of IC7B. Confusing? Then just consider all of that adjustment and processing action, just influencing the aidio signal path between IC7B pin 6 to 7. Then you just take the influenced signal path as basically going from IC7B pin
#7 up and over thru R82 and then down into pin #9 if IC7C to be amped and outed at its pin #6 and then to the right to go into pin1 of analog switch IC6B.
Now . . . do you get it . . . . if you use the top section of SHAPE switch you analyzing for noise origin in IC7A section. If you move down to its alternate position the IC7B,C and D sections are involved.
In our last testing we were merely differentiating as to whether the SUPERBASS circuitry was the injected noise source.
The final audio path is now being from IC8B pin 15 and passing over to IC9C pin #9 for its amping up and outputting at its pin #8 and down and to the right to line out.



TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES . . . . .
(speshfully deesined fer 'dem/'dose whuts don'ts gots miimal mimul minnumul minnymal commun cents and toteully nuttin in buklarnin' spear-a-ints . . . . . . a'tall.)
Compliments of IVY league collegiate floor sweeping choremates . . . .
Delmer P.(ee) Dumbnuttz
Pratley P.(ee) Peterhaid


SUSPICIONS . . . .
That the pops / crackling might be originating in a particular I C section.
OR . . .that the power distribution portion, within the I C, might be affecting a select or all sections due to developed shot noise or voltage avalanching.
This will also need consideration of the 4053 analog switches .

INITIALCONSIDERATIONOFTWOWAYSONHOWTODOITTOIT . . . . .

We have tracked that audio from each given input and output of every IC and identified those involved pin numbers. As well, all inputs and outputs were defined.
NOW . . .take as simple of testing aid as is a mere 4.7 or 10 ufd E-cap ^^^^^, rated at the highest DC to be found on these components.
^^^^^^ If you are parts rich / blessed and happen to have a 1 thru 5 ? ufd paper /poly cap, that would work as well.
What you will be doing is taking that cap and ind initially . . . .and after EVERY test . . . shorting out its 2 leads to DC discharge it completely.
You say that you have used sequential probing of audio fed into an aux minor audio amp and seem to have found the " no noise" boundary, if so convinced, feel free to skip ahead to JUST before that point and do this.
You will successfully ground the caps neg lead (not so important/relevant on the conventional paper caps) and use its + lead to solder to or FIRMLY hold constant connect to the input or output of the I C section being evaluated.
EXPECT . . . .
1 . . . . . No affect at all
2 . . . . . Crackling or popping is still present
3 . . . . . That capacitors presence has now effected a tonal coloration of the sound with its POPS and CRACKLES and they are now transitioning to more subtle thumps . . . or maybe swamping on down to no noise at all . . . . until lifting off off the cap.

DISCHARGE THE E-CAP EVERY TIME AFTER TESTING AND MOVE ON DOWN THE SIGNAL PATH.

PHASE TWO . . . .

If uncertain by complete testing of every involved stages above, input and output pins.
Look up the power input pins of all of the involved I.C.'s including 4053's and review the sequential path of those being involved . Starting at audio origin/related IC, take solder sucker / flux / solder braid and remove solder to float that power input pin or lever its tab up out of solder if its being a Surface Mount /Flat Pack.
See if this procedure reveals a particular fault source.

Thaaaaaaaassssit . . . .

The Yellow Brick Road ******



73's de Edd . . . . . . . . . .
tenor.gif


One has two parts in their brain, “left” and “right”
In the left side, there’s nothing right and
In the right side, in time, there’s usually nothing left.

.
Amazing - thanks so much. I'll do a bit of investigation using your tips and get back asap!
Thanks again!
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Amazing - thanks so much. I'll do a bit of investigation using your tips and get back asap!
Thanks again!
WRT this question...
POINT OF INTEREST . . . . .
IF
your popping and crackling is being within the stages we traced so far . . . . .Question ? . . . . .
are those pops showing on the meter, either as mini or maxi meter blips ?

The meter seems dead - not registering crackles or any signal on any of the inputs.
 

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tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
55
Sir tom1970 . . . . . (so 'dat makes you 54yo ?)

Before you jump off the deep end with that EYE SEE 6 attempt . . . shudder . . . shudder . . .WAIT ! . . . lets initially do a signal flow path walk thru.
I am referencing to page 20 of supplied Pee Dee Eff . . . now you go therealso.

My consideration is perceiving that your prior testing was with audio signal input at X2 and/or X2 inputs and the final amplified and processed audio output at Line Output X7.

My analysis would be based upon either a single section of an op amp stage at fault for that random noise burst origin or an internal DC power distribution within one unit being disruptive to one or all of its stages.

Starting at top left corner X2-X3 inputs and watching the signal flow to the right thru stages . . . .
Initial input to pin12of IC3D output at pin # 14.
From # 14 signal audio output divides to an upper short processing path thru T1 FET and then into IC3C # 10 (its zero crossbar makes it look like an 8 or B).
The lower, longer audio path is thru #6 of IC3B and out #7 and then up to T9 and out of it into #9
of IC3C.
After boosting up within IC3C it goes out of #9 of IC3C and transports a DC signal and initially takes a DC path down and the to the right over to schemas top right corner.
In that area it then routes up into a D6 steering/isolation diode and its selected attenuative resistor and is being 1 of 2 inputs into IC6 INPUT meter driver amp pin # 5.

Going back to IC3C #8 the audio AC signal after passing thru C8 then passes down and to middle left of schema and into pin # 5 of IC4 of a ULTRA BASS BOOSTING cluster of components and goes out at pin #1 of IC4A.
We will touch upon this area again, when confirming, which position that you had a switch placed in.

We are back to IC3C #8 and thru C8 again, but with audio now going into IC3A pin #2 and amped and processed out as IC3A pin # 1 and is then coupled thru C4 and goes into multiple selective frequency tailoring adjustments which then go into IC6D pins # 13 and # 12 to immediately amp thru and come out #14 and go into an additional mixed stage of amplification at IC6C pin #10 and comes out at pin #8 of IC6 and passes thru steering/rectifier diode D4 with its selected attenuative resistor and is the second input of INPUT METER amp pin #5 of IC6B.

POINT OF INTEREST . . . . .
IF
your popping and crackling is being within the stages we traced so far . . . . .Question ? . . . . .
are those pops showing on the meter, either as mini or maxi meter blips ?
If so, and since the D4 and D6 are being shown as 1N4148's types and . . .IF . . .they happen to be the more serviceable leaded versions.. . . . . versus SM . . . . . taking a soldering iron and lifting one lead of D6 might then tell you of noise origin being in those few earlier stages.
Then there is the IC3-IC6 possibility by lifting one lead of D4.

We stopped the audio signal flow out of IC6C #8 and if you pass it to the right and go into and loop thru the FX send and return connections its next encounter is being the pin #3 of IC6A.
Now that sole C section of IC 6 can be isolated by no FX-SEND------to-------FX-RETURN.
Can you try those two connection conditions to analyze probability of only IC6A at fault . . . . or else its an internal power distribution / avalanche break down fault that's affecting either one or all of its sections.

RELEVANT INFO . ..
FX_SND
to FX_RET circuitry connectivity is shown mid bottom of schema, just above the DRAWING REVISIONS BOX.

Considering that we now have FX_SND to FX_RET interconnected . . . .lets now travel further on down . . . The Yellow Brick Road ******

Signal is going into IC6A #3 and is amped out at IC6A #1 and travels left to center schema R84 where it drops down to pass audio into IC7A pin #2 . . . . AND ADDITIONALLY . . . going into a IC8A solid state analog switch 4053 IC8 switch section A that has the option of switching in the output of the earlier mentioned ULTRABASS amp cluster .
See if your front panel has that selector knob as its being either the 4th or 6th over (BLURRY Pic)
That switch sends turn on voltage to pin #11 of its analog switch section A to add in some degree of low freq audio from its out at the VR2A ULTRABASS control pot to the left . . . . . that being IF . . .you don't have that pot already sitting down a lower or no output level .
Now switch between the two bass positions for the possibility of your crackling originating over at the ULTRABASS cluster.

Otherwise you have continual common audio flowing into IC7A pin #2 and it exits . . . after being amped . . . at IC7A pin #1.
The audio then coming in from C6 takes a short and direct across top route and goes into an analog switch IC8 section B Pin # 2
The lower alternate shaping influenced path is having audio pass from C6 and go down and into
a closed loop tonal shaping cluster with initial entry into IC7B pin #6 and out its pin #7 and then pass down into IC7D pin #13 and out its pin #14 to loop back into pin #5 of IC7B. Confusing? Then just consider all of that adjustment and processing action, just influencing the aidio signal path between IC7B pin 6 to 7. Then you just take the influenced signal path as basically going from IC7B pin
#7 up and over thru R82 and then down into pin #9 if IC7C to be amped and outed at its pin #6 and then to the right to go into pin1 of analog switch IC6B.
Now . . . do you get it . . . . if you use the top section of SHAPE switch you analyzing for noise origin in IC7A section. If you move down to its alternate position the IC7B,C and D sections are involved.
In our last testing we were merely differentiating as to whether the SUPERBASS circuitry was the injected noise source.
The final audio path is now being from IC8B pin 15 and passing over to IC9C pin #9 for its amping up and outputting at its pin #8 and down and to the right to line out.



TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES . . . . .
(speshfully deesined fer 'dem/'dose whuts don'ts gots miimal mimul minnumul minnymal commun cents and toteully nuttin in buklarnin' spear-a-ints . . . . . . a'tall.)
Compliments of IVY league collegiate floor sweeping choremates . . . .
Delmer P.(ee) Dumbnuttz
Pratley P.(ee) Peterhaid


SUSPICIONS . . . .
That the pops / crackling might be originating in a particular I C section.
OR . . .that the power distribution portion, within the I C, might be affecting a select or all sections due to developed shot noise or voltage avalanching.
This will also need consideration of the 4053 analog switches .

INITIALCONSIDERATIONOFTWOWAYSONHOWTODOITTOIT . . . . .

We have tracked that audio from each given input and output of every IC and identified those involved pin numbers. As well, all inputs and outputs were defined.
NOW . . .take as simple of testing aid as is a mere 4.7 or 10 ufd E-cap ^^^^^, rated at the highest DC to be found on these components.
^^^^^^ If you are parts rich / blessed and happen to have a 1 thru 5 ? ufd paper /poly cap, that would work as well.
What you will be doing is taking that cap and ind initially . . . .and after EVERY test . . . shorting out its 2 leads to DC discharge it completely.
You say that you have used sequential probing of audio fed into an aux minor audio amp and seem to have found the " no noise" boundary, if so convinced, feel free to skip ahead to JUST before that point and do this.
You will successfully ground the caps neg lead (not so important/relevant on the conventional paper caps) and use its + lead to solder to or FIRMLY hold constant connect to the input or output of the I C section being evaluated.
EXPECT . . . .
1 . . . . . No affect at all
2 . . . . . Crackling or popping is still present
3 . . . . . That capacitors presence has now effected a tonal coloration of the sound with its POPS and CRACKLES and they are now transitioning to more subtle thumps . . . or maybe swamping on down to no noise at all . . . . until lifting off off the cap.

DISCHARGE THE E-CAP EVERY TIME AFTER TESTING AND MOVE ON DOWN THE SIGNAL PATH.

PHASE TWO . . . .

If uncertain by complete testing of every involved stages above, input and output pins.
Look up the power input pins of all of the involved I.C.'s including 4053's and review the sequential path of those being involved . Starting at audio origin/related IC, take solder sucker / flux / solder braid and remove solder to float that power input pin or lever its tab up out of solder if its being a Surface Mount /Flat Pack.
See if this procedure reveals a particular fault source.

Thaaaaaaaassssit . . . .

The Yellow Brick Road ******



73's de Edd . . . . . . . . . .
tenor.gif


One has two parts in their brain, “left” and “right”
In the left side, there’s nothing right and
In the right side, in time, there’s usually nothing left.

.

Update...
Thanks again 73's de ED for this very detailed explanation. I'm not brilliant at this type of audio (better at tube amps) but can understand the gist of what's going on.

1. I rechecked with my very primitive signal probe (modded guitar cable plugged into a little amplifier I have) and we definitely have a clean and correct signal going through from the start to IC3A. It is also ok going into and through the ultrabass section (IC4 all good) but is lost by IC6 and thereafter in the path.
2. I tried the electrolytic cap grounding the ICs idea. The first pin I touched was pin 14 of IC6 and it made a popping sound and the crackles diminished and were somewhat replaced by more of a higher pitched quieter buzzing. This change remained after removing the lead of the cap but still no signal going through from IC6 onwards.
3. The diodes D4 and D6 are unfortunately SMD type so not easily lifted/replaced. I tested them in situ and they do seem to be working.
4. Here's a weird thing. I tried putting a signal into the latter part of the circuit at various points using a bass guitar and cable (the ground wire of the cable connected to the chassis and the signal connected to a probe). When I put the signal/probe on pin 9 or 13 (-ves) of IC9 we got sound but not on pins 8 or 14 (maybe that is to be expected with this op amp configuration (apologies as I am not strong on these components)). There was nothing at all on any of the pins of IC6 or 7 when I did this - apart from pin 13 of IC7 which caused a loud and alarming buzzing sound!

So does this mean that the faulty area is around IC6 AND 7 - if so which component is common to both and possibly causing the issue?

Cheers
Tom
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
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Joined
Aug 23, 2021
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Further update if anyone is interested. I still haven't managed to isolate the exact site of the issue BUT I've done a kind of fix by bypassing the EQ section by running a wire from the junction of C4, R7 and R53 to the junction of C13, R37 and R38 (just before the MASTER control). Basically everything around IC6 and IC7 was bad (no signal and buzzing or crackling) and I also found out that one of the opamps in IC3 also was not working - IC3a pin 1. However the signal goes around it via R52 R? and R53 and so it works running a jumper from the far side of R53 as stated before. Sound is good with no interference now and my friend is happy because he says he can use it as a basic PA instead but I'm still a bit frustrated at not being able to work out why that whole EQ section malfunctioned. But all in all a kind of win! Thanks everyone for your help on this and any further insights still appreciated as I still have the thing for a few days!
 

tom1970

Aug 23, 2021
55
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
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55
BTW anyone working on one of these note that the many of the schematic components names/codes do not exactly match those on the actual preamp. Often they are 1 number out so R39 might actually be R40 on the board. Makes it quite time consuming.
 
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