Bruderhof energy conservation

Last Saturday, PE Drew Gillett and I discussed solar heating and energy
savings with the Bruderhof Design/Build group near Albany, NY. They have
2 architects, 6 office people, and construction help as needed. They've
done outside work, eg airplane hangars, but lately they only work for the
Bruderhof, a Christian family organization with about 2000 members in 11
locations in England, Germany, Australia, and the US, in New York and
Pennsylvania. They plan to start 3 more locations in the next 3 years.

They started in Germany after WWI, then fled to England, where they lived
until just before WWII, when they all moved to Paraguay to avoid internment
of German members. They left Paraguay and came to Woodcrest in Rifton, NY
in 1954. Some are Quakers and Hutterites. Many still speak German. When I
mentioned a UU policy on "disruptive persons," someone replied "Christ and
his followers were disruptive persons. Christ said 'If you are near me, you
are near the fire,' and being near the fire is not necessarily comfortable."
Their web site has an article by Wendell Berry about how we are destroying
the earth and a modest proposal that we only draft people over 65.

As pacifists, they are concerned about using oil. Architect Pete Weeks
met me at the train station in one of their 10 Jettas powered by used
French fry oil :) Ours had a 5-gallon plastic tank in the trunk with
a heater loop from the radiator and a switch on the dash marked "Diesel"
and "Veg." You start on Diesel and switch to veg after a few minutes in
wintertime, and switch back to Diesel at the end. Their newer conversions
switch automatically. The fry oil comes from fast food places who save it
for pickup in 5 gallon containers. It gets filtered, then goes into the
plastic tanks. The Jetta fuel filters get changed 4 times per year,
because of particulate matter.

The Bruderhof live frugally, with 340 people and 30 buildings on 100 acres
at Woodcrest. The oldest member is 99. The youngest was born 2 weeks ago.
We reviewed plans for a new "2-family dwelling" (2 kitchens being the main
fire risk) for 50-60 people living as families and sharing facilities and
working in on-site businesses. The Woodcrest factory makes equipment for
disabled people. Other locations make wooden furniture, signs, and "Twinshot"
injection-molded plastics. Members file tax returns and declare "dividends,"
keeping the IRS happy under constantly shifting rules, even though they
have no income or bank accounts.

This year Woodcrest decided (by strict consensus, as usual) to leave the
heat off until Saturday November 20 and learn to live in 50 F buildings
with sweaters, as in England. The weather was mild, and they still hadn't
turned on the heat as of Sunday morning. They heat with oil and propane
and wood, 200 cords per year at Woodcrest, burned in large efficient
Bruderhof-built boilers with 380 F stack temperatures. Another location
has district heating. They burn wood chips ($900 for 30 cubic yards, like
oil at 15 cents per gallon) in a new automatic 2.5 million Btu/h boiler,
equivalent to about 50 home boilers. They are looking into cogeneration.

They've already come a long way in energy conservation. I didn't see one
incandescent bulb in my visit. I did see someone walk into a room, turn off
a 26 watt CF ceiling light, and turn on a 5 watt CF over a table.

Nick
 
S

Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
P

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

Jan 1, 1970
0
We just did another Mercedes WVO (waste vegetable oil) conversion this
past weekend, using a similar system to what you describe.

http://www.green-trust.org/2004/11/another-veggiebenz-conversion-finished.html

http://www.green-trust.org/wiki/index.php?title=VeggieBenz

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Did you find your missing fries, Nick ? You know, the ones
that make everyone say you're a few fries short of a happy meal ?

It gets filtered, then goes into the


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
S

SQLit

Jan 1, 1970
0
Last Saturday, PE Drew Gillett and I discussed solar heating and energy
savings with the Bruderhof Design/Build group near Albany, NY. They have
2 architects, 6 office people, and construction help as needed. They've
done outside work, eg airplane hangars, but lately they only work for the
Bruderhof, a Christian family organization with about 2000 members in 11
locations in England, Germany, Australia, and the US, in New York and
Pennsylvania. They plan to start 3 more locations in the next 3 years.

They started in Germany after WWI, then fled to England, where they lived
until just before WWII, when they all moved to Paraguay to avoid internment
of German members. They left Paraguay and came to Woodcrest in Rifton, NY
in 1954. Some are Quakers and Hutterites. Many still speak German. When I
mentioned a UU policy on "disruptive persons," someone replied "Christ and
his followers were disruptive persons. Christ said 'If you are near me, you
are near the fire,' and being near the fire is not necessarily comfortable."
Their web site has an article by Wendell Berry about how we are destroying
the earth and a modest proposal that we only draft people over 65.

As pacifists, they are concerned about using oil. Architect Pete Weeks
met me at the train station in one of their 10 Jettas powered by used
French fry oil :) Ours had a 5-gallon plastic tank in the trunk with
a heater loop from the radiator and a switch on the dash marked "Diesel"
and "Veg." You start on Diesel and switch to veg after a few minutes in
wintertime, and switch back to Diesel at the end. Their newer conversions
switch automatically. The fry oil comes from fast food places who save it
for pickup in 5 gallon containers. It gets filtered, then goes into the
plastic tanks. The Jetta fuel filters get changed 4 times per year,
because of particulate matter.

The Bruderhof live frugally, with 340 people and 30 buildings on 100 acres
at Woodcrest. The oldest member is 99. The youngest was born 2 weeks ago.
We reviewed plans for a new "2-family dwelling" (2 kitchens being the main
fire risk) for 50-60 people living as families and sharing facilities and
working in on-site businesses. The Woodcrest factory makes equipment for
disabled people. Other locations make wooden furniture, signs, and "Twinshot"
injection-molded plastics. Members file tax returns and declare "dividends,"
keeping the IRS happy under constantly shifting rules, even though they
have no income or bank accounts.

This year Woodcrest decided (by strict consensus, as usual) to leave the
heat off until Saturday November 20 and learn to live in 50 F buildings
with sweaters, as in England. The weather was mild, and they still hadn't
turned on the heat as of Sunday morning. They heat with oil and propane
and wood, 200 cords per year at Woodcrest, burned in large efficient
Bruderhof-built boilers with 380 F stack temperatures. Another location
has district heating. They burn wood chips ($900 for 30 cubic yards, like
oil at 15 cents per gallon) in a new automatic 2.5 million Btu/h boiler,
equivalent to about 50 home boilers. They are looking into cogeneration.

They've already come a long way in energy conservation. I didn't see one
incandescent bulb in my visit. I did see someone walk into a room, turn off
a 26 watt CF ceiling light, and turn on a 5 watt CF over a table.

Nick


I agree that it can be done. But most in the US are more interested in
status and their Hummers, Escalades or the Excursions. I am looking at
jumping off grid for my golden years, but that is at least 10 more away
right now.
 
P

PaPaPeng

Jan 1, 1970
0
one of their 10 Jettas powered by used
French fry oil :) Ours had a 5-gallon plastic tank in the trunk with
a heater loop from the radiator and a switch on the dash marked "Diesel"
and "Veg." You start on Diesel and switch to veg after a few minutes in
wintertime, and switch back to Diesel at the end. Their newer conversions
switch automatically. The fry oil comes from fast food places who save it
for pickup in 5 gallon containers. It gets filtered, then goes into the
plastic tanks. The Jetta fuel filters get changed 4 times per year,
because of particulate matter.



As someone who is interested in this kind of news I find them
interesting buy impractical for someone like me living alone. There
are way too many steps involved in having to do everything myself.
We willingly pay the price for having someone else do things for us so
that we have the time and means to do what we do best. I think many
nuclear families living independently would also have the same
problems of scale. Now when we have a reasonably large community
sharing the same mindset then conservation lifestyles and conservation
efforts can be implemented and sustained. Collecting waste cooking
oil for a community of a hundred will be a frugal and sustainable
practice. Its obvious this cannot apply to any community at large for
there won't be enough waste kitchen oil for everyone who might want to
convert to this alternative fuel source.
 
N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
This year Woodcrest decided (by strict
consensus, as usual) to leave the
heat off until Saturday November 20
and learn to live in 50 F buildings
with sweaters, as in England.

Do you mean the average Englishman lives in a house that is 50F inside? You
have to be joking of course. My house is a comfortable 73F, and always is,
and everyone else I know is the same.

Did your Dad tell you that? Was that what he saw in WW2 when rationing was
at its height and the Yanks chasing every English girl insight to take back
to the US with them. What was so bad about American women? :)
They heat with oil and propane
and wood, 200 cords per year at
Woodcrest, burned in large efficient
Bruderhof-built boilers with 380 F
stack temperatures. Another location
has district heating. They burn wood
chips ($900 for 30 cubic yards, like
oil at 15 cents per gallon) in a new
automatic 2.5 million Btu/h boiler,
equivalent to about 50 home boilers.
They are looking into cogeneration.

Denmark has macro-cogen in which a small city uses thermal heat stores the
size of a gas holders. The gas-fired power station produces electricity
mostly in two peaks, morning and evening. The houses connected to the
town's district heating system can be heated all night from the stored heat
until the power plant is fired up the next morning.

A scaled down home version can be done with off-peak electricity, however
you need a highly insulated and air tight house and a large highly insulated
thermal store to keep the house running through the day. The ideal heating
system is hydronic "very low temp" underflor heating system, which will
still operate when the thermal store has cooled considerably. A separate
smaller DHW day tank is best, as it will keep high grade heat for DHW
purposes, and be preheated by the larger thermal store.

The reason Denmark and Sweden have lowered the flow temperatures for heating
systems and stipulated a wide flow/return temp differential is primarily to
operate with macro CHP systems.

Scandinavia is the most energy efficient part of the world with little
wastage. You don't need to be a member of a minority religious sect to do
it, all it needs is political will, which will only come when the majority
of the people insist on it. Oh politics, can't get away from that stuff, so
I suppose I'll join a religious sect then. Can't win either way. :)
 
P

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

Jan 1, 1970
0
This year Woodcrest decided (by strict
consensus, as usual) to leave the
heat off until Saturday November 20
and learn to live in 50 F buildings
with sweaters, as in England.

Do you mean the average Englishman lives in a house that is 50F inside? You
have to be joking of course. My house is a comfortable 73F, and always is,
and everyone else I know is the same.[/QUOTE]

PLEASE !!!! Don't confuse Nick with facts, it fucks his
theories all up !
Did your Dad tell you that? Was that what he saw in WW2 when rationing was
at its height and the Yanks chasing every English girl insight to take back
to the US with them. What was so bad about American women? :)

Hey, we only took all the pretty ones :)



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you mean the average Englishman lives in a house that is 50F inside? You
have to be joking of course. My house is a comfortable 73F, and always is,
and everyone else I know is the same.

PLEASE !!!! Don't confuse Nick with facts, it fucks his
theories all up !
Did your Dad tell you that? Was that what he saw in WW2 when rationing was
at its height and the Yanks chasing every English girl insight to take back
to the US with them. What was so bad about American women? :)

Hey, we only took all the pretty ones :)[/QUOTE]

And a lot of American women were pissed off walking home from the dance by
themselves every week.
 
P

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

Jan 1, 1970
0
And a lot of American women were pissed off walking home from the dance by
themselves every week.

If only those Limey blokes could have afforded a liter of
petrol, they could have picked up those left-overs ...... :)




Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
If only those Limey blokes could
have afforded a liter of
petrol, they could have picked
up those left-overs ...... :)

Petrol? You need a car first. A war was going on, and a lot before the
Yanks came over.

Even with the girls going over to the USA (subsequent surveys revealed most
regretted leaving home), there was still a surplus of woman in the UK after
WW2. There must have been a hell of a lot of surplus women in the USA.
 
G

Gymy Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you saying there isn't enough real men in the USA?
 
P

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

Jan 1, 1970
0
Petrol? You need a car first. A war was going on, and a lot before the
Yanks came over.

Even with the girls going over to the USA (subsequent surveys revealed most
regretted leaving home), there was still a surplus of woman in the UK after
WW2. There must have been a hell of a lot of surplus women in the USA.

Yeh, we always like to keep a few extra on hand, just in
case :)



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
PaPaPeng said:
...Jettas powered by used French fry oil.
As someone who is interested in this kind of news I find them
interesting buy impractical for someone like me living alone. There
are way too many steps involved in having to do everything myself.
We willingly pay the price for having someone else do things for us so
that we have the time and means to do what we do best.

We talked about making a business of Jetta conversions and selling
used veg oil for 25 cents/gallon at a local fuel station. "Disposal"
costs about $100 per drum.
I think many nuclear families living independently would also have
the same problems of scale.

Being under one roof with a lower surface to volume ratio
conserves heating energy.
...Collecting waste cooking oil for a community of a hundred will be
a frugal and sustainable practice. Its obvious this cannot apply to
any community at large for there won't be enough waste kitchen oil
for everyone who might want to convert to this alternative fuel source.

I heard one estimate that used oil might replace 5-10% of our gasoline.
Some locations are more convenient than others. Pennsylvania has potato
chip factories...

Nick
 
M

Me

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pennsylvania has potato
chip factories...

Potato Chip Factories, recycle all their VeggieOil in house, by filtering
it and then pumping it back into the friers, then disposing of just the
solids. Local fast food joints don't have the time or money to recycle
their oil, so they are happy for an outsider to come take it off their
hands.

Me
 
J

Joel M. Eichen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Potato Chip Factories, recycle all their VeggieOil in house, by filtering
it and then pumping it back into the friers, then disposing of just the
solids.

That would be the extra-crispy right?
 
J

Joel M. Eichen

Jan 1, 1970
0
I checked with several local fast food places here in California. They all
said that State law requires them to recycle all waste and they have a service
that picks up the oil once a week. No "give a-ways" since it would not comply
with the law on recycling!

Besides, if you slipped while pouring the oil into your tank and it
went all over the parking lot, it would wreak havoc.
 
N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
TheDoc said:
?? From my experience they are the laziest bitches on the planet...

What all four of them ?

None of my sisters went over there!
 
P

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you saying there isn't enough real men in the USA?

These Woodcrest ( Bruderhof ) loonies also believe :

"Private Property is Sin"
http://www.bruderhof.com/articles/ea/PrivatePropertySin.htm

and a bunch of other similar nonsense.

They're about one step ahead of the Amish when it comes to
things like 'modern technology / standards'.

Kind of figures Nick would be tied up with them.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
 
R

Rod Speed

Jan 1, 1970
0
These Woodcrest ( Bruderhof ) loonies also believe :

Oh good, I've always been into sin and
I can manage this one very easily indeed.
and a bunch of other similar nonsense.
They're about one step ahead of the Amish when it
comes to things like 'modern technology / standards'.
Kind of figures Nick would be tied up with them.

Guess burning at the stake could be quite frugal.
 
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