Florescent light bulbs?

[Joseph Brenner]

Hey gang. Welcome to alt.gothic. Listened to any Bauhaus lately?


On the subject of fluorescent lights, it's seemed to me that some
of the newer, inexpensive ones (the spiral-shaped screw-in
models), emit a much more comfortable spectra than the old long
tube type that have been popular in office lighting for so long
[1]. I used to say that I couldn't stand fluorescent lights, but
these newer ones seem to emit a softer, yellow-tinted light.

Are they using a different substance in them that fluoresces at a
different frequency, or are they just using tricks with filtering the
light? I would imagine that filters would reduce their efficieny
somewhat...


[1] And were used on-stage behind David Bowie on the "Low" tour.

 

[Eeyore]

Except that the fluorescent quality control is terrible.

Around here, they burn out MORE often than incandescents.

What brand do you buy ?

Graham

 

[Tim Wescott]

Should be the other way around. Fluorescent should last much longer than
expected.

Well, 'should' has two interpretations. One is "is morally obliged to",
and indeed those bulbs _are_ morally obliged to last longer. The other
is "can be reasonably expected to", and in that case the answer is 'no';
at least not after my experiences.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Tim Wescott]

If a standard 100W incandescent bulb has a rated lifetime of 1000 hours
it'll use 100Kwh over its life,
The fluorescent equivalent uses 20W and (according to your claim) lasts just
2000 hours, so it uses 40Kwh over its life, which represents at least a 60%
saving.

Right. A florescent bulb costs $9.99, 40kWh costs diddly, and so does
an incandescent bulb.

diddly + diddly
--------------- << 1
$9.99

I'll stick with incandescents.

However, one of the features of the boondocks is that NOT MANY PEOPLE LIVE
THERE, so since most people can expect 5-8,000 hours from the same bulb,
they'll get 60 - 80% saving per year per bulb.

Didn't you pay _any_ attention to the last two presidential elections?
Even if you don't live in the USA I can't see how you could have avoided it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Eeyore]

Well, 'should' has two interpretations. One is "is morally obliged to",
and indeed those bulbs _are_ morally obliged to last longer. The other
is "can be reasonably expected to", and in that case the answer is 'no';
at least not after my experiences.

What lifetimes have you been getting and what make are they ?

My Philips and Osram CFLs have been fine.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Google, or a quick trip to your local hardware store will give you a
much better answer than waiting for one of us to ferret out sale prices
in your neighbor hood.

99 pence for 2 here in St Albans at Morrisons supermarket ( 11 and 18W sizes ).

Graham

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

But does it cost less to actually buy the bulbs? I don't remember how
much Al Gore said a package of florescents costs.

Google, or a quick trip to your local hardware store will give you a
much better answer than waiting for one of us to ferret out sale prices
in your neighbor hood.

 

[Eeyore]

A florescent bulb costs $9.99

Mine cost £0.49 !

Look harder

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Hey gang. Welcome to alt.gothic. Listened to any Bauhaus lately?


On the subject of fluorescent lights, it's seemed to me that some
of the newer, inexpensive ones (the spiral-shaped screw-in
models), emit a much more comfortable spectra than the old long
tube type that have been popular in office lighting for so long
[1]. I used to say that I couldn't stand fluorescent lights, but
these newer ones seem to emit a softer, yellow-tinted light.

Are they using a different substance in them that fluoresces at a
different frequency, or are they just using tricks with filtering the
light? I would imagine that filters would reduce their efficieny
somewhat...

The guy that started this thread had a question on incandescent
MTBF. I'm not sure the question was answered, but he probably knows a
lot about fluorescent spirals, now.

But in answer to your question, the mini-spirals have either 3, or 4,
(depending on cost,) layers of phosphor in the tube, each emitting
narrow band light to approximate covering the entire visible
spectrum-it does not cover the spectrum totally, (photographers
beware.) The "color" of the light is usually expressed in degrees K
stamped on the side of the electronic ballast, (or some other consumer
euphemism, like "DayLight," "SunLight," etc.,) right next to the
cautionary label about using the light near navigation or
communication equipment that functions in the few tens of mHz. range
do to RFI emitted by the harmonics of the 20 kHz.+ electronic
ballast. (Sometimes these are printed only on the plastic
packaging-along with temperature range, typically 20F-140F, otherwise
the lamp won't start-or give less lumens output-and some instructions
about not mounting the lamp upside down, or in an enclosed space
because the heat fries the electronic ballast-it varies by
manufacturer.) The reliability numbers, and lumens / Watt, are given
for STP operation, and limited, (for the inexpensive lamps,) by the
electronic ballast, which means components of 50K hrs. (10 years
"system" reliability for 5 components, 4 hrs. / day,) for commodity
electronics.

John

 

[Kevin White]

....

an incandescent bulb.

diddly + diddly
--------------- << 1
$9.99

I'll stick with incandescents.

....

I don't know about "diddly". 40kWh costs me about $8 (in SF Bay area)
and the last time I bought CF lamps I got a six pack in Costco for
about $7.99.

$0.50 + $8
--------------- >> 1
$1.30

kevin

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

What brand do you buy ?

Graham

We generally get the Philips Marathon ones in 8-packs. I don't trust
the no-name bargain brands, and the price difference isn't worth many
seconds of time. Also Osram/Sylvania BR-30 style floods. Power quality
is pretty good here; that might make a difference. They seem to last
and last, even some that are left on 24/7.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[JM]

I got my flourescent bulbs with standard sockets at the local Ace Hardware
Store. You can also get them at Home Depot and even at CVS Pharmacy.

Every lightbulb in my house is florescent except for the ceiling
floodlights.

Bob Kolker

To me the main advantage in using CF bulbs is not having to continually go
through the house changing bulbs. I will note that some brands do have a
quality control problem, I have had a couple with intermittent ballasts and
one with a cracked tube where it enters the base.

I am saving the intermittent ones, when I have enough to warrant the time I
will pop open the base and reflow the solder connections.

I pay around $3 or so in packs of four from Home Depot or Lowes.

John

 

[NightMist]

Just so all of you math and science minded folks know:

I will cross post anoying messages to the sci hierarchy to alt.goth if
you don't. And make sure 100s of responses from anoyed scients come to
the group every day.

I think the post below was his way of firing a shot across the bows.
Plenty of math/sci goths, but if he is going to post stupid stuff to
y'all just to generate responses over here you might want to at least
have an eye on the crossposts before ripping him a new one.

NightMist
wandering back to the goth group while humming "Single Cells"

 

[Eeyore]

We generally get the Philips Marathon ones in 8-packs. I don't trust
the no-name bargain brands, and the price difference isn't worth many
seconds of time. Also Osram/Sylvania BR-30 style floods. Power quality
is pretty good here; that might make a difference. They seem to last
and last, even some that are left on 24/7.

I've had good results too with Philips and Osram.

Some have lasted extraordinary lengths of time and a few I've only replaced not
because they failed but becasue they were getting a bit dim after years of use.

The latest bunch I got for a ridiculously low price are just the 6000 hr ones.
I've yet to discover what they're like but then again it's difficult to keep
track of which one's which now !

Graham

 

[qrk]

Al Gore came on Opera yesterday and said we could save 20% of the
energy our light bulbs use if we switched to more expensive florescent
bulbs. These bulbs last longer you know. But are you aware that the
light bulb companies are conspiring to keep florescent bulbs off the
market? They charge you more for them already, but Tesla invented a
florescent bulb that is still burning in the Tesla Museum 50 years
later. If we all used his bulbs we would never have to worry about
screwing in light bulbs. So the answer to the most important question
of the day: How many scientists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Really should be none. Because we don't have to ever change our light
bulbs in an ideal world.

But can anyone tell me how I can get a hold of one of these Tesla bulbs?

I bet Al invented the florescent lamp!

Instead of using toxic illuminators (our fine city has classified
florescent lamps as hazardous material), Cree has some white LEDs that
are close to the efficiency of florescent lamps. They should last
longer and won't break when a juggling club smacks the assembly.

 

[joseph2k]

Actually, the savings may be negative.

A fluorescent closet light is LESS efficient than an incadescent when
total lifteime costs are considered.

In general, fluorescents make sense if the lamp is continuously run more
than four hours a day.

A reasonable guess is that fluorescents are only cost effective in ONE
HALF of most home light sockets.

If you are talking about 1940's fluorescent; modern CF's have about 4 times
the lumens per watt than incandescants. The kicker is they also have 4
times the life. If you have a lot of lamps to maintain that adds up fast.

 

[joseph2k]

science asside, economics are what will eventually determine the
maximum efficency of light bulbs. if a company makes bulbs that last
significanly longer than their counterparts, that company will do well
for a short term but eventually less bulbs will be needed and thus less
will be bought. when less are bought, less are made. when less are
made, less people are needed to make them. when less people are
needed, the company moves to a third world country and pays a three
year old 50 cents a week to make light bulbs. efficiency of use is
great, and alternative energy is a must, and not turning the planet
into a dust bowl is a worthy goal. but environmentalism and economics
must find a way to coexist.

What an incredible package of non-sequiters. If you want to be credible
here, you cannot skip steps here.

 

[Helmut Wabnig]

Al Gore came on Opera yesterday and said we could save 20% of the
energy our light bulbs use if we switched to more expensive florescent
bulbs. These bulbs last longer you know. But are you aware that the
light bulb companies are conspiring to keep florescent bulbs off the
market? They charge you more for them already, but Tesla invented a
florescent bulb that is still burning in the Tesla Museum 50 years
later. If we all used his bulbs we would never have to worry about
screwing in light bulbs. So the answer to the most important question
of the day: How many scientists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Really should be none. Because we don't have to ever change our light
bulbs in an ideal world.

But can anyone tell me how I can get a hold of one of these Tesla bulbs?

Fluorescent bulbs create a considerable EMF disturbance radiation.
I don't like them for that reason, because they pollute all radio
bands from longwave to VHF.

Besides this, they do not live that long, at least not 13 times the
lifespan of an incandescent bulb.

The purported longer life is simply a lie.

w.

 

[Bob Kolker]

What brand do you buy ?

So far, my spiral shaped flourescent bulbs have outlasted "long life"
incandescents by three to one. So on a per bulb cost I am ahead and on
the cost of electricity to energize the bulbs I am ahead.

I get the kind they sell at Home Depot. I don't know the brand exactly.
The Home Depot product is sold under a store brand and I do not know the
manufacturer. But the product is quite satisfactory.

The only downsides of the flurescents are that the glow a dull orangy
yellow until the temperature comes up. That takes about 30 seconds to a
minute. Also with some fixtures (like my desk lamp) they protrude an
inch or so beyond the hood portion of the lamp. No big deal.

Bob Kolker

 

[Bob Kolker]

Right. A florescent bulb costs $9.99, 40kWh costs diddly, and so does
an incandescent bulb.

I get mine for half that. My flurescent bulbs are going on over a year
old which is well over ten thosand hours apiece. The bulb which produces
a brightness equivalent to a 100 watt incandescent consumes 30 watts. So
they last three times longer (at least) and burn less than one third the
electricty. It sounds like a win.

If there is a Home Depot or a CVS Pharmacy near you look into it. Also
the Ace Hardware chain has sales on flurescent lights. so you can save
up to fifty percent on the standard retail price. I have.

diddly + diddly
--------------- << 1
$9.99

I'll stick with incandescents.

An incandescent 100 watter will last 3000 hours. That is 300,000 watt
hours or 3KwHr. If you have ten in the house that is 30kwHrs.

You can cut that down to 10kwHrs. The main saving is on lifetime.

The more light you use, the more you save on both the replacement cost
and the operating cost.

Bob Kolker