Gordon Moore on explosives, and semiconductors

[Bob Monsen]

I'm presently serving on the Phoenix Library Bond Subcommittee.

Three new libraries are going into the poorest sections of town, and
all will be accessible by mass transit as well.

...Jim Thompson

Kudos

 

[Bob Monsen]

Such a terrible waste of money to grind up trees, sprinkle them with
pigment, then ship them around the globe. Much better to spend the
political energy making sure that books can be made available online
and then spend the money on making sure everyone has Internet access.

There is a $100/laptop thing going on (http://laptop.media.mit.edu/)

My kids both carry about 40 lbs of books to school in their backpacks. The
teachers rarely if ever refer to them, but require them to be brought in,
just in case.

A 'dynabook' (http://www.artmuseum.net/w2vr/timeline/Kay.html) would sure
be nice. Weighs a pound. Upload any assignments via classroom wireless.
Schools could buy contracts for some number of downloadings of textbooks,
and students wouldn't have to use science textbooks written in 1983 (I'm
not making this up). Students could turn in assignments by wireless or
email, and surf the web if their teacher is boring or stupid.

Why not? All the technology is there, and $100 less than the cost of most
college textbooks.

 

[Robert Baer]

There is a $100/laptop thing going on (http://laptop.media.mit.edu/)

My kids both carry about 40 lbs of books to school in their backpacks. The
teachers rarely if ever refer to them, but require them to be brought in,
just in case.

A 'dynabook' (http://www.artmuseum.net/w2vr/timeline/Kay.html) would sure
be nice. Weighs a pound. Upload any assignments via classroom wireless.
Schools could buy contracts for some number of downloadings of textbooks,
and students wouldn't have to use science textbooks written in 1983 (I'm
not making this up). Students could turn in assignments by wireless or
email, and surf the web if their teacher is boring or stupid.

Why not? All the technology is there, and $100 less than the cost of most
college textbooks.

This business of requiring *children* to lug many pounds of weight on
their growing frame (and thereby deforming them for life) is inexcusable
bullshit, and the schools should be sued for billions of dollars to get
their attention, and then stop.
When i grew up and had a fair number of books for school, there were
*lockers* in the school for them and we were given the combination.
After one class let out, we would go to our locker and place the one
or two books from that class, and remove the one or two for the next class.
There may be one or two classes that requierd homework on a given
night, so two or three books would be taken home.
What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Robert Baer

What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Books claimed that locking
them up for most of the day and all night infringed their basic librian
rights. BOOKS MUST BE FREE!

 

[SioL]

This business of requiring *children* to lug many pounds of weight on their growing frame (and thereby deforming them for life)
is inexcusable bullshit, and the schools should be sued for billions of dollars to get their attention, and then stop.
When i grew up and had a fair number of books for school, there were *lockers* in the school for them and we were given the
combination.
After one class let out, we would go to our locker and place the one or two books from that class, and remove the one or two for
the next class.
There may be one or two classes that requierd homework on a given night, so two or three books would be taken home.
What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

Fear of someone placing a bomb in there, that's what.
They've dissapeared from airports, too, probably for the same reason.

 

[Robert Latest]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:03:14 -0700,

Making a hydrogen balloon, creating
synthetic rubber, watching oozing carbon monoliths grow from sugar and
sulfuric acid, smelling sweet menthol made from aspirin, identifying barium
from its scarlet flame color, extracting pungent chlorine from table salt,
or growing crystals of silver from solution, were all delights during my
junior high and high school years.

Wait -- are they not any more? Explosives are (possibly) different
matter, but all this is harmelss stuff.

Don't forget potassium + water, and the arsenic mirror experiment (which
blows up most of the time).

Though I skipped nitro,

I didn't, but the main thrill wasn't its power but the fact that one had
made actual nitroglycerine. Regular black poder or chlorate-enhanced
variants thereof had higher entertainment value. Back then (20 years
ago) I could buy most the necessary ingredients in any pharmacy (and my
father would get the others). I don't know if that's true any mor.

robert

 

[Robert Latest]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:34:42 -0700,

I think that trees and soybeans (for the ink) are significantly more
"renewable" than the components of a PC, no?
Absolutely.

That being said, for a kid born today having (free) Internet access probably
is about as important as free book access was to a kid some 30 years ago;

Maybe. But there are hardly any websites that can compete with a good
textbook, quality-wise. The Internet (as this newsgroup) is great as a
medium for the exchange of ideas among people who already have a grasp
of the subject. This may of course change in the future.

robert

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Robert Latest

among people who already have a grasp of the subject.

.... and a good few who don't.

 

[Ignoramus14838]

My own chemical adventures included making rockets, smoke generators
and moonshine.

i

Fascinating talk tonight by Gordon Moore of Intel, at the Computer History
Museum in Mountain View, Carver Mead acting as interviewer. (For those who
don't know them, Moore was a co-founder of Fairchild Semiconductor and later
Intel, and a seminal figure in that industry; Carver Mead a professor in
related specialties, in contact with Moore since 1959.) Audience included
Intel alumni and journalists. Occasion was 40th anniversary of "Moore's
law" which predicted in 1965 the doubling of semiconductor density
periodically, "for at least the next 10 years" (it continues today).

Moore spent some of his time on explosives, and their popularity as a
motivator for technical careers, a popularity that proves to be surprisingly
wide. That will presumably be the main interest in this note, but first a
little more about semiconductors. (First the broccoli, then dessert!)

Moore's original 1965 article in _Electronics_ (I picked up a copy)
projected integrated circuits (ICs) becoming commonplace in products like
car control systems, home computers, portable telephones. "The electronic
wristwatch needs only a display to be feasible today." He included
projections such as the curve that became Moore's Law (Carver Mead, I
understand, coined that name later), based at the time only on 1959-1965
density data. He explained to us that the whole motivation of the article
was to "sell" the idea of ICs to the electronics industry which regarded
them, at the time, as expensive and exotic, of interest only for high-priced
apps in military or aerospace. Moore provided data suggesting otherwise,
that ICs would become mainstream technology, which is obvious now,
after-the-fact. Later he mentioned some of the magnitudes of integrated
component manufacture now; 10 to the 18th power of transistors produced
annually, comparable to the number of letters in printed documents -- and a
transistor on an IC is now cheaper, on average, than a readable text
character printed on paper.

Moore was a chemist by training, and explained that he got into chemistry
originally as a child because a neighbor got a chemistry set -- "they had
good stuff in them in those days!" -- and quickly became skilled at blowing
things up. He made nitroglycerin, which he would detonate by putting a
drop on a piece of filter paper and striking it with a hammer on an iron
anvil. This made a very sharp crack, and would leave his ears ringing for
an hour or two. Moore explained that this damaged his hearing, and led to
his later relying on a hearing aid. This was around Redwood City,
California, where his father was a deputy sheriff. At one point, officials
found a collection of tools somewhere that looked like they were for
cracking open safes, and a little bottle of yellowish liquid, which had them
concerned. As Moore told it, his father called him in on the case (he was
still an adolescent) and he tested a drop of the liquid with his
filter-paper technique, and it blew. The deputies were then worried about
how to dispose of the nitro, but Moore stepped forward eagerly -- "I'll take
care of that." (He held up both hands to us, in the proud sign of the
successful explosives hobbyist: All digits present.) They also made
rockets, he said, but good rockets were difficult -- "it was much easier to
blow things up."

Later at Cal Tech when he was a grad student in chemistry, someone did a
survey and found that 80% of the Chem grad students got into it via
fireworks and explosives. Amazing!

--

 

[Jim Thompson]

This business of requiring *children* to lug many pounds of weight on
their growing frame (and thereby deforming them for life) is inexcusable
bullshit, and the schools should be sued for billions of dollars to get
their attention, and then stop.
When i grew up and had a fair number of books for school, there were
*lockers* in the school for them and we were given the combination.
After one class let out, we would go to our locker and place the one
or two books from that class, and remove the one or two for the next class.
There may be one or two classes that requierd homework on a given
night, so two or three books would be taken home.
What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

The kids might have a "stash" there ;-)

School bureaucracies have gone nuts in recent years. Here, last week,
they decided a 17 year old couldn't carry his diabetes test kit with
him, since it had SHARP lancets.

A lawyer changed their minds real fast ;-)

I think it's time we tarred and feathered every school board member
and took our schools back to parental control.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Keith Williams]

The kids might have a "stash" there ;-)

School bureaucracies have gone nuts in recent years. Here, last week,
they decided a 17 year old couldn't carry his diabetes test kit with
him, since it had SHARP lancets.

A lawyer changed their minds real fast ;-)

I think it's time we tarred and feathered every school board member
and took our schools back to parental control.

Start by taking control back from the teachers and give it to the school board
(at least they're voted into office). One local board is trying (teachers are
now on strike for 5.8% per year for three years + reductions in insurance co-
pay).

 

[Jim Thompson]

[email protected] says... [snip]

Start by taking control back from the teachers and give it to the school board
(at least they're voted into office). One local board is trying (teachers are
now on strike for 5.8% per year for three years + reductions in insurance co-
pay).

I don't think teachers can strike in Arizona. At least I can't recall
of any since the early '70's.

Back then I "scabbed" and taught 8th grade math.

The little punks tried to give me a hard time, first asking, "Are you
a teacher or JUST a parent?"

But I got control pretty fast... took a troublemaker out in the
hallway, told him to look around. "Do you see anyone? Next time you
cause trouble I'm going to bring you out here and kick the crap out of
you, and no one will ever know."

After that, nary a problem ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:34:42 -0700,


Maybe. But there are hardly any websites that can compete with a good
textbook, quality-wise. The Internet (as this newsgroup) is great as a
medium for the exchange of ideas among people who already have a grasp
of the subject. This may of course change in the future.

robert

Have you ever read "Lucifer's Hammer", by Larry Niven and Jerry
Pournelle? It's a huge novel about a dinosaur-killer grade meteor
hitting the Earth, but since it's contemporary, they had weeks of
advance warning, for whatever that was worth. One of the main
characters, in preparing for the disaster, took all of the books
off his shelves, triple-bagged them, and tossed them into his
septic tank.

Another side note was a nuclear power plant, that just happened
to have very tall berms all of the way around, because the greenies
had convinced the authorities to "hide" the nuke plant. It survived
the tsunami and flooding, and of course, was instrumental in the
recovery of civilization. A pretty good read, actually.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

This business of requiring *children* to lug many pounds of weight on
their growing frame (and thereby deforming them for life) is inexcusable
bullshit, and the schools should be sued for billions of dollars to get
their attention, and then stop.

This sounds just a little bit hysterical. No kid is going to carry around
stuff that's so heavy that it will actually deform them. (they'll just
say, "**** You!") If you're talking about some kind of preschool that they
shuffle the SPMs off to before their bones are fully formed, that's the
fault of the mindless breeders.

When i grew up and had a fair number of books for school, there were
*lockers* in the school for them and we were given the combination.
After one class let out, we would go to our locker and place the one
or two books from that class, and remove the one or two for the next
class.
There may be one or two classes that requierd homework on a given
night, so two or three books would be taken home.
What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

The politically paranoid probably banned them because they're afraid
all of the kids will store their bombs there, or deal drugs out of
them. ;-P

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

What the (&*#%(*&&*(# hell happened to LOCKERS??????????????????/

The kids might have a "stash" there ;-) ....
I think it's time we tarred and feathered every school board member
and took our schools back to parental control.

...Jim Thompson[/QUOTE]

Well, that would have been a good idea some years ago, but I'm afraid
that they've been dumbing down the schools so bad, for so long, that
today's "parents" are even stupider than their sprog. I was extremely
lucky in that respect - my Mom didn't have labor pains (the family's
favorite joke was that I was almost born in a toilet - my Mom was
taking a leak when her water broke), so I didn't get the "normal"
brain damage from being forcibly expelled through a reluctant canal - I
just slipped right out, or so they tell me. But I was Mom's third,
so whe was probably physically pretty well-prepared for it. Then,
I think the magickal part is that she would set me on her lap and
read to me, following along the words with her finger. By the time
I was 7, I was reading the encyclopedia ("Richard's Topical Encyclopedia")
recreationally. I also read my 5-years-older-than-I-am brother's
schoolbooks, which gave me kind of a "leg up". There was also some
great TeeVee back in those days, like when Walt Disney and Bell Labs
actually televised edjamacational stuff, but did it so well that you
didn't realize you were being edjamacated.

But yes, useless administrators (and union bosses, and money sinks
in general, and the politicos that let it happen) should be tarred and
feathered, and run out of town on a rail!

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:03:14 -0700,


Wait -- are they not any more? Explosives are (possibly) different
matter, but all this is harmelss stuff.

Don't forget potassium + water, and the arsenic mirror experiment (which
blows up most of the time).


I didn't, but the main thrill wasn't its power but the fact that one had
made actual nitroglycerine. Regular black poder or chlorate-enhanced
variants thereof had higher entertainment value. Back then (20 years
ago) I could buy most the necessary ingredients in any pharmacy (and my
father would get the others). I don't know if that's true any mor.

robert

I'll never forget the time in about 9th grade chem class, where they
were teaching us how to identify a bottle of a gas with a burning wood
splint. Nitrogen puts it out, oxygen makes it flare up and burn white-
hot, and hydrogen quietly burns with an almost invisible pale blue
flame (although I've heard that a hydrogen flame in air makes UV).
We made the H2 and O2 by electrolysis, which was way cool, and
lessee - heated up some potassium permanganate with manganese
dioxide catalyst, and made oxygen, and made hydrogen with zinc
and HCl solution. Anyway, one day, when we came into class, the teacher
had one of those collection bottles, and got one of the kids to volunteer
to come up to the front of the class and put the burning splint to the
mouth of the bottle, just as he took off its lid.

It had hydrogen and oxygen in it. BOOM! The poor gal almost shat.
The windows rattled, and there were 29 secondary "plop"s when all
of the kids' butts landed back in their chairs. I swear, I saw
a flame four feet long, albeit almost instantaneously. I can't
imagine "them" letting anything like that happen again - in fact,
even at the time, I thought it was pretty stupid to make an
explosion like that in a glass bottle that you're holding in
your hand. =:-O

Oh, yeah, that's the same class where I flashed some CS2. That
was very weird - for a few seconds, the whole world was blue
flame, and then, of course, I found myself breathing SO2.

Ah, those were the good old days!

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Back then I "scabbed" and taught 8th grade math.

The little punks tried to give me a hard time, first asking, "Are you
a teacher or JUST a parent?"

But I got control pretty fast... took a troublemaker out in the
hallway, told him to look around. "Do you see anyone? Next time you
cause trouble I'm going to bring you out here and kick the crap out of
you, and no one will ever know."

After that, nary a problem ;-)

Gee, Jim. Do you really have to threaten a 13 year old make you feel
like a man?

 

[keith]

[email protected] says... [snip]

Start by taking control back from the teachers and give it to the school board
(at least they're voted into office). One local board is trying (teachers are
now on strike for 5.8% per year for three years + reductions in insurance co-
pay).

I don't think teachers can strike in Arizona. At least I can't recall
of any since the early '70's.

They can't in NY either, but they do. Teachers have an amazingly
powerfull union.

Back then I "scabbed" and taught 8th grade math.

Good! We need more of it.

The little punks tried to give me a hard time, first asking, "Are you
a teacher or JUST a parent?"

But I got control pretty fast... took a troublemaker out in the
hallway, told him to look around. "Do you see anyone? Next time you
cause trouble I'm going to bring you out here and kick the crap out of
you, and no one will ever know."

After that, nary a problem ;-)

I guess he was asking you if he could get away with shit, like he did with
teachers. ...and the answer was that you weren't a wimpy teacher. ;-)

 

[jim dorey]

A pretty good read, actually.

i second.

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

This sounds just a little bit hysterical. No kid is going to carry around
stuff that's so heavy that it will actually deform them. (they'll just
say, "**** You!") If you're talking about some kind of preschool that they
shuffle the SPMs off to before their bones are fully formed, that's the
fault of the mindless breeders.

Bones are only fully formed around the age of 30.
However, the real damage is done to those who are still growing, and that can be
as late as 20.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org