HP11C emulators?

[krw]

sci.electronics.design, [email protected]
says...

Yes, I'll chekc out xcalc.



Did a web search and found some but all were lacking ENG notation.
That's really important, especially when tired. Too easy to miss a
decimal point.

XCALC has ENG notation (SCI, FIX, and BIN too, but no BinPt).

AFAIK PDAs don't have stellar battery life. That's the most important
parameter to me with all things portable. The HP11C is the secret hero
in that domain. It ran 15 (!) years on the first set. Only my wife's
alarm clock that she got from our ultrasound company beats that. Over 20
years on the first battery and still humming.

Should be several hours, no? My old WorkPad was certainly good for
one work day.

Sad. I don't really understand people who do that.

I think one of my Fluke 77s followed it.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

Doesn't HP still use the keys with the color molded in (like
Model-M's)?

No. I goofed. HP does that with some of their test equipment.
However, all the calculators are apparently silk screen. Sorry(tm).

What got my attention was the lousy quality of the silk screening on
the HP35s as compared to other HP models. For example:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/hp-calc/HP35s-keys.jpg>
Note the blue label "Sums" on the right center key. Some of the other
keys have problems, but this is the worst.

It's a bit difficult to see in the photo, but the white silk screening
seems somewhat thin as compared to my other HP calculators. I haven't
tried hitting it with my usual cleaner as I'm worried about disolving
off the silk screening.

That's the way I generally justify new tools, but SFMBO would never
buy the calculator-sink connection. Now I just tell her that stuff
is a business expense. ;-)

Ummmm.... buy it this year (before Tuesday) so you can deduct it on
this years taxes?

 

[krw]

No. I goofed. HP does that with some of their test equipment.
However, all the calculators are apparently silk screen. Sorry(tm).
Bummer.

What got my attention was the lousy quality of the silk screening on
the HP35s as compared to other HP models. For example:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/hp-calc/HP35s-keys.jpg>
Note the blue label "Sums" on the right center key. Some of the other
keys have problems, but this is the worst.

That's terrible! HP sure has gone down the tubes. Carley sure did
some damage!

It's a bit difficult to see in the photo, but the white silk screening
seems somewhat thin as compared to my other HP calculators. I haven't
tried hitting it with my usual cleaner as I'm worried about disolving
off the silk screening.


Ummmm.... buy it this year (before Tuesday) so you can deduct it on
this years taxes?

Way ahead of you (bought a new ThinkPad last month). ;-) Though I
really need a calculator with a good binary mode. ...seems so
simple to do, but I've never seen one. I generally have the laptop
with me so XCALC does pretty much what I need. If I can get the
'45 working reliably I may carry that in the laptop case. I'm
still thinking about the '35s. Your information doesn't do
anything for my case. :-(

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

That's terrible! HP sure has gone down the tubes. Carley sure did
some damage!

I don't think there's much wrong with the basic design or firmware of
the HP35s. In fact, I like it. However, parts of the production
quality puzzle is slightly lacking. I don't think you can blame that
on Carly.

Though I
really need a calculator with a good binary mode. ...seems so
simple to do, but I've never seen one.

I seem to have accumulated a number of "programmers calculators". Most
are antiques, but the HP16c, is the one that I sometimes use:

I generally have the laptop
with me so XCALC does pretty much what I need.

That works if you don't mind waiting for it to boot, load the program,
complain about updates, etc. I like the calculator because it's
instantly ready.

What I want is a conglomerated financial and scientific calculator. My
HP12c financial does exponentials, but no trig functions. Close, but
not close enough. I'm still searching for the ultimate hand
calculator.

If I can get the
'45 working reliably I may carry that in the laptop case. I'm
still thinking about the '35s. Your information doesn't do
anything for my case. :-(

The HP35s has lots of nifty and handy features (exept no financial
functions). For about $50, it's good enough.

If you want more features and horsepower, I suggest the HP50g (for 3
times the cost of the HP35s):
<http://www.hp.com/calculators/graphing/50g/index.html>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hp49g+#HP_50g>

I have problems focusing my eyes on the 0.3" LED displays on the HP35
and HP45. I used to use those as my primary calculators or many
years, but when my eyesight started crapping out, I had to switch to
larger LCD displays. Grumble...

 

[Joel Koltner]

Thanks, I'll try that. As long as it's RPN I should be able to get used to
it. But first my wife wants me to repair the dreaded sink. Drips a bit,
those darn compression joints.

Is it a sin to just go and put a bunch of epoxy over the entire affair? Sure,
makes it impossible to ever get apart again without a hacksaw, but at least
you've put off the trip to the hardware store...

 

[Jim Thompson]

Is it a sin to just go and put a bunch of epoxy over the entire affair? Sure,
makes it impossible to ever get apart again without a hacksaw, but at least
you've put off the trip to the hardware store...

BAD! Any time you need to open one of those joints you should replace
those crufty plastic gaskets... they compress correctly ONCE ONLY :-(

A little itty bitty drip can destroy a wooden house.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joel Koltner]

The HP35s has lots of nifty and handy features (exept no financial
functions). For about $50, it's good enough.

It also has some rather serious bugs, though -- see the list at
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=735. Bug
#15 -- where the computed result is wrong -- is one I stumbled across while
programming a "real" application, and bug #16 -- that effectively erases
everything in the calculator -- has been encountered by others in real-life
usage scenarios as well.

I agree it's still a good calculator, but I'm been slowly switching back to a
50g. Definitely somewhat bulkier and spendier, but much, much more powerful.
While it's not 100% bug-free either, AFAIK all the really *bad* bugs (similar
to #15/#16) have been eradicated. (It's a complex enough device that some
generally obscure bugs are pretty much inevitable and doesn't really lower my
opininon of the design, whereas with the 35s those bugs are bad enough that HP
should at the very least be letting people know about them if not immediately
fixing them and offering replacements LIKE THEY DID WITH THE ORIGINAL HP-35
ALL OF 35 YEARS AGO, yet like most companies today HP in no way whatsoever
publically acknowledges any of the bugs in the 35s. Sad...)

---Joel

 

[Joel Koltner]

AFAIK PDAs don't have stellar battery life. That's the most important
parameter to me with all things portable.

Does that include your call phone?

Just get yourself either a Palm-based (Treo) or Windows Mobile-based phone.
All the power of a PDA and, since you're recharging it daily anyway, battery
life is generally a non-issue.

You can even do some packet radio if you get bored one night stuck out in
Kalamazoo: http://www.eham.net/articles/18197

There are LOTS of calculators for Palms and Windows Mobile PDAs out there,
including plenty of HP emulators. I still prefer a real calculator since I
like having all the physical keys, but the extra power of a PDA definitely
gives a calculator a good run for its money.

Sad. I don't really understand people who do that.

I (accidentally, but stupidly) left my car unlocked at a hotel a couple months
back and, while the dash-mounted radio wasn't swipped, my backpack and a
duffle bag were. After the crooks took what they thought was valuable, they
tossed the 'pack and bag on the street and they were later found by a business
that contacted me and so I got some things back. There was a GPS receiver and
a camera taken that were a bit painful in the wallet to replace, but there
were a couple items of sentimental value that I was very happy to get back.

I'm sure they just immediately attempted to turn the GPS and camera into cash
and then bought whatever they really wanted with the proceeds...

They also took a little single-cell "AA" flashlight, which I can't imagine
would be saleable, so I guess they must have wanted it for themselves!

---Joel

 

[BobW]

I (accidentally, but stupidly) left my car unlocked at a hotel a couple
months back and, while the dash-mounted radio wasn't swipped, my backpack
and a
[snip]


I'm sure they just immediately attempted to turn the GPS and camera into
cash and then bought whatever they really wanted with the proceeds...

[snip]


---Joel

They bought meth. They didn't want to -- they HAD to.

Please try and be a little more understanding.

Bob

 

[krw]

sci.electronics.design, To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-
Site.com says...

BAD! Any time you need to open one of those joints you should replace
those crufty plastic gaskets... they compress correctly ONCE ONLY :-(

A little itty bitty drip can destroy a wooden house.

Tell me about it. I was remodeling the half-bath off the computer
room (was my son's room) a couple of years back. I took out the
commode and vanity and started tipping up the vinyl flooring when I
found that there was nothing under it in the section that was under
the vanity. The subflooring had all rotted out. It wasn't a
compression fitting because the cheap particle board vanity would
have told me something was amiss there. After ripping out the
sheetrock behind the vanity I found a pinhole leak in the hot water
supply. Not enough to drip on the kitchen ceiling below but enough
to keep the subfloor damp.

I always wondered why they used commercial vinyl baseboard and had
silicone caulk sealing the floor to the baseboard. Evidently the
previous owners had tried to build a dike around the bathroom,
perhaps thinking their kid kept spilling water on the floor.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

It also has some rather serious bugs, though -- see the list at
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=735. Bug
#15 -- where the computed result is wrong -- is one I stumbled across while
programming a "real" application, and bug #16 -- that effectively erases
everything in the calculator -- has been encountered by others in real-life
usage scenarios as well.

Thanks and egads. I hadn't seen that list. I haven't run into any of
those bugs but I can see where some might be problem.

I use mine for storing some very simple RF path path analysis and
conversion programs. So far, no surprises. The rest are the usual on
the fly fast calcs. I find myself using the fraction arithmetic
fairly often when doing home repair and carpentry.

I agree it's still a good calculator, but I'm been slowly switching back to a
50g. Definitely somewhat bulkier and spendier, but much, much more powerful.
While it's not 100% bug-free either, AFAIK all the really *bad* bugs (similar
to #15/#16) have been eradicated. (It's a complex enough device that some
generally obscure bugs are pretty much inevitable and doesn't really lower my
opininon of the design, whereas with the 35s those bugs are bad enough that HP
should at the very least be letting people know about them if not immediately
fixing them and offering replacements LIKE THEY DID WITH THE ORIGINAL HP-35
ALL OF 35 YEARS AGO, yet like most companies today HP in no way whatsoever
publically acknowledges any of the bugs in the 35s. Sad...)

That would be nice, but I don't expect HP to admit that they have a
problem. I also don't expect much support on a $50 product.

The original HP35 was also rather buggy:
<http://www.jacques-laporte.org/HP35 bug.htm>
Perhaps HP is trying to establish a tradition?

Misc on the original HP35:
<http://holyjoe.org/hhc2007/Remembering The HP35A.pdf>

 

[krw]

I don't think there's much wrong with the basic design or firmware of
the HP35s. In fact, I like it. However, parts of the production
quality puzzle is slightly lacking.

Apparently there are problems (below), but I've always like HP
calculators. I can't use algebraic ones, so HP is really the only
game in town.

I don't think you can blame that on Carly.

The downfall of HP I certainly do blame on Carly.

I seem to have accumulated a number of "programmers calculators". Most
are antiques, but the HP16c, is the one that I sometimes use:


That works if you don't mind waiting for it to boot, load the program,
complain about updates, etc. I like the calculator because it's
instantly ready.

The laptop is always running, though perhaps asleep. When I'm
working it's always sitting there, even though I'm working on
another computer (they don't allow us load software on their
systems).

What I want is a conglomerated financial and scientific calculator. My
HP12c financial does exponentials, but no trig functions. Close, but
not close enough. I'm still searching for the ultimate hand
calculator.

Then people would just buy one. ;-)

The HP35s has lots of nifty and handy features (exept no financial
functions). For about $50, it's good enough.

Ok, you convinced me. I ordered one last night (to beat the IRS
curfew). ;-)

If you want more features and horsepower, I suggest the HP50g (for 3
times the cost of the HP35s):
<http://www.hp.com/calculators/graphing/50g/index.html>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hp49g+#HP_50g>

I have problems focusing my eyes on the 0.3" LED displays on the HP35
and HP45. I used to use those as my primary calculators or many
years, but when my eyesight started crapping out, I had to switch to
larger LCD displays. Grumble...

I switched to bifocal reading glasses a couple of months ago. I'd
not used glasses at all until February, when I couldn't read my
laptop's screen anymore. :-(

 

[krw]

krw <[email protected]> hath wroth:

If it's really been sitting for 30 years in a drawer, the NiCad
batteries are dead, leaking, rotted, corroded, and disgusting. Don't

Well, the NiCds have only been sitting in the drawer for 20 years
(the last time I could buy batteries from HP). ;-)

try to charge it if the batteries are swollen or covered with white
crud. They're ordinary 850ma-hr NiCad batteries and the battery pack
can easily be rebuilt.
<http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/hp/battery/>

Already did that. I bought two packs and two frames for AAA
batteries.

If there's corrosion damage and white crud on the inside, just clean
it off with water and some mild solvent such as alcohol. Don't get
anything near the keyboard or capillary action will suck in the
liquids. Blow away the excess water, let air dry for a day, and you
have a chance.

No, the battery compartment was clean. The battery contacts look
pretty well worn but still work. I'll likely try your gold leaf
trick on them too.

Also, check the shorting bar inside the charger connector, which has
the bad habit of becoming intermittent. It may not be a bad on-off
switch but a flaky shorting bar. Just clean the round pins around the
shorting bar.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure it's the switch though. It is a PITA to
have the thing suddenly wink out.

HP45 Crystal modification:
<http://www.hpmuseum.org/45crys.htm>
<http://www.decodesystems.com/hp45-stopwatch.html>

Drivel: Ancient photos of an HP65 rebuild.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/hp-calc/index.html>

Thanks again!

 

[Joerg]

sci.electronics.design, [email protected]
says...

XCALC has ENG notation (SCI, FIX, and BIN too, but no BinPt).


Should be several hours, no? My old WorkPad was certainly good for
one work day.

But that's not good enough. You can leave the HP11C on all day, weeks,
months. I never had that one go blank on me because of battery
exhaustion. When the asterisk flashes you can still complete a whole
business trip without a mad dash to the supermarket. And good luck
finding a new battery for the PDA in the boonies when it decides that it
has had enough charge-discharge cycles.

I think one of my Fluke 77s followed it.

:-(

In my travel bag there is a Harborfreight Cheapo. No tears if that gets
"liberated".

 

[Joerg]

Does that include your call phone?

Yes. It runs a whole week on a charge. I bought one of the most frugal
varieties, a bone simple Nokia 2115i. Actually with my usage pattern it
needs recharging roughly every other month.

Just get yourself either a Palm-based (Treo) or Windows Mobile-based phone.
All the power of a PDA and, since you're recharging it daily anyway, battery
life is generally a non-issue.

You can even do some packet radio if you get bored one night stuck out in
Kalamazoo: http://www.eham.net/articles/18197

There are LOTS of calculators for Palms and Windows Mobile PDAs out there,
including plenty of HP emulators. I still prefer a real calculator since I
like having all the physical keys, but the extra power of a PDA definitely
gives a calculator a good run for its money.

I prefer the real thing. HP brought back the HP12C, sadly not the HP11C.

I (accidentally, but stupidly) left my car unlocked at a hotel a couple months
back and, while the dash-mounted radio wasn't swipped, my backpack and a
duffle bag were. After the crooks took what they thought was valuable, they
tossed the 'pack and bag on the street and they were later found by a business
that contacted me and so I got some things back. There was a GPS receiver and
a camera taken that were a bit painful in the wallet to replace, but there
were a couple items of sentimental value that I was very happy to get back.

I'm sure they just immediately attempted to turn the GPS and camera into cash
and then bought whatever they really wanted with the proceeds...

They also took a little single-cell "AA" flashlight, which I can't imagine
would be saleable, so I guess they must have wanted it for themselves!

Yeah, they are probably really handy for the next nightly coup :-(

 

[krw]

sci.electronics.design, [email protected]
says...

But that's not good enough. You can leave the HP11C on all day, weeks,
months. I never had that one go blank on me because of battery
exhaustion. When the asterisk flashes you can still complete a whole
business trip without a mad dash to the supermarket. And good luck
finding a new battery for the PDA in the boonies when it decides that it
has had enough charge-discharge cycles.

<shrug> My cell phone battery doesn't last years (like my 11C did)
either. It simply gets recharged every night. If I had a PDA (not
organized enough to use one) it would simply sit next to it.

:-(

In my travel bag there is a Harborfreight Cheapo. No tears if that gets
"liberated".

I keep them in my tool boxes too. They're really bait (do you
really use these?". The Flukes are kept out of sight.

 

[Rich Grise]

Yes, I'll chekc out xcalc.

I have the copy of xcalc that came with Slackware, and it looks
algebraic to me. It has an '=' button but no "enter".

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joerg]

Is it a sin to just go and put a bunch of epoxy over the entire affair? Sure,
makes it impossible to ever get apart again without a hacksaw, but at least
you've put off the trip to the hardware store...

It's done but sans epoxy

 

[Joerg]

sci.electronics.design, [email protected]
says...

<shrug> My cell phone battery doesn't last years (like my 11C did)
either. It simply gets recharged every night. If I had a PDA (not
organized enough to use one) it would simply sit next to it.

I keep them in my tool boxes too. They're really bait (do you
really use these?". The Flukes are kept out of sight.

Actually I do use them. They are surprisingly accurate for mundane stuff
like DC levels and currents. Just don't open one and see who they are
built (I did). I've convinced a client to buy a bag full as well. Now we
can place a meter anywhere we want because there are so many.

 

[Joerg]

I have the copy of xcalc that came with Slackware, and it looks
algebraic to me. It has an '=' button but no "enter".

Interesting. There would not be a "=" Button in a clean RPN solution.
Maybe the mode can be selected?