[[email protected]]

  Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

  It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

  The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

   All these machines are independent of each other..

  Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
  hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

how sensitve is it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm ?

-Lasse

 

[Jamie]

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

 

[Martin Riddle]

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor
in the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab
and the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed
transformers are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has
never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in
the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one
was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

Does this help, er match up with your distrubance? It's a CME
prediction model.
<http://solarham.net/cmewatch2.htm>

Cheers

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines with
beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers are
far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because we
kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

** FFS - wot a pathetic wanker!!!

Do your own fucking testing.

Eg:

1. A compass needle will respond to static variations in the local magnetic
field.

2. The trace on an analogue scope also responds to the local magnetic
field, be it static or otherwise - budget scopes have CRTs with no mag
shields.



..... Phil

 

[Jamie]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "





** FFS - wot a pathetic wanker!!!

Do your own fucking testing.

Eg:

1. A compass needle will respond to static variations in the local magnetic
field.

2. The trace on an analogue scope also responds to the local magnetic
field, be it static or otherwise - budget scopes have CRTs with no mag
shields.

I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
getting an Agilent.

As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors
and that went very screwy.

Jamie

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "

I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's,

** You are pig ignorant, shithead.

As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
that went very screwy.

** There is no point in giving a bullshitting **** like you any kind of
advice.

FOAD.



..... Phil

 

[Jamie]

Well, we are getting on towards the solar maximum of the current solar
cycle, although it continues to look as if this is going to be a
relatively modest solar-max. There have been a number of significant
solar flares in the past few months, and I've heard anectodal reports
of coronal mass ejections and the resulting geomagnetic storms which
were strong enough to trigger some significant auroral activity.

If you've been keeping records as to when these steering disruptions
have occurred, you could compare them with the geomagnetic-monitor
summaries of the planetary K index. If they seem to line up with
periods when the K index is 5 or above, then it's entirely possible
that your beams are "feeling" geomagnetic variations due to a big
cloud of plasma hitting the ionosphere after a CME.

ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/GEOMAGNETIC_DATA/INDICES/KP_AP/ has the K
index data, down to a 3-hour resolution.

For an interesting read, look up the great Carrington solar flare of
1859, and the resulting geomagnetic storm, and then consider the
probable effect on our modern civilization of another storm of this
magnitude.

Interesting site, looks like a good candidate for an application that
could read and display those numbers graphically with a geological plot.

I book marked it, thanks.

Jamie

 

[Jamie]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "




** You are pig ignorant, shithead.





** There is no point in giving a bullshitting **** like you any kind of
advice.

FOAD.



.... Phil

Which only means you don't know what I am talking about, that's fine,
I wouldn't expect it from a down under.

I understand the branches on the trees down there don't spread out
much and kangaroos are in season.

Jamie

 

[Gib Bogle]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "


** You are pig ignorant, shithead.



** There is no point in giving a bullshitting **** like you any kind of
advice.

Seek psychiatric help.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Gib Bogle" = ASD fucked MORON


** Get cancer and die -

you vile, TROLLING CUNTHEAD

 

[Robert Baer]

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because we
kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

** Copy of previous posting elsewhere **

Err...What about the possibility of an extremely nasty solar flare
storm - one that can literally fry all satellite electronics, and zap
almost all ground-based electronics?
Refs:
1) EE Times Sep 17,2012 pp 20-22 "Girding for the next 'solar max' "
2) Science Fact article in Analog SF&F Nov 2012 pp21-27 "The Day the Sun
Exploded".

Could be serious enough to totally crash all banking in the
world,leaving the "Third World" nations in a superior position.

 

[Robert Baer]

I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
getting an Agilent.

As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
that went very screwy.

Jamie

??350hz?? Rather oddball powerline frequency..

 

[Gib Bogle]

"Gib Bogle" = ASD fucked MORON


** Get cancer and die -

you vile, TROLLING CUNTHEAD

I'm serious. You are bad for yourself and for people around you.

 

[Martin Brown]

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

They are. Or rather the planet has a pretty huge magnet inside it and
the solar wind can buffet it enough to cause trouble for sensitive gear.
More so in the US and Canada than in Europe since magnetic North is on
your side of the planet.

Any geomagnetic record for your neck of the woods would show if it was
from a CME event. This one goes back a few days

http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

Place to look next time it happens.

You might want to make a simple magnetic disturbance monitor to
determine independent of your kit if there is a magnetic storm.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Martin Brown"

You might want to make a simple magnetic disturbance monitor to determine
independent of your kit if there is a magnetic storm.

** Thanks Martin.

Despite the OP's staggering lack of insight, the motive for my two
suggestions re the magnetic compass and simple CRT type scope was the very
same idea.

I also suspect the notion alluded to in the heading is pure hogwash.



..... Phil

 

[Martin Brown]

The old dirty trick was somebody walking in with one of them super-magnets.

Rubbish. Dipole field falls off as 1/r^3.

They are not all that powerful at a distance. At least up to the sizes
used for magnetic clamps. You don't want one in a pocket though. I
became attached to a supermarket checkout till once after someone put
one in one of my pockets. They will nip flesh rather painfully - big
ones destructively. Didn't harm my bank card at all.

Superconducting NMR magnets are in a different league altogether. I know
of one where the outer shell has a dent from snatching the end of a
passing scaffold pole from outside the building.

Magnetic stripe cards erased, CRT monitors changing color...
I do not think there is a natural magnetic effect that big,
unless you are located over an underground railway (tube).

Again you have to be quite close to magnetise the screen and any damage
is fairly local. The one thing I found did zap bank cards was the
initial power on degauss coils of big reference colour monitors in the
old days if you were leaning over or working on them at switch on.

There was a hefty boing noise from the coils responding to the degauss
waveform. That really did for bank cards if you forgot.

Mains fluctuations?

Trams? Large arc welding kit nearby.
Seen that destroy some early CNC kit after the machine went beserk.

 

[Mac Decman]

(snip)

Again you have to be quite close to magnetise the screen and any damage
is fairly local. The one thing I found did zap bank cards was the
initial power on degauss coils of big reference colour monitors in the
old days if you were leaning over or working on them at switch on.

There was a hefty boing noise from the coils responding to the degauss
waveform. That really did for bank cards if you forgot.

Our magnetizer at work will erase those club discount cards that
stores give out if you stand within a few feet of it. I think it
makes a 1.3T pulse 150ms long with a coil ID of 8 inches. Never had
any credit cards get erased though.

Mark DeArman

 

[Robert Macy]

  Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

  It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

  The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

   All these machines are independent of each other..

  Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
  hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

solar flares cause massive disturbances to the earth's magnetic field.

Take a look at the Noise Floor of the Earth's Field:
<http://www.vlf.it/naturalnoisefloor/naturalnoisefloor.htm>
the field noise data cmoes ffrom actual meaurments of sites
From paper, here is its bibliography:

1. E.L. Maxwell and D.L. Stone, "Natural Noise Fields 1cps to 100kc",
IEEE Transactions on Antennas an Propagation, Volume AP-11, Number 3,
pp 339-43, May 1963.
2_ D.A. Chrissan, A.C. Fraser-Smith, Seasonal Variations of Globally
Measured ELF/VLF Radio Noise, Technical Report D177-1, Stanford
University Dept of Electrical Engineering, STAR Lab, December 1996.
3_ R. Barr, D. Llanwyn Jones, C.J. Rodger, "ELF and VLF radio waves",
Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics, Volume 62, Issue
18, pp 1689-1718, November 2000.
4_ Kenneth Davies, Chapter 9, Propagation of Low and Very Low
Frequency Waves, Ionospheric Radio Propagation, New York, N.Y., Dover
Publications, Inc., 1966.
5_ M. Balser and C.A. Wagner, "Observations of Earth-ionosphere cavity
resonances", Nature, Volume 188, pp 638-41, 1960

Magnetic fields are insidious, once created you can't destroy them,
simply redirect them. And, low frequency are the worst, because they
penetrate EVERYTHING! Using mumetal can get expensive, and if not done
properly can easily exacerbate the problem by 'sucking' in magnetic
fields and actually intensifying them locally, so even that type of
shielding must be done carefully.

from those charts:
at 1 Hz the noise spectral density is 'normally' 1pT/rtHz, and it has
a 1/f distribution [I think]
at 0.01Hz it has climbed to over 1nT/rtHz.

If your e-beams are low speed, circa 10-20kV and the run path is long,
it doesn't take much field to deflect the beam over 100nm down at the
target, which in today's geometries is HUGE!

Has anybody produced the calculations for you? It should be part of
your equipment's performance spec - specifying the operating ambient
fields that are allowed. Then it'sup to you to prove your fields are
less than that.

Anyway, the number in those charts is 'average' which means during
solar storms it can easily go above 10X that value - for days! and
even into the 100X for short periods.

Do you have ambient magnetic field instrumentation monitoring the
fields? They are purchaseable items.

 

[Robert Macy]

  I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
getting an Agilent.

  As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors
and that went very screwy.

Jamie

You have to find the frequency values of the disturbance, could be
related to a bad AC mains return cable going intermittent on you.
Those fields can get into the 100's of microTesla ranges and THAT will
deflect even an old monitor's traces.

 

[Robert Macy]

   **  Copy of previous posting elsewhere **

   Err...What about the possibility of an extremely nasty solar flare
storm - one that can literally fry all satellite electronics, and zap
almost all ground-based electronics?
   Refs:
1) EE Times Sep 17,2012 pp 20-22 "Girding for the next 'solar max' "
2) Science Fact article in Analog SF&F Nov 2012 pp21-27 "The Day the Sun
Exploded".

   Could be serious enough to totally crash all banking in the
world,leaving the "Third World" nations in a superior position.

Just thought of something, our satellite reception went wonky the
other night/day? during 'good' weather. The satellite company claims
moisture in the air during a rainstorm reduces the uWave signal and
you get signal breaking up. We got signal breaking up but the weather
here was SUNNY and clear! Anybody else experience that? Maybe we can
correlate the disturbances we saw to what happened to Jamie.