Making PCBs with magazine's paper

[billy2]

This is indeed a very good idea dear MP. I am thinking of making such an etching tank (because it is hard to find a fabricated one here) out of plexiglass. The problem is that I don't know where to find and cut the plexiglass. I have found some good literature in the net. I am attaching one pdf here.

(Mixos, we can start a new thread about home made etching tanks )

Moreover I am thinking of quitting using FeCl3 and move on to ammonium pesulfate. It is clear and you see what you are doing all the time. What do you think ?

Etching_Unit.pdf

 

[MP1]

Not sure about the plexiglass. I made mine with thick pieces of glass and clear RTV. The materials were more readily available to me.
Ammonium Persulfate turns blue as the copper is etched. The more copper etched, the bluer it gets, until you cannot see through it very well, either. I think it is easier to dispose of.
The bad points: After it is mixed with water, it has a shelf life and if you get it too hot with the heater, it is ruined. This and more is probably in the data sheet. I used it for a while but went back to fecl3. I do not remember why. Perhaps you could post a comparison when you try it.

MP

 

[mixos1]

Billy you can freelly start a new topic: Home made etching tanks. We have to discuss many things on this.

 

[gsmaster1]

I used for a while FeCL3. It leaves yellow stains everywhere, I hate that. It also takes a lot of time. requires hot water.

Now I am using Peridrol+something that I cant tell it in english. It is quite fast. It is easier to see through. It does not need any water. When I'm done i store it for one or two days max and it is reuseable. To dispose it I pour it in the drain with plenty of water.

 

[MP1]

gsmaster,
Yes, I also have experience with the yellow stains. I have also had the occasion when the thermostat quit working in a heater and got the etchant too hot. Everything in the etch room that had metal exposed to the air became rusted.
I hope you can find a way to post the ingredient that you use to the group. Please tell us more about it.

Mixos: How does one start a new topic? Is there a button somewhere? I think there is a lot of information to share here.

MP

 

[billy2]

Well, this try was not so successful. I used EPSON PHOTO PAPER which I assumed was good.

The picture is 600 dpi.

As you can see the traces do not have a uniform width and the holes are not properly aligned. My explanation is this :

The paper was not good, and that's all. After ironing I had to wait for more that 3 minutes for the soaked paper to peel off and some toner had remained on the paper, so that the look of some traces was a bit faint.

Another fact is that some glue that the paper is coated with remained on the copper side and was not very easy to remove with hot water.

So :

1) the traces were etched too much in some points.
2) the holes were not clearly etched because they had glue inside, and consequently I could not align the drill well by hand.

I know that the circuit will work, but I didn't like it. >

After that, I assume that everything depends on the paper. I am not talking about the quality of the paper (epson has indeed very good photo paper) but the way it is constructed. My other PCB was made with medium quality paper but the toner traces were fine, it was peeled off in seconds, and the remaining glue was removed instantly with water.

The question remains : which paper to use ? I want to know before I buy the whole pack. ???

Finally I wish I could have the PERFECT press-n-peel sheets

(http://www.techniks.com/) ;D

or the toner-transfer-system

(http://www.montek.com/catalog/item4296.htm)

but they charge A LOT for shipping to europe : press-n-peel is $50 for 20 sheets !!! > > > That's too much for me !

Please tell me your opinions
8)

 

[billy2]

Forgot to say that all the traces were just 16 mil. I had to make a small and compact PCB.

 

[wheedal]

I did a webpage describing something like this a while back. Hope it might help someone.

http://myweb.cableone.net/wheedal/pcb.htm

 

[Kasamiko]

hey,hey!!
Just want to make it sure..
Two guys just did an amazing results
What are the exact paper you used..?? ???
do ya think any glossy paper will do..?? I recieved a lot of glossy catalogs from Analog Devices and Maxim do you think i will do the job??
Is there a plan yet for making an aquarium heater..I can't find it in our place..
Regards.

 

[billy2]

Just use a good glossy paper, clean the copper surface VERY well and then apply a lot of heat and pressure for 5 minutes. Then let it soak in hot water AS LONG as it takes for the paper to come out.

For the etching tank you can check out the TupperTank in the recent projects section.

 

[wheedal]

What are the exact paper you used..?? ???
do ya think any glossy paper will do..?? I recieved a lot of glossy catalogs from Analog Devices and Maxim do you think i will do the job??
Is there a plan yet for making an aquarium heater..I can't find it in our place..
Regards.

Good quality magazine/catalog paper is all I use. I haven't used maxim datasheets before, but I believe it should work. You look for paper that doesn't have a lot of loose recycled paper pulp content. Also, the laminator really lends itself to consistant results --I had difficulty with a hand iron.

 

[billy2]

I haven't tried magazine paper before and I think that I have to give it a try too. Is it necessary for the paper to be white, or it is ok to have printed stuff in it. Should I look for thin or thick glossy paper ? There are a lot of different qualities and thicknesses in magazines.

You are right about glossy papers, lots of useless pulp.What it is needed is less paper and more clay ('glue' in other words) that can easily come out when submerged in hot soapy water.

Actually the whole process is a kind of art, and all arts have secrets. It's up to us to find them out !!!!

 

[wheedal]

No, actually I found that having a little bit of color actually helped release the paper better on the fine traces. I look for a light color background because most of my boards are 2 sided and it's difficult to align the pages when you can't make out the crosshairs against a dark background. Thin works great, haven't tried the magazine covers. What you need is a quality publication -- most catalogs are recycled paper and have a kind of grainy surface. You can tell by rubbing your thumb on a sample under water. The recycled paper will particalize differently than the better quality one. National geographic, TIME, 4 wheeler, geo world, sharper image catalog all work pretty well. Also, its best if the paper hasent been handled before use (no collecting these from dentist waiting rooms!).

 

[Kasamiko]

National Geographic??? hmmm..sound interesting..
How about pages from Computer Gaming World??

 

[billy2]

Great news ! I thought I could never buy this paper but I found this cheap way, only with 22 euros, shipping to Europe :

http://www.pic-board.com/partshop.html?BUTTON=Part+Shop

more details :

http://www.pic-board.com/hfiles/TECHNIK.htm

of course I bought 10 sheets without second thought ! Paid in 10 seconds via paypal

 

[billy2]

This is my first effort to make a PCB using the press-n-peel sheets. The results for me are amazing ! Any comments ???

Will come back with full details, descriptions and tips if the forum demands so

View attachment 35269

 

[MP1]

Billy, that is a very clean looking board from press-n-peel. I tried this method when it first came out and it was not very good. It appears that it is working much better than what it used to.
Nice board!

MP

 

[billy2]

Dear MP, congratulations on your highest ranking in this forum !!!!

As far as press-n-peel is concerned, it is indeed very good but it is also a matter of experience on the ironing time and temperature. And of course the copper must be really clean and scratched on the surface in order for the toner to stick well. Another fact is that it does not always stick well near the pcb edges, so extra care is needed there. And finally there is no visual way to know when to stop ironing.

Sometime in the future when I have more time and money I will try the UV method too. But for hobby projects it is all right for now !

 

[gsmaster1]

Billy where did you get the Press'n'Peel paper? Is there someone in Greece importing it?

 

[neo2]

Hello all,
I have tried this method for all my projects. It works fine and you can forget about the costly screen printing method.

I made the PCB layout using Orcad-Layout and extensively used copper pour (this significantly reduces the time spent on etching). Since i didnt have a printer connected to my system I used Acrobat PDF Writer to print it into a PDF file at 300dpi resolution. Make sure you dont scale the print.

I took a high quality laser printout on a OHP (Transparent Overhead Projector) paper (a butter paper will also work).

Next clean the copper clad using an ink rubber so that it is shining. Place the printout over the clad and iron it for 5-10 minutes. in case youare using a plastic OHP sheet dont forget to place a paper (news paper will do) over it.

Once done, gradually cool the board from the OHP sheet side. Immediate cooling might disturbe the copper-substrate bond.

You will be left with the track. Put this into ferric chloride solution and agitate slowly (it increases the speed of etching).

Tadaaaaaa.you have a good quality PCB