Most popular programable logic controller in the US?

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Hi Folks,

At c.a.e. I didn't get a lot or responses. Those of you who have dealt
with PLC units in industry: What is the most popular brand and type in
the US? Something that is cheap and practical.

Regards, Joerg

Anybody here have experience with Toshiba's line of PLCs?

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Hi Folks,

At c.a.e. I didn't get a lot or responses. Those of you who have dealt
with PLC units in industry: What is the most popular brand and type in
the US? Something that is cheap and practical.

Regards, Joerg

Joerg, sci.engr.control is the place to ask. AB is the safe choice of
big industry. I think it depends a lot on whether you need a micro-PLC
that just has to be cheap, or whether you want something that the
plant people can program and so on. There's one or two orders of
magnitude variation in price, and somewhat less in capability.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Joerg]

Hi Spehro,

Joerg, sci.engr.control is the place to ask. AB is the safe choice of
big industry. I think it depends a lot on whether you need a micro-PLC
that just has to be cheap, or whether you want something that the
plant people can program and so on. There's one or two orders of
magnitude variation in price, and somewhat less in capability.

Thanks. I subscribed to that NG and will search it first to see if a
similar thread was already going on.

Ideally it should be something the folks at the company can program or
at least maintain. Cost consciousness doesn't seem high on the priority
list in this environment. When I replaced a whole bunch of $35 (each)
solid state relays with transistors and the cost dropped to around $1
people just shrugged. In R&D they'd have opened the champagne.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joerg]

Hi YD,

I checked today and that's about the cost of it. Besides import taxes
and stuff I guess there's quite a bit of markup on it too. Hell,
around here they'll nick you USD200 for a beat-up 15 MHz scope.

Which country is that? First I thought South Africa but the exchange
rate doesn't match so now I am puzzled.

Anyway, if stuff is so much more expensive than elsewhere how can you
guys compete in exports?

Regards, Joerg

 

[YD]

Hi YD,

$600 per unit? Ouch. You guys must really pay outrageous taxes because
at that price you can install a leather-seat and marble PC solution. At
least in the US.

Regards, Joerg

I checked today and that's about the cost of it. Besides import taxes
and stuff I guess there's quite a bit of markup on it too. Hell,
around here they'll nick you USD200 for a beat-up 15 MHz scope.

- YD.

 

[YD]

Hi YD,

Which country is that? First I thought South Africa but the exchange
rate doesn't match so now I am puzzled.

Anyway, if stuff is so much more expensive than elsewhere how can you
guys compete in exports?

Brazil, coincidentally I happen to live close to Chaos Master. Not
everything is expensive, mostly imports, if there's a "national
similar" there's a heavy surcharge. Which in this case would be the
ALTUS PLCs of which we happen to have quite a number. We're gradually
replacing them as they're pure crap, ten years behind their time,
taking advantage of the situation by charging triple of what they're
worth.

Exports are doing fine, mostly raw materials, agricultural produce,
and some manufactures. The current exchange rates make them attractive
so the trade balance is in our favor. Overall the economy at the
moment is at an upward turn.

- YD.

 

[Joerg]

Hello YD,

Brazil, coincidentally I happen to live close to Chaos Master. Not
everything is expensive, mostly imports, if there's a "national
similar" there's a heavy surcharge. Which in this case would be the
ALTUS PLCs of which we happen to have quite a number. We're gradually
replacing them as they're pure crap, ten years behind their time,
taking advantage of the situation by charging triple of what they're
worth.

Those are signs of hardcore protectionism, something that has never
worked anywhere in the long run. It causes the inflationary effects you
mentioned and puts a damper on innovation.

Exports are doing fine, mostly raw materials, agricultural produce,
and some manufactures. The current exchange rates make them attractive
so the trade balance is in our favor. Overall the economy at the
moment is at an upward turn.

Yes, it is pretty remarkable how Brazil is doing today. It is important
though to add some high-tech into the mix because raw materials and
agriculture won't let you get beyond a certain level. Unless someone
finds gold or lots of oil, of course.

Many years ago I had an oscillator made in Brazil. It was interesting,
every time someone was in my lab and had to use it they stared at the
front panel. All in Portuguese. So I placed a cheat sheet underneath.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:37:02 GMT, Joerg

[snip]

Many years ago I had an oscillator made in Brazil. It was interesting,
every time someone was in my lab and had to use it they stared at the
front panel. All in Portuguese. So I placed a cheat sheet underneath.

Regards, Joerg

Reminds me of a funny situation in our family... Hispanic son-in-law
can't speak Spanish, because his immigrant parents thought being
American meant speaking English (somewhat different from today, eh?).

But my oldest son, the programmer, speaks Spanish (Mexican-style) and
Portuguese, both learned from the street, Spanish from working laying
sprinkler systems in Tucson while attending U of A, Portuguese then
rapidly learned from multiple business trips to brazil.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Yes, it is pretty remarkable how Brazil is doing today. It is important
though to add some high-tech into the mix because raw materials and
agriculture won't let you get beyond a certain level. Unless someone
finds gold or lots of oil, of course.

Brazil's Embraer is giving Bombardier a run for their money in the
regional jet business. Aerospace is a good tech business.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Joerg]

Hi Spehro,

Brazil's Embraer is giving Bombardier a run for their money in the
regional jet business. Aerospace is a good tech business.

Yes. I have only seen Embraer turboprops close up but these were very
solid planes. If they build jets the same way they will soon be a
dominant figure in the marketplace. But I still like my fancy Bombardier
pen eventhough it was confiscated by my wife.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joerg]

Hi Jim,

Reminds me of a funny situation in our family... Hispanic son-in-law
can't speak Spanish, because his immigrant parents thought being
American meant speaking English (somewhat different from today, eh?).

Sometimes it was less funny than that. A neighbor told me that they were
kind of forced not to speak Spanish at school. So now he can't speak it
much anymore. I am against bilingual education the way our public
schools propose it, not just because the US has chosen English as the
official language many moons ago. But also for the sake of immigrant
kids since that quickly makes them 2nd class in business because they
may not master technical English well enough.

But my oldest son, the programmer, speaks Spanish (Mexican-style) and
Portuguese, both learned from the street, Spanish from working laying
sprinkler systems in Tucson while attending U of A, Portuguese then
rapidly learned from multiple business trips to brazil.

I hope he keeps it up by socializing with native speakers. Otherwise
these skills vanish over the years. This happened to me with Dutch.
Funny thing is, after a few beers it's all back. Well, maybe not anymore
because five years have passed since that trip.

It can also work the other way around. I grew up speaking German. A few
months back we had visitors from there and the second night they asked
me to say our evening prayer in German so they could understand. Errr,
ahhhm, ahem, well.... boy has that become rocky.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Rich Grise]

Hi Jim,
...
I hope he keeps it up by socializing with native speakers. Otherwise
these skills vanish over the years. This happened to me with Dutch.
Funny thing is, after a few beers it's all back. Well, maybe not anymore
because five years have passed since that trip.

It can also work the other way around. I grew up speaking German. A few
months back we had visitors from there and the second night they asked
me to say our evening prayer in German so they could understand. Errr,
ahhhm, ahem, well.... boy has that become rocky.

I read a little story about some bilingual kid, English and French, I
think. He and his mom were in some English-speaking country, and she
wanted to show off the bilingual kid, and so she said, "Say something
to miss <name> in French!" And the kid got all flustered because he
didn't actually know how to translate. The friend kinda schootches
down and asks the kid something, in pure French, and of course, he
answers in French.

I thought it was a kind of interesting story about how bilingualism
might work.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joerg]

Hi Rich,

I read a little story about some bilingual kid, English and French, I
think. He and his mom were in some English-speaking country, and she
wanted to show off the bilingual kid, and so she said, "Say something
to miss <name> in French!" And the kid got all flustered because he
didn't actually know how to translate. The friend kinda schootches
down and asks the kid something, in pure French, and of course, he
answers in French.

I thought it was a kind of interesting story about how bilingualism
might work.

This situation is probably different. Kids become very shy when asked to
say 'something'. When they are asked a question where they know the
answer, regardless of language, then they know how to answer. Usually.
The very shy ones still won't say much.

If you learn a language just by exposure then translating is difficult.
You always 'can' translate if they give you a few seconds but when
watching one of those pros who translate simultaneously while listening
that makes me wonder how they get by without a brain freeze. Switching
back and forth between languages is easy though, it just takes a little
practice. Accents are a different matter. Once you are past the age of
ten they are kind of 'etched in'. A British born friend of ours still
says 'sahmple' instead of 'sample', after decades in the US. And she
still makes great English Toffee.

Regards, Joerg