The above fireplace will not power on. Three relays are on the control board to control the 120VDC but the control VDC seems to be missing and I have not been able to find where it is supplied from. Pictures of the control board front and back are attached.
Muskoka SF310C-36 electric wallmount fireplace will not turn on.
- Thread starter ido
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Martaine2005
- May 12, 2015
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Hi, check F1 on the component side and D1-D4 on the track side.
Martin
Martin
Hi Martin, thanks for the reply. Fuse F1 is continuous when I check it on the board and off the board. So I assume it is not blown. The diodes D1-D4, I assume are a bridge rectifier for AC to DC conversion. All 4 show OL in one direction and 0.594 V in the other when I check with my Multimeter set to diode mode. I have desoldered the 3 relays and tested them off the board. They showed no continuity across the output until I applied a nominal voltage of 9VDC across the coil using a 9 volt battery. They appeared to be clicking as they switched off/on.
Martin, some further information. connector CN1 on the component side of the board connects to push button board on the side of the fireplace. Connector CN1 shows 5VDC and GND when 120VAC is applied across the ACL and ACN pins. CN2 also shows 5VDC and GND and it is connected to the IR receiver mounted inside the fireplace to make the remote control work. CN3 shows 12VDC and GND and is connected to 12 sets of LEDs (6 on each side of the fireplace) for lighting effects controlled by one of the buttons on CN1. CN4 also has 12VDC and is connected to the flame effect motor. I am including a block diagram here.
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73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
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Sir ido . . . . .
Taking your photos and evaluating . . . . here is what my learned eyes are perceiving . . . .
On my markup placed just below, lets initially inspect a questionable area on the first photo, and its being specifically located at center board area, between the two marked in solder blobs/pads with BLUE triangles. NOW, is that being a hoz foil fracture, crossing an arc between those 4 pads ?
My two double RED and BLACK circles are on a zener diodes connection that relate to a voltage reference feedback to the 4 pin 817 family of optical isolater that determines 12 V supply voltage regulation. . . . . along with its derived 5V sub supply.
If that questionable drop down foil appendage is opened, the diode negative lead floats.
Sooooooo . . . . get metering and put into low ohms function and meter between the BLACK double circled pad and any of the . . .at least 5 . . . connections that are common with the top of that R16 47K SM reee-sistor.
Then hold probes in place with 1 hand and grab the large EC2 cap and exert pressure towards both chassis sides . . . . . PARTICULARLY towards the AC HOT LINE markings side, to then see if an opening connection occurs.
If there is being no lateral micro cracking of the LESS than paper thickness foil, we can now continue.
So o o o o o o o it looks like both your main 12 VDC supply and 7805 derived 5 VDC supply are being present.
In "reading the board" I can see that the major RL1 relay at the top is responsible for switching AC power to the units heater element . . .see the bold RED arrow and its contact action.
Additionally the mid position-minor relay RL2 feeds power to a motor by its bold RED arrows contact action.
Finally, the end position 2nd minor relay RL3 feeds power to a fan by its bold RED arrows contact action.
In looking at the 3 principal I.C.'s used, I saw the need for the relays to u Processor handshaking and ascertained that the right top I.C. must be of the ULN2xxx series of 7 darlington transistor sets.
See its details from my bottoms two add ons.
From a look at its pin 8, I see it being grounded . . . . along with a libbbbbbbbbberal lateral big blob of solder, which is then also grounding out its unused inputs.
Pin 9 receives 12VDC power.
Then there are being 3 unused output connections and then pin 13 output feeds down to BLUE square terminal /coil of HEATER relay.
Pin 14 output feeds to VIOLET square terminal /coil of MOTOR relay.
Lastly Pin 15 output feeds to YELLOW square terminal /coil of FAN relay.
End Pin 16, must also be unused.
On the input side I am seeing R??R??R?? and fer dern sure, R22 SM resistors that receive on off commands from output ports of the units 20 pin custom u Processor chip.
My educated guess is that the 4th input port is giving the option of fan only use vice the combination, being used in HEATING mode.
HOWTOMAKEANDDOTEST-EE-TEST-EEANDTHEREBYBEMAKINGYOUEVERSOMOREWORLDLYEDD-U-CATED . . . . .
I have 4 BROWN squares marked at the inputs of the ULN2003 driver, we will now test relay actions via them.
If there is no separate master power switch, we can assume that the little switch mode power supply used in this unit will be running for a full
26 11/17ths hours a day . . . . . . if the unit is being plugged into AC power . . . . . so that your remote control will be 100% time responsive.
If that is CN5 that has a 5 pin connector affixed on one end of its multi unused pins, go to the +5 end pin and to the foils solder side and solder tack on the end of a flying wire . . with such excess . . . that it can reach as far as the relays. A 1 k resistor gets soldered on its wire end.
You now probe with that free resistor end.
With the board AC connected . . . . . but no need of the plug in units . . . . . confirm that +5VDC.
If being present, then you can touch the BROWN square input resistors, with that probe resistor, and expect a respective relays click sound at each one.
I can't POSITIVELY confirm the "R22" series of values but expect the image blur reads 470 or 4700 ohms.
Try your probe resistor at both ends of a "R22" resistor for certainty.
If all of the inputs give audible relay clicks . . . . . or hand feel able mechanical vibrations. . . . . then
ON WITH THE SHOW !
Considering, that the previous testing confirmed and made all relays go click-ee click-ee !
Consider, now, additionally having the plugs also connected, that are being circuit related to the units remote control as well as its manually controlled push buttons panel .
Take voltmeter in hand and clip lead connect negative probe test lead to a ground . . . . easy, if being near where you read the 5 V test supply.
Take positive meter probe and individually test each of the bottom sides of the "R22" resistors.
As you go thru all of the manual push buttons possibilities or via remote, one should produce an activating voltage presence to the port being monitored.
Its telling you that the u Processor is outputting a turn on voltage to that relay function.
FOTIE-GRAF . . . . . .a l l l l l l l l l marked up . . . . . ( On mousie . . . . TWO LEFT click-ee click-ee's . . . . makes much-much 'mo BIG-BIG-ee)
BREAK-BREAK and FEED BACK(sack) time . . . . .
Lastly . . .how about the numbering on the two other I.C.s . . . . . I'm expecting the far left to be interfacing from other u Processor output ports to the transistors on the left and them then powering the resultant LED lighting GLAMORAMA !
73's de Edd . . . . .
Considering how Amazon tends to "Overpack"
To save some BIG money on a coffin, just order and buy a ball point pen from Amazon . . . . and then, you just re-use the box it will come in.
.
Taking your photos and evaluating . . . . here is what my learned eyes are perceiving . . . .
On my markup placed just below, lets initially inspect a questionable area on the first photo, and its being specifically located at center board area, between the two marked in solder blobs/pads with BLUE triangles. NOW, is that being a hoz foil fracture, crossing an arc between those 4 pads ?
My two double RED and BLACK circles are on a zener diodes connection that relate to a voltage reference feedback to the 4 pin 817 family of optical isolater that determines 12 V supply voltage regulation. . . . . along with its derived 5V sub supply.
If that questionable drop down foil appendage is opened, the diode negative lead floats.
Sooooooo . . . . get metering and put into low ohms function and meter between the BLACK double circled pad and any of the . . .at least 5 . . . connections that are common with the top of that R16 47K SM reee-sistor.
Then hold probes in place with 1 hand and grab the large EC2 cap and exert pressure towards both chassis sides . . . . . PARTICULARLY towards the AC HOT LINE markings side, to then see if an opening connection occurs.
If there is being no lateral micro cracking of the LESS than paper thickness foil, we can now continue.
So o o o o o o o it looks like both your main 12 VDC supply and 7805 derived 5 VDC supply are being present.
In "reading the board" I can see that the major RL1 relay at the top is responsible for switching AC power to the units heater element . . .see the bold RED arrow and its contact action.
Additionally the mid position-minor relay RL2 feeds power to a motor by its bold RED arrows contact action.
Finally, the end position 2nd minor relay RL3 feeds power to a fan by its bold RED arrows contact action.
In looking at the 3 principal I.C.'s used, I saw the need for the relays to u Processor handshaking and ascertained that the right top I.C. must be of the ULN2xxx series of 7 darlington transistor sets.
See its details from my bottoms two add ons.
From a look at its pin 8, I see it being grounded . . . . along with a libbbbbbbbbberal lateral big blob of solder, which is then also grounding out its unused inputs.
Pin 9 receives 12VDC power.
Then there are being 3 unused output connections and then pin 13 output feeds down to BLUE square terminal /coil of HEATER relay.
Pin 14 output feeds to VIOLET square terminal /coil of MOTOR relay.
Lastly Pin 15 output feeds to YELLOW square terminal /coil of FAN relay.
End Pin 16, must also be unused.
On the input side I am seeing R??R??R?? and fer dern sure, R22 SM resistors that receive on off commands from output ports of the units 20 pin custom u Processor chip.
My educated guess is that the 4th input port is giving the option of fan only use vice the combination, being used in HEATING mode.
HOWTOMAKEANDDOTEST-EE-TEST-EEANDTHEREBYBEMAKINGYOUEVERSOMOREWORLDLYEDD-U-CATED . . . . .
I have 4 BROWN squares marked at the inputs of the ULN2003 driver, we will now test relay actions via them.
If there is no separate master power switch, we can assume that the little switch mode power supply used in this unit will be running for a full
26 11/17ths hours a day . . . . . . if the unit is being plugged into AC power . . . . . so that your remote control will be 100% time responsive.
If that is CN5 that has a 5 pin connector affixed on one end of its multi unused pins, go to the +5 end pin and to the foils solder side and solder tack on the end of a flying wire . . with such excess . . . that it can reach as far as the relays. A 1 k resistor gets soldered on its wire end.
You now probe with that free resistor end.
With the board AC connected . . . . . but no need of the plug in units . . . . . confirm that +5VDC.
If being present, then you can touch the BROWN square input resistors, with that probe resistor, and expect a respective relays click sound at each one.
I can't POSITIVELY confirm the "R22" series of values but expect the image blur reads 470 or 4700 ohms.
Try your probe resistor at both ends of a "R22" resistor for certainty.
If all of the inputs give audible relay clicks . . . . . or hand feel able mechanical vibrations. . . . . then
ON WITH THE SHOW !
Considering, that the previous testing confirmed and made all relays go click-ee click-ee !
Consider, now, additionally having the plugs also connected, that are being circuit related to the units remote control as well as its manually controlled push buttons panel .
Take voltmeter in hand and clip lead connect negative probe test lead to a ground . . . . easy, if being near where you read the 5 V test supply.
Take positive meter probe and individually test each of the bottom sides of the "R22" resistors.
As you go thru all of the manual push buttons possibilities or via remote, one should produce an activating voltage presence to the port being monitored.
Its telling you that the u Processor is outputting a turn on voltage to that relay function.
FOTIE-GRAF . . . . . .a l l l l l l l l l marked up . . . . . ( On mousie . . . . TWO LEFT click-ee click-ee's . . . . makes much-much 'mo BIG-BIG-ee)
BREAK-BREAK and FEED BACK(sack) time . . . . .
Lastly . . .how about the numbering on the two other I.C.s . . . . . I'm expecting the far left to be interfacing from other u Processor output ports to the transistors on the left and them then powering the resultant LED lighting GLAMORAMA !
73's de Edd . . . . .
Considering how Amazon tends to "Overpack"
To save some BIG money on a coffin, just order and buy a ball point pen from Amazon . . . . and then, you just re-use the box it will come in.
.
Last edited:
73's de Edd: That was a very impressive analysis of the control board. Also very good eyes to notice what could have been a crack in the copper side of the board. That was my bad as it actually was a fabric strand off a sweater. So crisis averted there.
Your analysis of the 3 relays was confirmation of my thinking as well. As I mentioned in another post of this thread I had desoldered all three relays and tested them out of circuit using a 9VDC battery across the coils. Since the maximum allowable voltage is rated at 130% of the nominal voltage which for these relays is 12 VDC the 9VDC battery was well within specs of the relays. Each relay had a definite click when I previously tested them out of circuit. However, following your post and checking for an audible click or checking for tactile vibration when applying 5VDC through a probe resistor to the top (Brown marked on your photo) of R19, R20, R21, and R22 (all 4 resistors are 4700 ohms) produced NO detectable switching of the relays as was felt previously. I verified the 5 VDC both at the connection point on the copper side of the board and the test end of the 1K probe resistor soldered to the test wire as you suggested. Could this have been the result of having a Master Power Switch located on the side of the fireplace casing and connected to the control board through the CN1 board mounted molex connector? Left most button in diagram below. When this button is pushed to turn on the fireplace the speaker on the control board emits a single 'beep'. I did not complete the "On With The Show" section of your post, yet.
In regard to the 3 ICs which have their identifications removed from their tops. I concur with your identification for the upper right IC. I believe it to be a ULN2003A high voltage, high current Darlington Array. The upper left IC I believe is a TM1809 which is a 9 channel LED Driver. The lower of the three chips has all identification marks removed with what looks like a dremmel tool grinder, but I suspect you are correct in identifying it as a microprocessor controller.
Your analysis of the 3 relays was confirmation of my thinking as well. As I mentioned in another post of this thread I had desoldered all three relays and tested them out of circuit using a 9VDC battery across the coils. Since the maximum allowable voltage is rated at 130% of the nominal voltage which for these relays is 12 VDC the 9VDC battery was well within specs of the relays. Each relay had a definite click when I previously tested them out of circuit. However, following your post and checking for an audible click or checking for tactile vibration when applying 5VDC through a probe resistor to the top (Brown marked on your photo) of R19, R20, R21, and R22 (all 4 resistors are 4700 ohms) produced NO detectable switching of the relays as was felt previously. I verified the 5 VDC both at the connection point on the copper side of the board and the test end of the 1K probe resistor soldered to the test wire as you suggested. Could this have been the result of having a Master Power Switch located on the side of the fireplace casing and connected to the control board through the CN1 board mounted molex connector? Left most button in diagram below. When this button is pushed to turn on the fireplace the speaker on the control board emits a single 'beep'. I did not complete the "On With The Show" section of your post, yet.
In regard to the 3 ICs which have their identifications removed from their tops. I concur with your identification for the upper right IC. I believe it to be a ULN2003A high voltage, high current Darlington Array. The upper left IC I believe is a TM1809 which is a 9 channel LED Driver. The lower of the three chips has all identification marks removed with what looks like a dremmel tool grinder, but I suspect you are correct in identifying it as a microprocessor controller.
Attachments
73's de Edd: Further clarification of the traces around the ULN2003A and the four resistors R19, R20, R21, and R22 which are somewhat unclear in my first post.
The right most resistor R22 is continuous with pin 4 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 7 of the unknown microprocessor IC6
The resistor second from the right R21 is continuous with pin 3 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 6 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
The resistor third from the right R20 is continuous with pin 2 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 5 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
The left most resistor R19 is continuous with pin 1 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace back to pin 2 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
The right most resistor R22 is continuous with pin 4 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 7 of the unknown microprocessor IC6
The resistor second from the right R21 is continuous with pin 3 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 6 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
The resistor third from the right R20 is continuous with pin 2 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace under the Darlington Array to pin 5 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
The left most resistor R19 is continuous with pin 1 of the ULN2003A IC4 and follows the trace back to pin 2 of the unknown microprocessor IC6.
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73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
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- Aug 21, 2015
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[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Say hey . . . .Sir[/COLOR] ido
However, following your post and checking for an audible click or checking for tactile vibration when applying 5VDC through a probe resistor to the top (Brown marked on your photo) of R19, R20, R21, and R22 (all 4 resistors are 4700 ohms) produced NO detectable switching of the relays as was felt previously. I verified the 5 VDC both at the connection point on the copper side of the board and the test end of the 1K probe resistor soldered to the test wire as you suggested.
The simple test of those relays . . . while staying . . . .on board is to note that each of their coils receives 12VDC at each of the relays RED HEX
mark ups, so all that is needed for their activation is a return to ground of the YELLOW-VIOLET or BLUE square connection.
Look within the right breakout of a single ULN2003 connection, and that is being the OUT of a unit which has the final transistor fully conducting from C-E to accomplish that "grounding" .
Your results show that NOT happening on your placing a logic high on its input.
Could this have been the result of having a Master Power Switch located on the side of the fireplace casing and connected to the control board through the CN1 board mounted molex connector?
I would see that any external Master Power Switch would shut down all power to the board.
Good show . . . . on the fill in on the U processor interconnects to the ULN2003 darlington drivers for the 3 relays and their end products . . .of which I perceive, is with the HEAVIEST relay handling the HEFTY HEATER ELEMENT, with one minor relay handling AC power to its associated air over blower FAN motor and finally the third minor relay feeding what I suspect is just being a minor visual effects motor.
( Are any rotating log or flickering flame effects being assimilated ? )
The upper left IC I believe is using a TM1809 which is a 9 channel LED Driver.
O.K. . . . . . so I look at that board and its accursed GREEN-ON-GREEN foil on board !@#[imath]% blankety-blank!@#[/imath]% ( extend the cursing 432 and 13 'lebentents extra typographical characters)
No way that I can make out an end cut out slot for pin #1 nor certainty that I am seeing a dimple.
BUT . . . if I test rotate the all telling pins # 8-9-10, they will fall right into place on the way I have it shown.
That has their output voltages going thru 1K resistors to bases of power driving transistors, conducting C to E to power the LED's.
Also being shown, is just the very start of the pins 11-12-13 drive path.
I couldn't even start on the 4-5-6 routing in that overpowering GREEN jungle.
Now I would ask you to check out my, minimally visually invasive, use of 3 YELLOW dots for feedback from you.
YELLOW DOTS 1 and 2
On the 6 connections around the 0 ohm foil jumper SM "resistor" are these being solder splashes or poor workmanship issues, or is your sweater at it again ?
YELLOW DOT 3
Are they connecting 1809's SET #2 pin to #1 pin, or is that a solder splash tail . . . . . or your sweater strand all across the 1-7 pins ?
Now back to that 20 pin U processor chip . . . . its putting out dual types of information.
For the ULN2003's response, its putting out either a logic HIGH of = or >2.5 DC constant to run. With no logic high coming from a U port . . . relay turns off.
Its other task is its sending a serial data stream to the 1809, which gets internally decoded and then creates the drive conditions and sequences of the connected LEDs.
The DataIN is a bit far from the U processors pins but I'm suspecting DataIN and DataOUT to be loop in and out functions . . . same connections.
Expecting gobs and gobs of these inter looped I.C.'s to be placed side by side on MUCH more involved displays.
If neither the logic high appears at the output of the U processor to the ULN2003 after corresponding button pushes nor there is any light show from the presence of serial activation of the 1809 . . . is there 5 V supply to the U processor ?
Thaaaaaaaaassit . . . . . . . . . . . . I'se gotta done gone and sits right down and decompose myselfs now. . . .
ADDITIONAL . . . . . . . ILLUSTRATION OF the LED ASPECTS of the TM1809's UTILIZATION . . . . .
73's de Edd . . . . .
I am neither a magician nor a super uber mathematician but... just try this bit of computational wizardry . . .
Take your age.
Subtract 2
Got that ?
Then you add 2
Got that ?
then
VOILA . . . .
That's your age. . . . . . . . AIN'T THAT SUMPTHIN' !
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