Not Understanding Arduino useage versus traditional Electronics useage in Devices.

[crutschow]

Has it come down to where electronics (per se') will no longer be required in the future or near future manufacturing
except for hobbyists, nostalgia tinkerers and techs who maintain old dinosaur electronics devices?

Not really.
You still need to understand "electronics" if you want to interface the computer to the part of the outside world which is mostly analog.
Note that binary "digital" signals outside the computer are basically two-level analog signals and you must understand the analog characteristics of the signals (e.g. voltage, current, power, radiation, rise/fall time, ringing, reflections, etc.) to properly design with them.

For example, suppose you want to drive a stepper motor in a robot which is controlled by those digital signals.
If you don't understand the analog requirements of the power signal driving the motor as defined by those digital signals, you wouldn't be able to properly interface to the motor.
You could take every available computer/programming class, and be a world-class computer architect designer/programmer, but you would still be clueless as to how to do that.
Computer/digital Boolean logic is absolutely no help for that task.
The internet signal information is digital of course, but you need to be a top notch analog designer to design the electronic infrastructure that carries that signal from the digital servers to your computer.
The signal itself is generally some form of analog waveform complexly modulated (such as QAM) with the digital information.

The brain is a great computer, but without the body to analog interface it to the world, it's not of much use.

 

[danadak]

Great explanation.

So where does that leave the need for understanding discreet electronics circuits and components as it has been?
Has it come down to where electronics (per se') will no longer be required in the future or near future manufacturing
except for hobbyists, nostalgia tinkerers and techs who maintain old dinosaur electronics devices?

AI trends will attack need for every "designer" to have depth of knowledge, already being used
by all engineering at Nvidea according to CEO mandates. Discrete circuits however continue to have
a lifetime, especially in RF, high power area. But AI design factories of the future, with design thru
manufacture will test that as well. In the AI age humans are a burden and not green.......

 

[John R Retired]

AI trends will attack need for every "designer" to have depth of knowledge, already being used
by all engineering at Nvidea according to CEO mandates. Discrete circuits however continue to have
a lifetime, especially in RF, high power area. But AI design factories of the future, with design thru
manufacture will test that as well. In the AI age humans are a burden and not green.......

In the new AI age you describe, what do you think the required Certificate Tech or Associate in Science / Bachelors "ELECTRONICS" (for lack of a better word), courses will consist of? Mainly micro controller programming with discreet electronics theory courses falling by the wayside?
I'm asking this as I know, discreet electronics circuit boards are tossed in the junk pile and no attempt to fix them being the common scenario. Tons of "electronics waste" pollution has been a concern for a while. Actually I saw large PC boards (2 foot square) loaded with chips and components sold for junk and gold plating 35 years ago at a major business machine manf. facility I worked at then.
I worked mainly with the mechanical dept. however, but ocassionally interfaced with the electronics manf. departments.

Do you suppose the AI age will be 3 years, 5 years 10 years or "whatever" in the future, OR are we approaching it at lightening speed right now?
Of course this would take into account your POV on RF and high power area.
Maybe all the left over discreet components will end up on Amazon or Banggood for hobbyists.

 

[John R Retired]

Not really.
You still need to understand "electronics" if you want to interface the computer to the part of the outside world which is mostly analog.
Note that binary "digital" signals outside the computer are basically two-level analog signals and you must understand the analog characteristics of the signals (e.g. voltage, current, power, radiation, rise/fall time, ringing, reflections, etc.) to properly design with them.

For example, suppose you want to drive a stepper motor in a robot which is controlled by those digital signals.
If you don't understand the analog requirements of the power signal driving the motor as defined by those digital signals, you wouldn't be able to properly interface to the motor.
You could take every available computer/programming class, and be a world-class computer architect designer/programmer, but you would still be clueless as to how to do that.
Computer/digital Boolean logic is absolutely no help for that task.
The internet signal information is digital of course, but you need to be a top notch analog designer to design the electronic infrastructure that carries that signal from the digital servers to your computer.
The signal itself is generally some form of analog waveform complexly modulated (such as QAM) with the digital information.

The brain is a great computer, but without the body to analog interface it to the world, it's not of much use.

You seem to be talking about "Consumer" devices, computers and-or electronics which are always way behind the cutting edge of
a technology. More critical tech used in critical devices would follow the state of the art level. Power requirements to drive the digital
modules could be narrowed down to just a few components that a robot could deal with. Even at the consumer level you can see
how it all can be reduced to a minimum if you open up a modern TV and look inside seeing just a few items operating the TV.
A-D or D-A converters probably will be reduced to simpler physical modules as that seems to be the trend.

 

[crutschow]

You seem to be talking about "Consumer" devices, computers and-or electronics which are always way behind the cutting edge of
a technology.

It's not just "Consumer" devices, it's any devices being built.
Advances in technology won't significantly change what I said.
If you don't understand at least the basics of analog electronics, the computer is of limited use.

 

[John R Retired]

It's not just "Consumer" devices, it's any devices being built.
Advances in technology won't significantly change what I said.
If you don't understand at least the basics of analog electronics, the computer is of limited use.

Howabout the up and coming Quantum computers that transcend Binary states and Boolean algebra and instead deal with multiple
conditions of logic variables?

 

[crutschow]

Howabout the up and coming Quantum computers that transcend Binary states and Boolean algebra and instead deal with multiple
conditions of logic variables?

It still just a computer, albeit a theoretically more powerful one.

 

[danadak]

From ChatGPT -

The unique differences between a normal (classical) computer and a quantum computer come down to how information is represented and processed. Here's a breakdown:

---

1. Basic Unit of Information​

• Classical computer: Uses bits, which are either 0 or 1.
• Quantum computer: Uses qubits (quantum bits), which can be in a superposition of 0 and 1 at the same time.

---

2. Information Processing​

• Classical: Processes bits one at a time or in parallel across cores. Each operation manipulates a specific state.
• Quantum: Can process many possible inputs at once due to superposition, and can interfere with probabilities to guide the outcome.

---

3. Key Principles in Use​

• Classical: Based on classical physics and binary logic.
• Quantum:
  • Superposition: Qubits can exist in multiple states simultaneously.
  • Entanglement: Qubits can be linked, so the state of one instantly influences the state of another.
  • Interference: Used to amplify correct answers and cancel wrong ones.

---

4. Speed and Capability​

• Classical: Good for general-purpose tasks (browsing, gaming, spreadsheets, etc.), often faster for many routine operations.
• Quantum: Not faster in general, but exponentially faster for specific problems like:
  • Factoring large numbers (Shor’s algorithm)
  • Searching unsorted data (Grover’s algorithm)
  • Simulating quantum systems (chemistry, materials)

---

5. Security Implications​

• Classical: Current encryption (like RSA) relies on difficulty of factoring large numbers.
• Quantum: Could break RSA using quantum algorithms, which is why post-quantum cryptography is being developed.

---

️ 6. Hardware & Stability​

• Classical: Uses stable components (transistors); error correction is routine and simple.
• Quantum:
  • Qubits are highly unstable and prone to errors (from noise, decoherence).
  • Needs extremely low temperatures, isolation, and advanced error correction.

---

7. Programming & Algorithms​

• Classical: Uses conventional programming languages (Python, C, Java, etc.)
• Quantum: Requires quantum algorithms and languages like Qiskit, Cirq, or Quipper.

---

Summary Table:​

Feature	Classical Computer	Quantum Computer
Unit of Info	Bit (0 or 1)	Qubit (superposition of 0 & 1)
Logic	Deterministic	Probabilistic/Interfering
Key Phenomena	Transistors, logic gates	Superposition, entanglement
Parallelism	Limited, hardware-based	Massive, quantum parallelism
Best At	General-purpose tasks	Specialized computations
Stability	Very high	Very fragile (needs cooling)

---

Let me know if you'd like real-world examples or analogies to make it more concrete.

 

[John R Retired]

From ChatGPT -

The unique differences between a normal (classical) computer and a quantum computer come down to how information is represented and processed. Here's a breakdown:

---

1. Basic Unit of Information​

• Classical computer: Uses bits, which are either 0 or 1.
• Quantum computer: Uses qubits (quantum bits), which can be in a superposition of 0 and 1 at the same time.

---

2. Information Processing​

• Classical: Processes bits one at a time or in parallel across cores. Each operation manipulates a specific state.
• Quantum: Can process many possible inputs at once due to superposition, and can interfere with probabilities to guide the outcome.

---

3. Key Principles in Use​

• Classical: Based on classical physics and binary logic.
• Quantum:
  • Superposition: Qubits can exist in multiple states simultaneously.
  • Entanglement: Qubits can be linked, so the state of one instantly influences the state of another.
  • Interference: Used to amplify correct answers and cancel wrong ones.

---

4. Speed and Capability​

• Classical: Good for general-purpose tasks (browsing, gaming, spreadsheets, etc.), often faster for many routine operations.
• Quantum: Not faster in general, but exponentially fasterfor specific problems like:
  • Factoring large numbers (Shor’s algorithm)
  • Searching unsorted data (Grover’s algorithm)
  • Simulating quantum systems (chemistry, materials)

---

5. Security Implications​

• Classical: Current encryption (like RSA) relies on difficulty of factoring large numbers.
• Quantum: Could break RSA using quantum algorithms, which is why post-quantum cryptography is being developed.

---

️ 6. Hardware & Stability​

• Classical: Uses stable components (transistors); error correction is routine and simple.
• Quantum:
  • Qubits are highly unstable and prone to errors (from noise, decoherence).
  • Needs extremely low temperatures, isolation, and advanced error correction.

---

7. Programming & Algorithms​

• Classical: Uses conventional programming languages (Python, C, Java, etc.)
• Quantum: Requires quantum algorithms and languages like Qiskit, Cirq, or Quipper.

---

Summary Table:​

Feature	Classical Computer	Quantum Computer
Unit of Info	Bit (0 or 1)	Qubit (superposition of 0 & 1)
Logic	Deterministic	Probabilistic/Interfering
Key Phenomena	Transistors, logic gates	Superposition, entanglement
Parallelism	Limited, hardware-based	Massive, quantum parallelism
Best At	General-purpose tasks	Specialized computations
Stability	Very high	Very fragile (needs cooling)

---

Let me know if you'd like real-world examples or analogies to make it more concrete.

"Let me know if you'd like real-world examples or analogies to make it more concrete."

Please---Go ahead.

Also, what type of hardware makes a Quantum computer?

Due to the low temperature requirements, it looks like it would'nt be practical for consumer use, but only for elite, expernsive & controlled environments like government, military or big corporate labs.

 

[danadak]

Go to ChatGPT and re-ask the question so you can get to the link "Let me know...."

unique differences between a normal (classical) computer and a quantum computer

 

[ahsrabrifat]

Great explanation.

So where does that leave the need for understanding discreet electronics circuits and components as it has been?
Has it come down to where electronics (per se') will no longer be required in the future or near future manufacturing
except for hobbyists, nostalgia tinkerers and techs who maintain old dinosaur electronics devices?

Arduino is not always the best option if you think about price and space. Moreover, Arduino alone cannot do any work. Arduino needs to be integrated with relays, transistors, diodes, etc. Without knowing basic electronics, it's not possible to understand how these components work. We have many Arduino-compatible modules to make our work easier. We don't need to bother with all the connections. Just three or four jumper wires and connections are ready. What about the people who make those modules and sell them? They need to know how each and every component works, right? Think about the simple relay modules. It is not possible to make one and make it work successfully unless somebody knows about all the pins of a relay, the working principle of diodes, transistors and optocouplers. Such a small board needs this much knowledge. Think about how much it takes to do bigger projects. So, the demand for basic electronics will never go away. It will walk hand in hand with Arduino.

 

[crutschow]

Quantum computers are, at present, very exotic devices that require complex laboratory equipment to function, and are intended to solve specific types of problems that standard digital computers cannot readily do in a reasonable period of time.

It's unlikely the will ever be used in a home environment, at least not in the foreseeable future.

 

[crutschow]

It's true that the expertise to repair electronic circuits down to the component level is likely not much needed much anymore, but the knowledge to design and use electronic circuits (both analog and digital) will always be needed.

 

[John R Retired]

It's true that the expertise to repair electronic circuits down to the component level is likely not much needed much anymore, but the knowledge to design and use electronic circuits (both analog and digital) will always be needed.

There are only 24 hours in a day.

If a person sleeps 8 hours and then works at an electronics job for 8 hours, plus 2 hours (more or less) for commute
that leaves 6 hours each day free time. Home chores, maintenance & duties & meals (or whatever) maybe
take 2 hours. 4 hours left.
Now what? Spend the few hours remaining working on tedious electronics hobby projects for fun? Weekends, 32 open hours
(minus 16 hours for sleep). What to do with those hours? Family get togethers, going out for entertainment, golf, hiking etc.?
For people working a Non-related electronics job (exa. sales, office, teacher etc.) does that person want to spend their free time
working on hobby electronics projects?

So Time is a BIG factor in all this.

Unless you are independently wealthy, or kids living with their parents, most people need to spend time making money to survive nowadays.

If electronics Repair is a dead end, and electronics is mainly "black box" devices, microcontrollers, then what is the point of tinkering
with electronics?
It's not good for your health, as you are sitting a lot which contributes to things like obeisity and diabetes and other health issues.

So the bottom line, other than making your Primary real living at electronics at a Company since "Repair buxiness" is dead
what is the point of tinkering with electronics in your spare time? I suppose if that is how you want to spend your free time
then fine...knock yourself out.

"TIME" spent is the actual primary Factor. Unless working at electronics in your spare Time is getting you somewhere like
improving your skills to make more income at your primary electronics day job, or is what you want to do for hobby enjoyment
in your free time, then what's the point?

Like I said if you are independently wealthy, or financially set, then that is a different scenario. How many people are in that situation?
I don't know how else to explain that it is about "Time" 24 hours a day is all we have. That being said, I like electronics and scientific
concepts, but spending many hours sitting, soldering, figuring out circuit analysis etc all for no discernable or practical reason
is difficult to justify as how to spend "Time". If I am working on a problem with my automobile or replacing a damaged facia board
on my house, or putting in new tile or a new shower head or wiring a new circuit into my house circuit breaker box etc., I am accomplishing something of practical value for the Time I am utilizing.

If it is electronics or programming an Arduino just for "Hobby Enjoyment", then I can't see how it adds to anything, unless it would
add to some vocational or avocational improvement in my skills and knowedge to make a living.

 

[crutschow]

If you not interested in electronics as a hobby, and want to make money with electronics repair, then one of the few things I can think of is working for the "Geek Squad" at Best Buy.
Do you have any other interests?

 

[John R Retired]

If you not interested in electronics as a hobby, and want to make money with electronics repair, then one of the few things I can think of is working for the "Geek Squad" at Best Buy.
Do you have any other interests?

Yeah I've talked to the guys at Geek Squad, even had my computer looked at there.

They just run prescribed programmed scripted tests created by Best Buy engineering contractors. Another form of "Black Box"
"Pass-Fail" testing and board swap, throw the old board in the junk pile type technician. They don't make much money either.
Minimum wage in Calif. for less than high school diploma burger flipper is now $20 an hour. I don't think the Geek Squad makes
as much as those burger flippers & French Friers.

I'm just trying to justify using my "Time" (only 24 hrs in a day-remember) to experiment and tinker with electronics in my spare time.
Whether it's discreet components or programming some micro controller it has to be improving my life somehow. Yes, doing it as
a hobby does not appeal to me. It's all quite a conundrum. trying to find a niche so I can settle in and begin and I can't afford to
waste time at my age. Just tinkering and experimenting for the joy and personal satisfaction is a luxury that I can't afford.
I really don't see how others do it unless they are wealthy or are kids living home with their parents.

Yes I have other interests, but I look at them with this same mentality. If they are not advancing me in some substantial way I am not motivated.
Life is too short to fool around, especially when you are old and retired.

 

[Delta Prime]

I really don't see how others do it unless they are wealthy or are kids living home with their parents.

That’s a load of crap!
Three months ago, my employer was looking for an electronic technician. Me; being a senior 30-year-old electronic research laboratory technician,was responsible for inviting potential employees for an interview.
So I streamlined the description of the advertisement for potential employees.
Minimum technical knowledge, (made it simple).
As an Electronics Technician, you will play a key role in assembling, testing, and troubleshooting hardware to ensure seamless operation with a variety of sensors, hardware interfaces, and AI-driven analytics, all meeting or exceeding military-grade standards.
Salary is $44.75 an hour to start.
Strong attention to detail and the ability to follow technical instructions in a fast-paced environment.
You will work closely with electrical engineers, software engineers, and autonomy experts to support the development and integration of preparatory technology.
Proficiency in using diagnostic tools such as multimeters, oscilloscopes, and signal generators.
Follow technical schematics, wiring diagrams, and assembly instructions to ensure accurate and high-quality work.
Submit your résumé today no degree is required.

 

[John R Retired]

That’s a load of crap!
Three months ago, my employer was looking for an electronic technician. Me; being a senior 30-year-old electronic research laboratory technician,was responsible for inviting potential employees for an interview.
So I streamlined the description of the advertisement for potential employees.
Minimum technical knowledge, (made it simple).
As an Electronics Technician, you will play a key role in assembling, testing, and troubleshooting hardware to ensure seamless operation with a variety of sensors, hardware interfaces, and AI-driven analytics, all meeting or exceeding military-grade standards.
Salary is $44.75 an hour to start.
Strong attention to detail and the ability to follow technical instructions in a fast-paced environment.
You will work closely with electrical engineers, software engineers, and autonomy experts to support the development and integration of preparatory technology.
Proficiency in using diagnostic tools such as multimeters, oscilloscopes, and signal generators.
Follow technical schematics, wiring diagrams, and assembly instructions to ensure accurate and high-quality work.
Submit your résumé today no degree is required.

That's having electronics as your main career and means of support and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about working at electronics at home or in the garage in off time, not as a 9-5 job to support yourself and a family.

Also I doubt Geek Squad is making $45 an hour.