OSC and unity gain buffer

E

eeaj2002

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi all,

I need help with my circuit please. I have a one MHz osc fed into the
positive input of the opamp LMC6484 and the negative terminal is
connected to the output (unity gain buffer). At the positive input
terminal I have the 1MHz. from the oscillator and I should see one MHz
at the output as well but I see distorted sine wave signal. If the
gain bandwidth of the opamp is 1.5MHz. should not I see one MHz. at
the output of the opamp as well. I did run the oscillator at 3.0
Volts and the opamp at 15V.

Thanks for you help in advance,

John.
 
E

eeaj2002

Jan 1, 1970
0
This sounds a lot like a homework problem, but I'll help anyway...

-- The slew rate of your LMC6484 there is specified at 1.4V/us
-- What slew rate is required to run a 1MHz sine wave at 3V?  (Hint: It's
rather more than 1.4V/us...  a 1V sine wave at 1Hz has a maximum slope of 2*pi
volts/second...)

Hi Joel,

Thank you for your hint but this is not a homework problem. I was
just trying to learn about opamp myself.
Are you saying that its slew rate must be greater than 1.4V/us?

Thanks,
John.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"eeaj2002"
"Joel Koltner"
-- The slew rate of your LMC6484 there is specified at 1.4V/us
-- What slew rate is required to run a 1MHz sine wave at 3V? (Hint: It's
rather more than 1.4V/us... a 1V sine wave at 1Hz has a maximum slope of
2*pi
volts/second...)

Hi Joel,

Thank you for your hint but this is not a homework problem. I was
just trying to learn about opamp myself.
Are you saying that its slew rate must be greater than 1.4V/us?


** He did.

The maximum slew rate of a sine wave occurs around the zero crossings & is
given by the formula:

SR = 2 x pi x Vpk x F

when F is in MHz, then SR is in V / uS.

Your voltage follower must have a SR equal to or greater than the signal it
is passing.

If you simply reduce the level or frequency of the sine wave sufficiently,
the output wave will become sine.



...... Phil
 
E

eeaj2002

Jan 1, 1970
0
And here I was about to give you $100k to build me a class A, zero-feedback,
tube-based audio amplifier because it will OBVIOUSLY sound so much better than
a traditional design with your approach. :)

Thank you all for your help. I need further help please.
I wrote a simple program that generate a monochrome NTSC signal. I
connected this signal to one of the eye glasses which take the NTSC
signal but nothing was displayed. When I connected my signal to the
DVD player and I fed the output of DVD player into the eye glasses
then it displayed fine. I am assuming the reason for not displaying
is the color burst that is missing (When I compared my signal and the
output of the DVD player signal, the color burst was missing). This
why I was trying to see if I can sum the 3.472MHz signal with my NTSC
signal and see if I can display my signal on the eye glasses. By the
way the eye glasses have VGA color display that takes the NTSC or PAL
signal.

Thank you all,

John.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
What the F is taking you so goddammed long to answer some simple
questions!!! And all this delay from the 12-hour crisis manager,
expediter , and miracle worker...LOL...

A triple post! Dimbulb, is that you?!
 
E

eeaj2002

Jan 1, 1970
0
   Fred. double terminated video amps have been the standard for over 50
years.  I can't help it if you don't understand.  Look at a few of the
Linear, Analog or Maxim data sheets for video amplifiers and educate
yourself.

   In the early days the video amp was a cathode follower circuit.
Early solid state were emitter follower circuits.  The amp needs as low
of an output impedance as practical, then has to be matched to both ends
of the 75 ohm coax. I apologize if you can't grasp this simple concept.
Look at simple video distribution designs, too.

   The OP  said that he is using National's LMC6484 with a 1.5 MHz
badwidth which isn't a good choice. He didn't show a sample of the
circuit, or provide a link to it.  Unity gain amplifiers generally don't
like high capacitance loads.  The series resistance eliminates that
problem, and provides an excellent match to the cable's characteristic
impedance. Without more information about his design, it is impossible
to give exact details. He didn't tell us if it is DC or capacitor
coupled.  If it is DC coupled is there any DC offset.  That was why I
asked if he had looked at it with a scope.  Th last video amp design I
worked on had a 0 to -63 dB output control, in .1 dB steps.  It also had
a DC to 40 MHz bandwidth.  It is under a NDA, and I had to leave all the
documentation behind when the job was completed.  The gain control used
an 18 bit serial interfaced D/A converter, and a four quadrant
multiplier to give a -24 to -63 dB range.  For the upper range a set of
analog switches switched in a 24 dB gain stage.  This method allowed the
full range, while keeping the noise figure at an acceptable level.  The
-3 dB point varried from 49 to 73 MHz in the production boards.  The
embedded controller measured the DC offset and zeroed it, as well as
setting the gain and switching the extra stage.  This was followed by 16
seperate Sallen Key filters for the desired bandwidth. They were
selected by a pair of 16 to one analog mux chips.

   The worst video amplifier I ever had to work with was an RCA design
with 17 6146 tubes. It was used in a TTU-25B TV transmitter, and
probably other TV transmitters. One tube drove the other 16 in a
distributed amplifier configuration, and all 16 had to be matched. It
modulated the 1 KW stage of the TTU-1 transmitter which was the driver
for the larger transmitter design.

--
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Sorry guys for the delay. Let me explain myself one more time. I
think my signal matches the EIA standard and I have no problem when I
connect it to the TV. It displays withouth any problem.
I have not summed my signal with the oscillator yet but I was going
to. I have not used any opamp yet.
My output is very simple. I used exactly the application note made by
TI and I have duplicated. The TI appnote can be found in the
following URL address:

http://www.gaw.ru/pdf/TI/app/msp430/slaa177.pdf.

Please see the page 3 of this apnote for the schematic.

I thought if I add a color burst to this output it might work.

Thanks guys for the help,

John.
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
You really don't want to run an op-amp right up against it's
gain-bandwidth product. The design philosophy of an op-amp is that you
use a crappy amplifier with tons of excess gain, and fix all of the
amplifier problems with tons of feedback. When you get close to the
loop bandwidth, you no longer have tons of excess gain with which to
generate tons of feedback, and all you're left with is a crappy amplifier.

I'd be looking for an op-amp with a G-B product of 10MHz or more (and
10x is still wimpy), or if my circuit only needed to be AC coupled I'd
seriously consider using an emitter- or source-follower to buffer my
oscillator.

Not all op amps are glorified 324s, though some certainly are.

Many of those crappy amplifiers are actually pretty good nowadays,
unless you expect them to be nice and linear up to the supply rails on
both sides, put up with your relatives, cook your dinner, and so on.
I'd get a bit cranky with that sort of treatment myself.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
AC-couple the output. The circuit can't support a DC path to ground.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

I think your right. Plus if you think about it, just about anything
designed to receive video has a "gen-lock" mode to receive monochrome,
so I find it hard to believe the gear won't work with a monochrome
signal.
 
E

eeaj2002

Jan 1, 1970
0
AC-couple the output. The circuit can't support a DC path to ground.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Hi Jim,

I am not sure what you mean please by "AC-couple the output. The
circuit can't support a DC path to ground."

Thanks,
John.
 
T

Tom Del Rosso

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Wescott said:
You really don't want to run an op-amp right up against it's
gain-bandwidth product. The design philosophy of an op-amp is that
you use a crappy amplifier with tons of excess gain, and fix all of
the amplifier problems with tons of feedback. When you get close to
the
loop bandwidth, you no longer have tons of excess gain with which to
generate tons of feedback, and all you're left with is a crappy
amplifier.

That paragraph should be in the 3rd edition of AoE.
 
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