OT Multifunction Tool Review

[krw]

Happened to be in Lowe's this morning for other reasons, but I checked
out the Dremel... looks like they've fixed the blade holder to be like
Bosch et al.

I'll listen here for awhile longer before making my choice... I mainly
need grout clean-up, but wish they all could do metal.

I used my Rotozip to cut the grout out of the master bathroom in my VT
house. What an expensive, time consuming, and frustrating chore! The
bits are $10 each and Home Despot. I went through about two dozen of
them. Fortunately, I found them for 3/$10 online after I found out
how many I was going to be using. I certainly hope there never is a
next time for that job, but if there is I'll certainly try a Multi*
tool.

 

[krw]

It appears to be an oscillating, not rotating, tool. How did they eliminate
vibrations?

I believe the idea is to cut or grind the surface rather than rip/tear
it. Sorta like a reciprocating saw. Put the wrong blade in the thing
and you'll go for a ride or perhaps even break an arm.

 

[Joerg]

[...]

On stuff that you use a lot I agree. The best is my Metabo drill (a very
reputable German brand). I really tortured that thing, stuff like
sanding off the paint of >1000sqft of decking in 10h Marathon-sessions.
The only thing that ever went kaputt in 35 years was the strain relief
area of the power cord, fixed in five minutes.

Even on stuff that's not used a lot. It's no savings to have a saw
that can't cut a straight line.

On a saw, yes, that's bad. I've made that mistake. After moving across
an ocean we needed to buy lots of stuff new. So that wasn't the time for
large tool expenses. But I needed a circular saw so I got one on "sale"
at ACE, a Black&Decker. BIG mistake, the bearing started to develop
sideways slack really fast, no straight cuts possible anymore. Then I
bought an older all-metal Skil at a yard sale, 12 bucks. Best saw I ever
owned.

 

[krw]

Hi Keith,



I'd be surprised if it accepts the 12V batteries, although I suppose it
could... someone could have designed them a little buck or Cuk converter in
there.

The charger is advertised as working with both the 4V and 12V batteries, which
is good.

Ah, yes. I misread the page. I'm not so interested if it takes yet
another battery type.

I was talking about this one:
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...=2450-22&CategoryName=SC:+M12+Cordless+System

Yes, that looks a lot like the Bosch.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=0490-20&CategoryName=SC:Screwdrivers

We had the "broken cylinder"-type screwdrivers back, wow, ~15 years ago now
where I once worked. I saw very little value in them.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=0490-20&CategoryName=SC:Screwdrivers
Nope. None.

At the moment the only handheld circular saw I have is a 14.4V Dewalt --
certainly not in the same league as yours there, although I'm generally just
using it to cut through plywood, so it's adequate if not stellar. I've been
occasionally kicking around the idea of the 36V Dewalt cordless circular saw,
since AFAIK it's the only "prosumer" level cordless saw that accepts full
7-1/4" blades. I keep hoping they'll release a 18V (using the newer Nano
batteries) version. (The current 18V version is 6-1/2"... grumble...)

I have the 18V circular saw too. It's OK, but I still reach for the
DW364. I bought the cordless saw to more or less replace the 3-3/8"
9.6V Makita. It was great for cedar siding, but not much good for
anything else. Since my current house has cement siding...

I think it's actually a bit heavier than the Dremel... but more expensive too
($120-$180 depending on how many accessories you'd like included in the kit
vs. $100). So you're about 1/3 the price of a Fein Multimaster, and the
reviews I read said it really was almost as good... except for having the old
screw-lock blades that are prone to just out of position if you apply too much
sideways torque. I bought it over the Dremel based on thinking I'd want the
slightly-more-powerful motor and the perceived better availability of
accessories, but objectively I have no idea how valid those thoughts are.

Really? Is this a different one? I know nothing about them and just
found this with a search.
https://www.sonicrafter.com/index.asp

But I do know that it works and I'm happy enough with it to keep it.

Hmm... I see that "everything Dremel" is now made in China, understandably
enough. I bought my first Dremel tool back in high school, back when they
were made in my home state of Wisconsin (in fact, my mother and grandparents
spent years living in Racine, Wisconsin, where they started)... how times
change...

Maybe that's why Arrow and Avenet are always visiting us. We still
manufacture our own stuff.

[*] Which reminds me. I gotta find it so I can get its batteries out
of the garage. It's often over 120F in there.

Our pressure washer ruptured its (some sort of cast metal) output hose
connection over last winter, which utterly amazed me (both because I wouldn't
have thought much water would have remained in the thing nor that, in our
garage in southern Oregon, it would have gotten down to freezing). Happily,
the replacement part was cheap and readily available from Amazon. Amusingly,
one of the customer comments about it began with, "I left my pressure washer
in my garage over winter..."

Living in VT sorta forced a respect for freezing water. Here in AL,
they don't even have frost-free silcocks. Scares the crap outta me,
since everything is built on a slab.

Amazon's best-selling "home improvement" list can be interesting to look at:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/hi/551236/ref=pd_ts_hi_nav -- it's
usually heavily weighted with power tools!

Amazon knows my address well. ;-) I bought a Unisaw from them a
couple of months ago and there are smiley boxes all over the garage.
The Unisaw was too good of a deal to pass up (a slow economy has its
benefits). Even SWMBO didn't flinch, too much. "It didn't cost any
more than the quilt on our bed (that the cats sleep on)." ;-)

 

[ehsjr]

The blade spindle. I want to know if I can buy those cheap HF blades and
put them on my Fein. A single blade from Fein costs over $30, or used to.
I resorted to slicing a piece off the end of a japanese-style pull saw and
drilling a mounting hole to fabricate a blade when I need one, but that
doesn't work so good. The pull saw steel isn't rugged enough for use in a
power tool -- it gets hot and wears out quick.
Any way, HF blades are the right price. I'd sure go for 'em, if I can mount
them on my Fein. Got a caliper?

The blade mounting screw is an M8 cap screw according to the
parts list, with nominal diameter min/max of 7.78 to 8.0 mm
The thread diameter for the blade mounting screw measures .31"
with the caliper, so that's verified. The hole in the blade
is, of course, a little greater than .31" diameter. I think
the hole size is all that matters, but I measured the shoulder
of the spindle that the blade sits on anyway. My caliper is
0-1 inch, just a bit too small to measure the shoulder of the
spindle that the blade is mounted to. The ruler says 1 1/16"
for the spindle shoulder.

Haven't seen the Fein blades, but I would bet they are more
durable than the Harbor Freight blades.

Ed

 

[ehsjr]

It appears to be an oscillating, not rotating, tool. How did they eliminate
vibrations?

Yes, it is definitely oscillating. I have no idea how they
minimize the vibration, or even if it is necessary. The
oscillation amplitude is very small, and frequency is
rated at 11000 cps. Vibration might be a factor if you use
the tool for a long time - I don't know. My testing was brief.

Ed
time

 

[baron]

Michael Robinson Inscribed thus:

The blade order form that came with my Fein when I bought it in 2004
lists
prices between $30 to $48 for various blades. I think you can see why
I'm looking for another source of blades.
The screw size doesn't really help. Fein uses an M6 screw, but the
screw
doesn't actually center the blade. The mounting the blade sits on has
a 10mm diameter lip that mates with the blade hole to keep the blade
centered. (The blade holes are actually 10.1 mm, the tool lip measures
exactly 10mm).
I'm trying to find out whether Harbor Freight blades will fit the
Fein. I need either the blade hole size or the size of the feature
on the HF, be it spindle, shoulder or lip for centering the blade.

If you access to a lathe, turn a collar to take up the difference !
It wouldn't be the first time that I have skimmed a shoulder to take a
smaller centre.

On my Makita the blade mounting is a loose collar that is reversible so
you can turn it over for a larger/smaller hole.

 

[Joerg]

The blade order form that came with my Fein when I bought it in 2004 lists
prices between $30 to $48 for various blades. I think you can see why I'm
looking for another source of blades.
The screw size doesn't really help. Fein uses an M6 screw, but the screw
doesn't actually center the blade. The mounting the blade sits on has a
10mm diameter lip that mates with the blade hole to keep the blade centered.
(The blade holes are actually 10.1 mm, the tool lip measures exactly 10mm).
I'm trying to find out whether Harbor Freight blades will fit the Fein. I
need either the blade hole size or the size of the feature on the HF, be it
spindle, shoulder or lip for centering the blade.

Why not just buy the HF tool and use it for anything where you don't
need the precision of the Fein, in case there turns out to be enough of
a difference?

 

[krw]

Hi Keith,



That's the one. Kinda cheesy web site there... (I bought mine from Amazon.)

I wonder why Amazon is 3X the price? Has it been discontinued?

Here's a review:
http://www.toolsnob.com/archives/2008/11/rockwell_sonicrafter_review.php

Interesting. As the site indicates, I'd be a little concerned by the
"who is Rockwell" question. BTW, who *is* Rockwell. ;-)

They have a link there to a "round up" of others too:
http://www.toolsnob.com/archives/2008/10/dremel_dremel_multimax_oscilla.php

Good information. Thanks. I think it convinced me that the Bosch is
what I want. I'm not anticipating using it for sanding. I am
concerned about it killing a battery in eight minutes. A 7.5C
discharge rate sounds incredibly hard on the pack.

I need to cut some bamboo flooring. One of these tools is the only
way I can think of to cut the flooring up to the wall. I'll use a
circular saw out in the middle so I don't need to cut all that far.
OTOH, I may just rip up the whole floor and start over. ;-) Actually,
if it weren't glued down, I probably would.

Nice!

Unfortunately it's too hot to use it now.

I have the Craftsman version of the Ryobi BT3000 saw, which is sufficient
enough for my current needs. My favorite saw is a Makita LS1214FL compond
sliding miter saw that my wife bought me a couple years ago for my birthday...
it's a beautiful piece of machinery that I expect will easily outlive me.
Even the purring sounds of the gears and the motor as the blade spins up and
down are a joy to listen to.

That's a nice saw. As I said earlier I have the HF 10" SCMS and am
considering upgrading it. The thing is on a Dewalt stand that cost
twice as much as the saw did. ;-) Do you consider the 12" saw to be
a big advantage over the 10". I was going to stay with the 10" so I
didn't have to buy new blades. Both my Crapsman RAS and Unisaw are
10" and I have a few nice blades. 10" blades are also considerably
cheaper than 12". I don't cut too many 4x4s, and I've always used a
hand-held with the cut-n-flip routine.

I do think we're about to hit the golden age of cordless power tools... the
improvements in battery life (driven largely by laptops and cell phones, I
imagine) have really helped their performance within the past decade.

I think we're already there. I would have scoffed at the idea of a
battery powered circular saw. My 15YO Makita is good for clapboards,
but a 1/2" piece of plywood will choke it. The Dewalt 18V has a blade
that's twice the size and it'll chew right through plywood.

 

[krw]

krw wrote:

[...]

For the occasional home or small biz user the Harborfreight version
might be good enough.
Sometimes (usually) the aggravation of cheap tools isn't worth the
money saved. I learned long ago to stay *far* away from Crapsman
power tools. The only one I have left is a RAS, but it hasn't been
plugged in for over a decade. It may never be again (bought a Delta
Unisaw earlier this year and I have a HF SCMS (which will likely be
replaced by a Bosch within a year or so).

On stuff that you use a lot I agree. The best is my Metabo drill (a very
reputable German brand). I really tortured that thing, stuff like
sanding off the paint of >1000sqft of decking in 10h Marathon-sessions.
The only thing that ever went kaputt in 35 years was the strain relief
area of the power cord, fixed in five minutes.

Even on stuff that's not used a lot. It's no savings to have a saw
that can't cut a straight line.

On a saw, yes, that's bad. I've made that mistake. After moving across
an ocean we needed to buy lots of stuff new. So that wasn't the time for
large tool expenses. But I needed a circular saw so I got one on "sale"
at ACE, a Black&Decker. BIG mistake, the bearing started to develop
sideways slack really fast, no straight cuts possible anymore.

I had a Crapsman circular saw that came with such sloppy bearings and
a sabre saw that's blade insists on following the grain. I won't make
that mistake again. I buy good tools so I won't get stuck with junk.

Then I bought an older all-metal Skil at a yard sale, 12 bucks. Best saw I ever
owned.

A worm-gear drive saw? I don't like those at all. Next time you're
at a Lowes, or such, check out the Dewalt rear-pivot circular saw.
It's simply amazing.

 

[Joerg]

I wonder why Amazon is 3X the price? Has it been discontinued?


Interesting. As the site indicates, I'd be a little concerned by the
"who is Rockwell" question. BTW, who *is* Rockwell. ;-)


Good information. Thanks. I think it convinced me that the Bosch is
what I want. I'm not anticipating using it for sanding. I am
concerned about it killing a battery in eight minutes. A 7.5C
discharge rate sounds incredibly hard on the pack.

I need to cut some bamboo flooring. One of these tools is the only
way I can think of to cut the flooring up to the wall. I'll use a
circular saw out in the middle so I don't need to cut all that far.
OTOH, I may just rip up the whole floor and start over. ;-) Actually,
if it weren't glued down, I probably would.

Did that bamboo flooring hold up pretty good? Do you know when the
previous owners put it in? A bit concerned about scratch from dog paws
though. We sometimes take in quite rambunctuous guide dog puppies.

[...]

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:
[...]

For the occasional home or small biz user the Harborfreight version
might be good enough.
Sometimes (usually) the aggravation of cheap tools isn't worth the
money saved. I learned long ago to stay *far* away from Crapsman
power tools. The only one I have left is a RAS, but it hasn't been
plugged in for over a decade. It may never be again (bought a Delta
Unisaw earlier this year and I have a HF SCMS (which will likely be
replaced by a Bosch within a year or so).
On stuff that you use a lot I agree. The best is my Metabo drill (a very
reputable German brand). I really tortured that thing, stuff like
sanding off the paint of >1000sqft of decking in 10h Marathon-sessions.
The only thing that ever went kaputt in 35 years was the strain relief
area of the power cord, fixed in five minutes.
Even on stuff that's not used a lot. It's no savings to have a saw
that can't cut a straight line.

On a saw, yes, that's bad. I've made that mistake. After moving across
an ocean we needed to buy lots of stuff new. So that wasn't the time for
large tool expenses. But I needed a circular saw so I got one on "sale"
at ACE, a Black&Decker. BIG mistake, the bearing started to develop
sideways slack really fast, no straight cuts possible anymore.

I had a Crapsman circular saw that came with such sloppy bearings and
a sabre saw that's blade insists on following the grain. I won't make
that mistake again. I buy good tools so I won't get stuck with junk.

I don't know their electric tools but the hand tools so far held up
pretty good. I've heard they come with lifetime warranty, not sure,
since nothing ever broke.

A worm-gear drive saw? I don't like those at all. Next time you're
at a Lowes, or such, check out the Dewalt rear-pivot circular saw.
It's simply amazing.

Well, I am totally happy with that Skil. It has sawed hundreds of sqft
of decking to size, cut through lots of Hardibacker (that ought to be
torture for a saw) using carbide blades, and so on.

 

[Joerg]

Hi Keith,



No, it's because you're not noticing the "3 payments of" in tiny print at
sonicrafter.com! (I.e., it is the same price -- $120-$180 total depending
which kit you're after).


Yeah, these days many brands names are largely meaningless. The same
marketing guys who figure that if a movie did well a sequel is surely worth
making (even if said sequel has completely different writers and producers)
also seem to figure that a well-known brand name once holds value forever.
Just like Lenovo, Commodore computers were around long after the original
company went kaput.


Actually I only "hinted" at getting the 10" saw, but my wife "upgraded" me to
the 12" version. I was a little shocked at the price of 12" blades --
after having to replace one I now treat them a little better, to try to get
them to last longer!

Clean them really well, remove all gunk before storage. I made that
mistake once, blade pretty gummed up from sap, had another 8-10ft to go,
thought "c'mon, you can finish that run" and pushed the saw quite hard.
When I was through a thick blue cloud wafted through the valley and the
blade was thoroughly shot. All the carbide tips burned. I could scrape
the black crystallized stuff off but it would never cut well again.

 

[krw]

Did that bamboo flooring hold up pretty good? Do you know when the
previous owners put it in? A bit concerned about scratch from dog paws
though. We sometimes take in quite rambunctuous guide dog puppies.

It's a new house. It was built in '07 and the builder lived in it for
six months before we bought it. You can see where it's faded in the
closets. It's a light color to begin with and has faded considerably.
Scratched all to hell too.

This stuff sucks, but the bamboo I installed VT was really nice. If
it had one fault, it was that it was too perfect. It looked like a
bowling alley and showed spots. It was much harder than this stuff
but still dented. I'm planning on finishing the bonus room over the
garage. I may put in bamboo there too (it's cheap), but it won't be
this crap.

If you consider bamboo, look around. There seems to be a pretty wide
variety of species and finish qualities. Also, I highly recommend
against the horizontally laminated stuff. The vertical seems to be
harder and looks much better, IMO. OTOH, no flooring will stand up to
wild dogs. The good news is that bamboo is pretty impervious to water
and it doesn't swell or warp.

 

[krw]

krw wrote:
krw wrote:
[...]

For the occasional home or small biz user the Harborfreight version
might be good enough.
Sometimes (usually) the aggravation of cheap tools isn't worth the
money saved. I learned long ago to stay *far* away from Crapsman
power tools. The only one I have left is a RAS, but it hasn't been
plugged in for over a decade. It may never be again (bought a Delta
Unisaw earlier this year and I have a HF SCMS (which will likely be
replaced by a Bosch within a year or so).
On stuff that you use a lot I agree. The best is my Metabo drill (a very
reputable German brand). I really tortured that thing, stuff like
sanding off the paint of >1000sqft of decking in 10h Marathon-sessions.
The only thing that ever went kaputt in 35 years was the strain relief
area of the power cord, fixed in five minutes.
Even on stuff that's not used a lot. It's no savings to have a saw
that can't cut a straight line.

On a saw, yes, that's bad. I've made that mistake. After moving across
an ocean we needed to buy lots of stuff new. So that wasn't the time for
large tool expenses. But I needed a circular saw so I got one on "sale"
at ACE, a Black&Decker. BIG mistake, the bearing started to develop
sideways slack really fast, no straight cuts possible anymore.

I had a Crapsman circular saw that came with such sloppy bearings and
a sabre saw that's blade insists on following the grain. I won't make
that mistake again. I buy good tools so I won't get stuck with junk.

I don't know their electric tools but the hand tools so far held up
pretty good. I've heard they come with lifetime warranty, not sure,
since nothing ever broke.

Right. Their hand tools, particularly mechanic's tools, aren't awful.
There are better but shade-tree mechanics have little use for them.

Well, I am totally happy with that Skil. It has sawed hundreds of sqft
of decking to size, cut through lots of Hardibacker (that ought to be
torture for a saw) using carbide blades, and so on.

They're really heavy and there are "better" saws out there now. For
$12, not so much. ;-)

 

[ehsjr]

The blade order form that came with my Fein when I bought it in 2004 lists
prices between $30 to $48 for various blades. I think you can see why I'm
looking for another source of blades.
The screw size doesn't really help. Fein uses an M6 screw, but the screw
doesn't actually center the blade. The mounting the blade sits on has a
10mm diameter lip that mates with the blade hole to keep the blade centered.
(The blade holes are actually 10.1 mm, the tool lip measures exactly 10mm).
I'm trying to find out whether Harbor Freight blades will fit the Fein. I
need either the blade hole size or the size of the feature on the HF, be it
spindle, shoulder or lip for centering the blade.

Why not just buy the blades from HF? $5.99 for a 3 blade set.
Item # 65979-0VGA
If they don't fit, you're out only a few bucks.

Ed

 

[Joerg]

How good the warranty is is largely determined by your local store's
management... if you take in, e.g., a broken socket wrench, some will tell you
to head on over to the wall and get a new one, whereas others will give you a
re-build kit and let you worry about the actual repair. :-( (And while I have
nothing against re-building tools -- it's certainly a good idea -- I think it
should be Sears doing it, not *me*.)

But a re-build kit is still better than having to chuck it.

Is that just home maintenance, Joerg? Or have you been expanding the
house/building sheds or garages/etc.?

We bought an early 70's era house and some areas needed replacement. The
northern part of the deck alone required $1000 worth of lumber, three
trips because of the weight, lots of intricate cuts. Then bathroom
remodels and all sorts of other stuff where the saw really had to really
prove itself.

 

[Joerg]

It's a new house. It was built in '07 and the builder lived in it for
six months before we bought it. You can see where it's faded in the
closets. It's a light color to begin with and has faded considerably.
Scratched all to hell too.

This stuff sucks, but the bamboo I installed VT was really nice. If
it had one fault, it was that it was too perfect. It looked like a
bowling alley and showed spots. It was much harder than this stuff
but still dented. I'm planning on finishing the bonus room over the
garage. I may put in bamboo there too (it's cheap), but it won't be
this crap.

If you consider bamboo, look around. There seems to be a pretty wide
variety of species and finish qualities. Also, I highly recommend
against the horizontally laminated stuff. The vertical seems to be
harder and looks much better, IMO. OTOH, no flooring will stand up to
wild dogs. The good news is that bamboo is pretty impervious to water
and it doesn't swell or warp.

Thanks, Keith, that gives me good input. Looks like no bamboo then
because we are planning to get more serious with the guide dog program,
meaning more dogs in the house and they are all from different raisers.
Some behaved, others not so behaved. Labrador puppies (and all the way
up to 13 months) nearly all do their hourly tantrum runs around the
couch or something. It's their thing.

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:
krw wrote:
[...]

For the occasional home or small biz user the Harborfreight version
might be good enough.
Sometimes (usually) the aggravation of cheap tools isn't worth the
money saved. I learned long ago to stay *far* away from Crapsman
power tools. The only one I have left is a RAS, but it hasn't been
plugged in for over a decade. It may never be again (bought a Delta
Unisaw earlier this year and I have a HF SCMS (which will likely be
replaced by a Bosch within a year or so).
On stuff that you use a lot I agree. The best is my Metabo drill (a very
reputable German brand). I really tortured that thing, stuff like
sanding off the paint of >1000sqft of decking in 10h Marathon-sessions.
The only thing that ever went kaputt in 35 years was the strain relief
area of the power cord, fixed in five minutes.
Even on stuff that's not used a lot. It's no savings to have a saw
that can't cut a straight line.
On a saw, yes, that's bad. I've made that mistake. After moving across
an ocean we needed to buy lots of stuff new. So that wasn't the time for
large tool expenses. But I needed a circular saw so I got one on "sale"
at ACE, a Black&Decker. BIG mistake, the bearing started to develop
sideways slack really fast, no straight cuts possible anymore.
I had a Crapsman circular saw that came with such sloppy bearings and
a sabre saw that's blade insists on following the grain. I won't make
that mistake again. I buy good tools so I won't get stuck with junk.

I don't know their electric tools but the hand tools so far held up
pretty good. I've heard they come with lifetime warranty, not sure,
since nothing ever broke.

Right. Their hand tools, particularly mechanic's tools, aren't awful.
There are better but shade-tree mechanics have little use for them.

Well, I am totally happy with that Skil. It has sawed hundreds of sqft
of decking to size, cut through lots of Hardibacker (that ought to be
torture for a saw) using carbide blades, and so on.

They're really heavy and there are "better" saws out there now. For
$12, not so much. ;-)

It sure is heavy but I like that. Just like the camera crews that
complained when the new Sony series came out and it didn't weigh enough.

 

[krw]

Thanks, Keith, that gives me good input. Looks like no bamboo then
because we are planning to get more serious with the guide dog program,
meaning more dogs in the house and they are all from different raisers.
Some behaved, others not so behaved. Labrador puppies (and all the way
up to 13 months) nearly all do their hourly tantrum runs around the
couch or something. It's their thing.

ISTM that tile is your only alternative. Any sort of wood or vinyl
(yuck) will get destroyed by growing dogs. Since you'll have
perpetual puppies, you're going to have to bullet proof your house.