OT- Silly proposal to solve the immigration crisis

[Charlie E.]

Ok, Pam and I were talking last night, and she came up with a new idea
for dealing with the immigration crisis

What if some state, say California, should follow Arizona's lead, but
in a different direction, and offer illegal aliens California
Citzenship! They could then get driver's licenses, work legally,
support their communities, pay taxes (at least to the state!) and
maybe would get the feds off their duffs!

She figures make them have at least two years of residence in the
state, have to take a test in state history (which would cost $100)
that was available ONLY IN ENGLISH!, and maybe a few other
requirements. Any new immigrant to then sign up for a new CA green
card, be a legal worker, and would have those two years to pass the
history and english tests. It they don't pass the tests, they need to
go home!

So, each state could have different citzenship criteria, So What! That
will breed competition between the states to attract the best and
brightest...

Charlie

 

[Rich Webb]

Ok, Pam and I were talking last night, and she came up with a new idea
for dealing with the immigration crisis

There is no "immigration crisis." The number of illegal immigrants is
actually falling in absolute terms, even more so as a percentage of the
population. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/02/us/02immig.html

Even better, statistics (as contrasted with the OhMyGod The imgrents are
beheadin everwun! and similar nonsense) seem to indicate that net
immigration is an economic stimulus and a net gain overall.
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2010/el2010-26.html

Of course, reality has a well-known liberal bias.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Ok, Pam and I were talking last night, and she came up with a new idea
for dealing with the immigration crisis

What if some state, say California, should follow Arizona's lead, but
in a different direction, and offer illegal aliens California
Citzenship! They could then get driver's licenses, work legally,
support their communities, pay taxes (at least to the state!) and
maybe would get the feds off their duffs!

She figures make them have at least two years of residence in the
state, have to take a test in state history (which would cost $100)
that was available ONLY IN ENGLISH!, and maybe a few other
requirements. Any new immigrant to then sign up for a new CA green
card, be a legal worker, and would have those two years to pass the
history and english tests. It they don't pass the tests, they need to
go home!

So, each state could have different citzenship criteria, So What! That
will breed competition between the states to attract the best and
brightest...

EXCEPT they basically already do this!

The real question is that of sovereignty! WTF should we allow all these
Mexicans in to turn out country into another 3rd world one? Why the **** is
it that only America does not have the right to preserve their culture and
history? It's ok for any other country to do so but OH NO! God forbid if
America even attempts to go in that direction! Instead we have to do exactly
the opposite? Why? Cause we are all racists? More racist than the other
countries that have do exactly what we are called racists for even thinking
about it? Oh, it's because America is suppose to be an example to all the
other countries? Who the **** said that? I don't give a shit about being an
example to people that hate us.

I'm tired of the left trying to tell us that we have to give up our
sovereignty because it is the right thing to do. This is just more of the
left's attempt to destroy America(where else would they get such an idea?).

How bout the right thing for Mexico to do? Or the illegal's to do? Oh, they
are not held to the same standard? They are allowed to keep there culture
but we are not cause we are all racists?

What the hell is going to happen to this country when half the population
are people who just hoped over the fence to "get a better life". Why the
hell couldn't these people get a better life in their own country? Cause
there country is a failure? Why? Do any of those people bear any
responsibility for that? Of course not... I'm just a confused racist that
believes a culture shouldn't be hijacked by another culture. Of course there
is no doubt in my mind where the allegiance of illegal's stand.

I wonder how Mexico would handle it if all the white fled into Mexico for
whatever reason? I wonder if the whites would get welfare, free health care,
a job, free schooling, etc...? Will Mexico do the "right thing"?

 

[Rich Webb]

No other country cottens to any group that does not speak "their"
language.

Correct. No other country except... Canada? Belgium? India? Afghanistan?
Arguably, the UK as well. Many others. For an extreme example, there's
Papua New Guinea with over 850 indigenous languages.

So why has the erstwhile language of the US gone by the wayside?

Because, it hasn't?

 

[[email protected]]

That's a different point, and a decent one. Once upon a time people
came here because they wanted to join and be Americans--the "melting
pot." Now they come and are encouraged to try to make America look
like their home, the one they escaped here from.

That's celebrated in the name of "diversity," but it's divisive. We
need a better balance, a happier medium short of Borg-style
assimilation, yet avoiding Balkanization.

Change the immigration policy back to a quota system where each country has a
quota of immigrants, who can apply based on a set of qualifications based on
*our* needs (one of which being English speaking).

 

[[email protected]]

The melting pot was a newspaper fiction. People are generally quite
happy to live with their homeland customs more or less intact wherever
they are, leaving us blessed with Chinese, Italian, Korean, Norwegian,
etc neighborhoods in our big cities. Here is a list for NYC (alhtough
I usually don't count "gay" as an ethnic variety):

http://walkingaround.com/

It's not fiction. Each generation assimilates further. That won't happen if
the pot won't let it happen.

 

[[email protected]]

Canada is officially bilingual. Mexico conducts business in 63
languages. Most South American countries have many official
languages. Israel has two official languages as do the Philippines and
Hong Kong, Belgium has three, Switzerland has four, and Spain has a
half-dozen bilingual regions.

Shall I go on?

How many would rather have one language? How much is wasted in translations?

 

[[email protected]]

Some of you people are just fringing nuts … do any of you have a
number for the time constant to “assimilate”?

People won't assimilate if there is no reason. E2L does them no favors.

My grandparents were the first of our family to emigrate here from
Western Europe. I can still recall back in ‘late ‘60’s thinking how
they were stuck in some very old ways of the “old” country.
Strawman.

Culture by definition is dynamic. If you want to keep things static
dig yourself a very big hole and jump in.
Stupid.

Read some history, the Chinks, Mics, Kruts and Waps all took time to
assimilate into the “American” culture. In fact American culture
became them. It’s only natural that folks are going to huddle with
like members for a while.

Sure. They didn't have E2L crap to deal with. They had reason to assimilate
and yes it does take time.

In this day and get people want things to happen fast but stay
static! What a concept.

What an idiot.

 

[[email protected]]

Can you imagine how fast they would learn to speak English if they
had no other choice?

When I was a kid a neighbor's brother and SIL died in a car accident in
Brazil. The two kids came to live with our neighbors, speaking no English at
all, only Portugese. Within six weeks they could communicate. After the
first semester they were fully conversant in English. In two years they were
both kicking the asses of their classmates (one would be me). After a couple
of years, not even an accent. Full immersion is the only way to go. E2L is
the way to keep immigrants in poverty (and as a Demonicrat voting bloc).

 

[[email protected]]

This works fine for kids, but as adults -- who for the sake of argument let's
assume are here legally -- it's a much slower process. While the ability
to acquire new languages varies a lot from person to person, there's no
question that on average it's much slower for someone who's 40 to acquire one
than for someone's who's 4. By age 40, some people will simply never be able
to speak another language fluently, no matter how hard they try (this is
particularly true of some of the Asian language where very subtle intonations
drastically change the meaning of a sentence, whereas in English other than
the implication of exclamation or a query, there's not much to learn...).

Agreed. I'm not so concerned about the first generation or their ability to
assimilate. They don't cost the taxpayers as much as E2L education. The goal
should be for 100% assimilation by the second generation. McD's and all.

Some of my great grandparents came from Germany as young adults, most of them
working as farmers in Wisconsin. Not all of them ever picked up more than a
handful of words of English... but on the other hand, they made darned sure
that all of their children did. (Although I'm not sure this even really
required much effort -- all of public education was being taught in English,
back then...)

....and that is pretty much lost today because we don't let it happen.

Do E2L classes largely replace regular classes? That would be a shame... but
on the other hand, if they're a supplement to classes taught in English (and
the kids still have to do the same English homework as the non-E2L students) ,
I can see a potential benefit.

Yes, and that's the point. There *are* two different schools, just as bad as
white and black drinking fountains. No, no supplements of any kind. Total
immersion is the only fair way to treat the kids *and* the taxpayer. The kids
will survive just fine. They always have.

 

[[email protected]]

Sounds like someone well above average in their ability to acquire languages.
It's a really great skill for those who have it!

It's amazing what one can do when there is no choice.

 

[JosephKK]

Technically since there is no national language, speaking English
isn’t a prerequisite for becoming an American. Although it would be
difficult to argue that being able to communicate in English isn’t a
necessary skill to become a successful citizen in the US.

However, I’d much rather have a semi skilled English speaker that had
a clear understanding and acceptance of the constitution as opposed to
many of these “pseudo Americans” that are popping out of the
woodwork. These guys who believe that “some Americans” aren’t worthy
enough of all rights as provided under the constitution.

Jim

You are misunderstanding one of the points here, if you came here to
become an American, then learn the language the laws are written in.
If you have some other purpose in comming here you are an invader.
Skills and employability are different issues. Legitimate vs.
undocumented likewise separable issue.

 

[[email protected]]

The creative mind has no problem with trying crazy-assed ideas.

Mostly out of curiosity... what if?

95% are wads of paper, though now I mostly use schematic capture,
because it's faster and has "rubber-band" and I don't wear out
erasers.

That seems to offend clods like John Larkin who persist in scribbling
and posting untested/un-thought-out crap ;-)

My only issue with circuit design is sleeping... damn it, I still
dream about problems, and solve them in my sleep... usually around
4AM, but I force myself to stay in bed until morning

Then *phut* - dream and circuit, gone. ;-)

 

[JosephKK]

Or when there's a hot babe in it for you. My pal saw this heart-
breaker in a South American small town, could barely communicate a
word, so he found himself an English-Hebrew dictionary, a cheesy
American romance novel, and stayed up the next few nights in a tent
reading it, one word at a time.

That's how you do it.

I think in your buddy's case it is called incentive. And removing
incentive in the name of diversity is evil.

 

[JosephKK]

The creative mind has no problem with trying crazy-assed ideas.

Mostly out of curiosity... what if?

95% are wads of paper, though now I mostly use schematic capture,
because it's faster and has "rubber-band" and I don't wear out
erasers.

That seems to offend clods like John Larkin who persist in scribbling
and posting untested/un-thought-out crap ;-)

My only issue with circuit design is sleeping... damn it, I still
dream about problems, and solve them in my sleep... usually around
4AM, but I force myself to stay in bed until morning

...Jim Thompson

And that is why you are not quite a Bob Widlar or a Barrie Gilbert.
Not that you are not very good, but the "I won't get out of bed over
it" is part of it.

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Arizona seems to have found a cheaper way to deal with the situation:


http://www.allamericanblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/image_thumb.png

Or, the same page, for those of you blessed with Window's 'Ruin the
URL' feature:

http://snipurl.com/11vdqq

Wonderful idea...and within budget, too.

mike

A wonderful method,
Instead of talking in riddles we now talk in url's.
What a wonderful method(not).

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

Ok, Pam and I were talking last night, and she came up with a new idea
for dealing with the immigration crisis

What if some state, say California, should follow Arizona's lead, but
in a different direction, and offer illegal aliens California
Citzenship! They could then get driver's licenses, work legally,
support their communities, pay taxes (at least to the state!) and
maybe would get the feds off their duffs!

She figures make them have at least two years of residence in the
state, have to take a test in state history (which would cost $100)
that was available ONLY IN ENGLISH!, and maybe a few other
requirements. Any new immigrant to then sign up for a new CA green
card, be a legal worker, and would have those two years to pass the
history and english tests. It they don't pass the tests, they need to
go home!

So, each state could have different citzenship criteria, So What! That
will breed competition between the states to attract the best and
brightest...

Hell, just put a classroom at the border, and if you pass a 12th grade
English reading and comprehension exam, you're in! ;-)

And, of course allow "guest workers" (AKA wetbacks), but only if they
have a sponsor. >:->

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

With all due respect, the "immigration crisis" is over, only because
it has been replaced with the actual "invasion".

Come to Miami and try to blend in.
Unless you speak fluent Spanish, forget it.
Even the McDonald's hamburger joints got rid of english years ago...
I am not kidding. The Coral Gables Micky-Dees has no english in
sight. Not even the sugar packets.

I'm currently boycotting Carl's Jr., because once in Whittier (LA
County, CA), I went in and there wasn't a person in the joint who
spoke English.

And they're some of the rudest people I've ever seen - they'll be
walking three across on the sidewalk, yammering on in Barbarianese,
and not make way - they just push through and essentially shove me
off the sidewalk, like _I'm_ the intruder.

It's pretty sickening, really.

Although, a couple of weeks or so ago, I saw a Mallard Fillmore
featuring President Hussein saying something to the effect that
he's solving the immigrant problem by turning America into a
country that nobody would want to come to anyway.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

That's a different point, and a decent one. Once upon a time people
came here because they wanted to join and be Americans--the "melting
pot." Now they come and are encouraged to try to make America look
like their home, the one they escaped here from.

That's celebrated in the name of "diversity," but it's divisive. We
need a better balance, a happier medium short of Borg-style
assimilation, yet avoiding Balkanization.

I think the most important thing they should do is to bother to learn
English. I don't want to see America turned into Mexico Jr. either.

Thanks,
Rich