Re: relay coil inductance

[life imitates life]

Your wrongness is becoming a work of art. Nobody could be this
consistently wrong by mere chance.

The Fujitsu small telecom-type relays that we use have about a 3:1
dropout time ratio, as measured at the contacts, for diode clamped
versus unclamped coil drive respectively.

Try it on some real relays yourself.

John

Give the numbers, asshole, not your "about" ratio.

How many milliseconds?

Note that if the numbers for 3.3 V relays show significantly faster
performance than those 12V numbers that were given showed, all this crap
discussion is moot because it no longer matters, as all methods are fast
enough.

 

[life imitates life]

you seem to be saying that it doesn't.

Then you haven't read the thread.

I read the pdf. I know where all the methods fall on the table.

With that in mind, re-read what I just wrote, and note that TIME is
what I refer to, not voltages or diode thresholds, which you seem to be
stuck on, even though the relationship is not even linear.

If the TIME numbers are smaller, then NONE of the methods affect
operation enough to matter, since the numbers are ALL faster than the 12V
class numbers.

If the speed does matter that fucking much, shitcan the hard switches,
then he should design a direct driven circuit (custom SSRs) that switches
his signals with FETs or the like. You can even opto-isolate it. Hell,
he can opto-isolate this so he won't get any current back through his
precious chip. He could incorporate optos as a rule.

I have done all this on HV supplies that feed a huge industrial laser
printer. We even made our own HV SSRs that had strings of FETs to handle
the 6kV it was switching. The supply had like 8 different HV supplies on
it, and all were Mpu managed. An 8150C IIRC. I have photos around here
somewhere. There were like two patents filed on it. I think one may have
been the HV SSR. It was hand potted in hard stycast, and then
conformally coated. After all the boards were treated like this, they
were attached to the main motherboard, and the edge leads soldered in.
Then those nodes were also doped and coated.

We had to overcome multiple corona issues since there were several HV
leads under use at any given time that tracked near each other to the
egress side other supply. It was quite a menagerie, and we learned a lot
about corona and HV wire types, and how corona can even migrate a pinhole
through hot Teflon insulation... etc.

WOW. memories. I thought all those were gone already...

 

[Jamie]

The coil voltage won't affect armature speed for a given relay type,
except that the diode clamp voltage to coil voltage ratio will affect
dropout if you're diode clamping: 0.7 volts is a bigger fraction of
3.3 than it is a fraction of 12.

I suggested that *you* try it, to see if a clamp diode changes dropout
time; you seem to be saying that it doesn't. I'm sure not going to set
up an experimant to prove anything to you; you wouldn't believe me if
I did, or you'd find a way to weasel.

John

Reading for who ever cares!

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/lexicon/CoilConfiguration.asp

 

[life imitates life]

you seem to be saying that it doesn't.

You keep saying that, dumbfuck. I never did. So like I said, READ THE
THREAD. I already know where the diode clamp falls in the list.

I'm sure not going to set
up an experimant to prove anything to you;

I never said you should. Thre already numbers out there.

you wouldn't believe me if
I did,

I do not think you can make proper observations. Hell, you do not even
know how to observe the operating instructions for a fucking parts
washer.

or you'd find a way to weasel.

You're a slug.

 

[life imitates life]

AlwaysWrong should read it! Especially the part about the clamp diode.

John

When was the last time you ever saw a relay double flop?

Never.

Also, you stupid twit, the word "clamp" is not even in the document.

 

[Fred Bartoli]

Jim Thompson a écrit :

BTW: My A/C contactors have a magnet assembly to pull the arc out of
the contact gap. I understand there are literally contactors that
"blow" the arc away ;-)

...Jim Thompson

A friend of mine is working on 'medium' power 'contactors' (I think at
this MW power level there's another word).
To open the contacts, they 'coil gun' a metallic mass that slaps the
contacts open. You'd better not being on the trajectory.
Oh, the device is not designed to be opened under load and it just saves
the network once.

 

[Mycelium]

My OP was concerning a relay driver for a custom ASIC on a CMOS
process where I couldn't tolerate more than 7V "kick" and flyback
diodes are "unobtanium".

Of course the thread had deviated far afield ;-)

Turns out I have no need...the customer accepts the high OFF
capacitance of a large PMOS switch.

...Jim Thompson

In other words, a custom SSR, just like I said.

 

[Mycelium]

BTW: My A/C contactors have a magnet assembly to pull the arc out of
the contact gap. I understand there are literally contactors that
"blow" the arc away ;-)

...Jim Thompson

And those that insert an insulative blade in between them as it opens.

 

[Jamie]

He wouldn't know where to start. Besides, to try it for himself, he'd
need some equipment. He wouldn't get far with his broom.

Wait, He made have a degree in this field. No Equipment needed, just
sit back put a happy smile on, knowing every one below him will do his
work so that he can take credit for it.

 

[life imitates life]

This person is clearly an expert in such matters.

It probably comes from the toilet cleaning part of his role as a
janitor.

I always find it funny when a total retard bases his claims of
superiority on his fantasy that the other person has some menial job.

Sorry, PomTard, but even a lowly janitor puts a twit like you under the
table.

 

[life imitates life]

He wouldn't know where to start. Besides, to try it for himself, he'd
need some equipment. He wouldn't get far with his broom.

I probably have more electronic test gear than you do.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Wait, He made have a degree in this field. No Equipment needed, just
sit back put a happy smile on, knowing every one below him will do his
work so that he can take credit for it.

I'll bet that I spent more time researching in the lab, at the bench,
on a breadboard with relays and relay circuits in the last ten years than
you have, you mouthy little bastard.

 

[life imitates life]

I don't follow rules, I make rules.

John

Sure... in your fantasies.

Aside from that, you are still just another idiot.

 

[Jamie]

I'll bet that I spent more time researching in the lab, at the bench,
on a breadboard with relays and relay circuits in the last ten years than
you have, you mouthy little bastard.

Do you really think so?



10 years? You bring a smile to my face.

 

[Rich Grise]

I always thought the sand is there to absorb the blast and molten metal.

That's pretty much the same thing.

Once, when I was in the USAF (ca. 1969), somebody made a mistake ordering
a 15A fuse - they shipped a 15A, 15,000V fuse. It looked just like a 3AG,
except it was about a foot long and about 2 1/2" diameter. We didn't have
any use for it, so we took it apart. It was full of sand (well, you could
see that through the glass) and the element consisted of five or six fine
fuse wire elements, wound around a ceramic core with a star-shaped profile.
(i.e., it only touched the ceramic core at the tips of the star, the rest
was buried in sand.)

The voltage rating of a fuse is defined (well, was, according to the Mil.
Spec.) as the highest open-circuit voltage that can SAFELY be interrupted.

I saw this principle in action once - I was working at an outfit that
used 20A fuses extensively (for heating elements). There were a bunch
of Mexicans working there, and they were using 20A, 32V automotive fuses
in a 240V circuit. One day one blew, and it blew the cap off the fuse
holder (the kind that the fuse slides into, and the cap bayonets onto the
end), all the way across the factory. It's a good thing nobody happened
to be standing in the line of fire at the time!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Jamie]

Too bad my penis is bigger than yours. And that's all that really
matters.

Tim

If I may ask, how would you know that?

 

[life imitates life]

All the gear - no idea.

And you... all the mouth - no truth.

**** off, you little clueless bastard.

 

[life imitates life]

Did your dingleberries jangle when you farted?

More proof of your utter stupidity.

I never have dingleberries, and you apparently do not even know what
the word means.

It is the little shit balls that cling to your ass.

I do not have any because I make sure my ass is clean after I excrete
from it.

You, on the other hand, ARE a dingleberry.

 

[life imitates life]

Too bad my penis is bigger than yours. And that's all that really
matters.

Except that it is not. Not bigger, and NOT all that really matters.

Why you would be intelligent asswipes "chime in" when a retarded,
immature dumbfuck like ian mouths off, is beyond me, but it really takes
you to a lower point than he is at.

Of course, you are not even intelligent, so immaturity goes without
saying when one is talking about where your head is at.

 

[life imitates life]

It could hardly fail to be bigger. By his own admission he "doesn't
have a plonker".

You're an idiot.

No, I do not set filters on anybody, so I do not use "a plonker".

You are so retarded that you think the rest of the world understands
your retarded, and not so colorful at all stupid monikers for everyday
things. You're a stupid fucktard and nothing more.