Regarding compact flourescent (CF) bulbs...

[Rick]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

When I questioned the people at energystar.gov about the problems with
the bulbs, and specifically asked them who actually reviews these
products to make sure they are living up to the energy savings claims,
they ignored the question and only wanted to know what model numbers
were giving me problems. They didn't say the problem of premature
failures would be addressed either. There is no policy information
regarding who gets to use that Energy Star logo and why/when.

Is it me? Well, that's what one manufacturer says must be the problem.
(I must be using the bulbs "too long" each day. I'm turning them on and
off too often. Or I'm putting them in fixtures they shouldn't be used
in. Apparently these are very delicate things...) But I've used the
early model CF bulbs from Panasonic, Osram/Syulvania and Phillips in the
same light fixtures, under the same conditions, and they all lasted five
years or longer.

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

Anyone else having failure problems with these bulbs? The grand champion
of failures has been "LightWiz" by Harmony Lighting. Coming in a close
second is Lights of America. Both brands offered by my utility company
at discount so I can save something...

Rick

 

[GregS]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

When I questioned the people at energystar.gov about the problems with
the bulbs, and specifically asked them who actually reviews these
products to make sure they are living up to the energy savings claims,
they ignored the question and only wanted to know what model numbers
were giving me problems. They didn't say the problem of premature
failures would be addressed either. There is no policy information
regarding who gets to use that Energy Star logo and why/when.

Is it me? Well, that's what one manufacturer says must be the problem.
(I must be using the bulbs "too long" each day. I'm turning them on and
off too often. Or I'm putting them in fixtures they shouldn't be used
in. Apparently these are very delicate things...) But I've used the
early model CF bulbs from Panasonic, Osram/Syulvania and Phillips in the
same light fixtures, under the same conditions, and they all lasted five
years or longer.

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

Anyone else having failure problems with these bulbs? The grand champion
of failures has been "LightWiz" by Harmony Lighting. Coming in a close
second is Lights of America. Both brands offered by my utility company
at discount so I can save something...

I can't say that I have run into any that seemed unusually problematic.
It sounds like you have identified possible problem makes. Sure
glad there are name brands, so you can buy good stuff and not
just the cheapest. The models giving you problems, are they switched on/off
and what kind of lamps are they used in, and what orentation?

greg

 

[Ken Weitzel]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

When I questioned the people at energystar.gov about the problems with
the bulbs, and specifically asked them who actually reviews these
products to make sure they are living up to the energy savings claims,
they ignored the question and only wanted to know what model numbers
were giving me problems. They didn't say the problem of premature
failures would be addressed either. There is no policy information
regarding who gets to use that Energy Star logo and why/when.

Is it me? Well, that's what one manufacturer says must be the problem.
(I must be using the bulbs "too long" each day. I'm turning them on and
off too often. Or I'm putting them in fixtures they shouldn't be used
in. Apparently these are very delicate things...) But I've used the
early model CF bulbs from Panasonic, Osram/Syulvania and Phillips in the
same light fixtures, under the same conditions, and they all lasted five
years or longer.

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

Anyone else having failure problems with these bulbs? The grand champion
of failures has been "LightWiz" by Harmony Lighting. Coming in a close
second is Lights of America. Both brands offered by my utility company
at discount so I can save something...

Hi Rick...

Suspect that in these days of spin-doctoring the energystar
folks are talking of saving _energy_; which they surely do...

Saving energy is far removed from saving you money, eh?

Having said that, I've used them throughout my house for many,
many years, and have had only two fail catastrophically, and
one I discarded because light output fell off too much.

Take care.

Ken

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Hi Rick...

Suspect that in these days of spin-doctoring the energystar
folks are talking of saving _energy_; which they surely do...

Saving energy is far removed from saving you money, eh?

Having said that, I've used them throughout my house for many,
many years, and have had only two fail catastrophically, and
one I discarded because light output fell off too much.

If you catch them just before they fail totally, it may just be
a matter of touching up bad solder connections in the ballast.
I've also found that the spiral type run in anything other than
normal base-down position and/or in semi-enclosed fixtures tend
to fail early. I've only replaced one that failed in a normal
table lamp and in that case, the fluorescent tube itself had
an open filament.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[Mr. Land]

Not sure if I've ever used the Harmony but we did get some of the LoA
bulbs a while back. I gave up on them for exactly the same reason -
they didn't last.

 

[I.F.]

If you catch them just before they fail totally, it may just be
a matter of touching up bad solder connections in the ballast.
I've also found that the spiral type run in anything other than
normal base-down position and/or in semi-enclosed fixtures tend
to fail early. I've only replaced one that failed in a normal
table lamp and in that case, the fluorescent tube itself had
an open filament.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included
in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

Most of the CFLs I've caught just before they fail, had drying up
electrolytics - I used to repair these when they cost £6.50 each but the
local Morrisons store now sells them for £1.99.

 

[Andy Cuffe]

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

That's the problem. You're buying cheap $2 bulbs. Price isn't a sure
indicator of quality, but a $10-$15 name brand bulb will tend to last
much longer than a $2 off brand bulb. The more expensive GE and
Philips bulbs seem to last the longest. Those cheap bulbs also lose
light output much faster than good quality bulbs.

Also remember that 5 years is only an estimate based on an assumed
usage. Most of these bulbs seem to be rated for around 5,000 to
10,000 hours. 10,000 hours is only about 5 hours a day for 5 years.

You're still saving money when you consider that a regular 60W bulb
uses way more than $2 worth of electricity in its life.
Andy Cuffe

[email protected]

 

[JANA]

I found the same problem when I use the lower cost non brand name lamps.
These are usually the ones that are on sale, and the price is a super deluxe
deal.

I found that if I go to an electrical distributor, and buy the name brand
ones at the full price, they last for a long time. It is rare that I get one
of these to be defective before their failure time. The only drawback, is
that they are rather expensive.

I am using compact fluorescent lamps around the house in various places. I
have a few places that I leave them on 24/7. The last one that I changed,
lasted about 4 years without being turned off, except for power failures. I
changed it, because it was starting to look a little dim to me.

--

JANA
_____


Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

When I questioned the people at energystar.gov about the problems with
the bulbs, and specifically asked them who actually reviews these
products to make sure they are living up to the energy savings claims,
they ignored the question and only wanted to know what model numbers
were giving me problems. They didn't say the problem of premature
failures would be addressed either. There is no policy information
regarding who gets to use that Energy Star logo and why/when.

Is it me? Well, that's what one manufacturer says must be the problem.
(I must be using the bulbs "too long" each day. I'm turning them on and
off too often. Or I'm putting them in fixtures they shouldn't be used
in. Apparently these are very delicate things...) But I've used the
early model CF bulbs from Panasonic, Osram/Syulvania and Phillips in the
same light fixtures, under the same conditions, and they all lasted five
years or longer.

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

Anyone else having failure problems with these bulbs? The grand champion
of failures has been "LightWiz" by Harmony Lighting. Coming in a close
second is Lights of America. Both brands offered by my utility company
at discount so I can save something...

Rick

 

[Jason D.]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging

3 LOA lamps failed same way, open filment. The caps in them is top
notch stuff (105C). Both 2 x 150W & 200W.

Cheers, Wizard

 

[ray13]

It's the cheap chinese neo con bulbs they can't make tungsten the way
the USA does. Made by political prisoners that don't want to pick up
that bar of soap the guard tossed on the floor.

I got those panty waist bulbs too $1 apiece and in a couple months the
tungsten is gone. You know that chinese tungsten has got to be as
impure as all get out, and that's a fact jack. How else you going to
keep those political prisoners fed? And the guards got to have their
hot and cold running babes.. An you know they use whale oil lamps for
lights in those prisons.
You know why license plates rust so fast in Michigan? Because we gots
the prisoners stamping those suckas out, an you think they give a rats
behind? Those guys are in for life for christs sake.

 

[James Sweet]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

When I questioned the people at energystar.gov about the problems with
the bulbs, and specifically asked them who actually reviews these
products to make sure they are living up to the energy savings claims,
they ignored the question and only wanted to know what model numbers
were giving me problems. They didn't say the problem of premature
failures would be addressed either. There is no policy information
regarding who gets to use that Energy Star logo and why/when.

Is it me? Well, that's what one manufacturer says must be the problem.
(I must be using the bulbs "too long" each day. I'm turning them on and
off too often. Or I'm putting them in fixtures they shouldn't be used
in. Apparently these are very delicate things...) But I've used the
early model CF bulbs from Panasonic, Osram/Syulvania and Phillips in the
same light fixtures, under the same conditions, and they all lasted five
years or longer.

Is this whole Energy Star/CF bulb concept just bogus? If you have to
toss out even a $2.00 bulb every 18 months are you actually saving
anything at all when you compare the alleged energy savings to the cost
of frequent bulb replacements?

Anyone else having failure problems with these bulbs? The grand champion
of failures has been "LightWiz" by Harmony Lighting. Coming in a close
second is Lights of America. Both brands offered by my utility company
at discount so I can save something...

Rick

You get what you pay for. LOA has always been complete junk, I've never
even heard of LightWiz. I've had mixed results with the cheap Chinese
bulbs, some are in fact quite good but it's a gamble. If you get good GE
or Philips CFLs they'll normally last near their rated life.

 

[Rick]

I can't say that I have run into any that seemed unusually problematic.
It sounds like you have identified possible problem makes. Sure
glad there are name brands, so you can buy good stuff and not
just the cheapest.

Yeah, but... silly me. These two brands come in a catalog offer provided
by my utility company. I thought the endorsement might of meant
something...

The models giving you problems, are they switched on/off
and what kind of lamps are they used in, and what orentation?

greg

Doesn't seem to matter. 60 watt equivalents in overhead hall fixtures
fail. (8" glass globes, facing down orientation.) The same model bulb
used in an oven vent hood - which you would think to be a far worse
environment - doesn't. 75 watt and/or 100 watt eq.'s fail in a bathroom
fixture in which they mount horizontally and the fixture is completely
open at the top. (Medicine cabinet with lights at top.) Circline type CF
bulb in a table lamp made to *only* use that bulb lasts two years maxx.
The last time I replaced that one it cost $12.99 for the damned bulb.
100 watt eq. in a dining chandelier (in a glass hurricane like used with
oil lamps - open at the top, of course) never lasts more than one year.
75 watt eq.'s upright orientation in various table lamps - 18 months
maxx.

FWIW I actually started marking the ballast's with the install date once
I realized there was some kind of a problem to track what the heck was
going on.

And, like I said, with the exception of the proprietary table lamp, used
the early generation CF bulbs in the same fixtures and they all went the
five year distance. Same fixtures, same usage patterns.

What I am finding with my failures is that the ballast's usually appear
to be "burned" where the bulb inserts into the ballast. Kind of a rust
brown color around the holes where the tube inserts. One failure
produced oozing from the ballast.

From a "LightWiz" box:

"Lasts 10,000 hours - up to 7 years in household use!"

Then why don't they provide more than an 8,760 hour (1 year) warranty? I
know - stupid question...

But what does Energy Star actually have to do with any of this? Anyone
gets to use that logo "just because?" Caveat emptor, I guess... The
implication, at least the way I understood this concept, is that the
extra cost of the cf bulbs - even a cheap one still costs more than an
incandescent bulb - is factored in when determining any alleged energy
savings. If you run through 5 bulbs in an "up to 7 years" period seems
like it kind of blows off the whole "look how much I'm saving on my
utility bill!" curve.

Rick

 

[Sarah T]

Hi

In theory these are supposed to be a great idea. Almost all packaging
stipulates somewhere that the bulbs are expected to last for five years.
All packaging has that "Energy Star" logo on it. In practice, I'm
finding the bulbs made in Asia aren't lasting longer than 18 months.
Some have failed in under 10 days. I've collected about a dozen bulbs in
the last two years - none of which lasted more than 18 months.

Its now illegal in Calif to throw them out too....plus they do vibrate
so don't use them if your vision changes, as mine did. Two reasons not
to buy into their scam of so called energy savings.....

 

[frenchy]

I bought 3 of the 'soft white' 100 watt equiv. ones off the net, can't
think of the brand. Two work, the other worked about one hour and then
conked out! These type bulbs have always been reliable for me in the
past. Just kind of pissed me off as they are supposed to outlast a reg
bulb 10 times or whatever and the thing didn't even last thru dinner.
Too big a pain to get a refund for $5 so I tossed it in the trash
(actually I THREW it in the trash!)

 

[GregS]

I bought 3 of the 'soft white' 100 watt equiv. ones off the net, can't
think of the brand. Two work, the other worked about one hour and then
conked out! These type bulbs have always been reliable for me in the
past. Just kind of pissed me off as they are supposed to outlast a reg
bulb 10 times or whatever and the thing didn't even last thru dinner.
Too big a pain to get a refund for $5 so I tossed it in the trash
(actually I THREW it in the trash!)

I'm sure there has been a big market increase along with a big
increase of brands and companies. I have mostly stuck with the ones
from The Home Depot, or long ago, Walmart. Walmart changes
their stock too much, and I hate going to my new Super Walmart.
Light of America always had poorer specs and seemed
to have less build quality. I would prefer to buy a big name
like Phillips.

So, I see many with a life of 6000 hours, or 250 days."Days" is not specific.
"Hours" is. Typical incandesants less than 1000 hours. Halogen
about twice that. If you only use the lamp a few hours per day, they should last
6 years, but there is that turn on/off thing which also decreases life. I think I have bought
a hundred CF's in the last 10 years. Overall I am very satisfied, except unless
you keep very good track of brands, I cannot always get the color
temp I want or need. There is less of a problem of warm up time. That
used to be a big problem.

greg

 

[James Sweet]

Its now illegal in Calif to throw them out too....plus they do vibrate
so don't use them if your vision changes, as mine did. Two reasons not
to buy into their scam of so called energy savings.....

They vibrate? I can't say I've ever run into that...


I have CFLs in nearly every light in my house, I love them and they made
a noticeable reduction in my power bill. I've had some early failures
but others have lasted plenty long and most were cheap. You can't throw
them out but it doesn't cost anything to recycle them, we have places
that accept them for free so I just collect them in a box and take them
there when I have a box full.

 

[[email protected]]

I think the poster meant flicker when he wrote vibrate. LOA are junk,
I have given up on them. I had a quick failure with one GE CFL used
in an enclosed kitchen ceiling light, too much heat build-up I guess.
Another lamp has lasted a couple of years. I think the ventilation of
the ballast is crucial to the life, but the name brands like GE,
Westinghouse, Phillips seem to last the longest.. With the Walmart
cheapies, go back to the service desk with receipts and the original
packaging if you can find it. I like the idea of felt-tip pen marking
installation dates to see actual life and not relying on memory.

H. R. Hofmann

 

[inty's world]

in my cooking room the lamps always *blow*.. from 10 days to 10 months
of last...
*blow* : blackened socket....
i used sylvania, osram, hb (low quality) bulbs.. but they always *blow*
identical bulbs in other rooms lasted 2 or 3 years..

 

[inty's world]

excuse me for the last post... i did not understand "cf bulbs" at the
first time
those contain an electronic inverter... i always cannibalize one before
throwing it away.

 

[James Sweet]

excuse me for the last post... i did not understand "cf bulbs" at the
first time
those contain an electronic inverter... i always cannibalize one before
throwing it away.

They do have a bunch of handy parts in them, not useful to the average
person though.