Sustainable Agriculture.

M

mike wilcox

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gunner said:
Oddly enough..I note a goal post change on your part. Wasnt it you
that spewed that the herbacides were removing all the trace elements?


No, you claimed I said that.
Now you blather on about over planting and so forth like you think you
know something on the subject. Which btw..you dont.

I've been growing my own vegetables for over 30 years, but even a fool
whose never turned a spade knows you cannot grow the same crop on the
same patch for years on end without depleting the soil.
I live in one of the heaviest farmed areas in the world. Californias
Central Valley. I see herbacides being applied with great regularity,
as well as crop rotation being employed. No shortage of food being
grown here, as well as other cash crops such as cotton, which Mr.
Sturgeon grows in some quantity.

I agree with crop rotation, I don't agree with eating poison. You can
think what you like.
Come back after you have either gotten a degree in farming, or have
spent a few days with your local USDA guy.

The same people who have filled our water with agricultural waste?
The same people who never wondered why farmers have one of the highest
rates of immunosuppressant related cancers?
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Solar Flare said:
Yeah, they used to call kids with dyslexia, learning disorders,
Parkinson's disease, Autism and a host of immune system disorders
...retarded.

Now we know more and have progressed from barbarism in some cases.

Funny thing is many of these children "lacking discipline" and not getting
the shit beat out of them turn out to be geniuses but they cannot
understand how to tie their shoes. I guess they should have just been beat
and stifled from expressing themselves when their nervous systems are
reacting to all the toxic chemicals we think are best for them so they
won't get sick on us.

I bet you have had your children injected with mercury compounds on a
scheduled basis too. It's called "thimersol" and it is the USFDA
recognized preservative for all your vaccines you have been killing your
kids with.

Different strokes?

You're making an irrational assumption. Elemental mercury is inert, and not
absorbed by the body. You don't have all the facts, therefore you are able
to use half-truths to further your cause.
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
Elemental mercury is inert, and not absorbed by the body.

Um - when did it stop being absorbed through skin?

But you're very unlikely to find elemental mercury in the wild, as it were.
Some Hg salts (which is what people mean when they talk about mercury in
food) are soluble to some degree.

Mary
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
Um - when did it stop being absorbed through skin?

But you're very unlikely to find elemental mercury in the wild, as it
were.
Some Hg salts (which is what people mean when they talk about mercury in
food) are soluble to some degree.

Mary

"Absorbed by the skin" is not the same as "absorbed by the body" in this
sense. I should have said "assimilated by the body chemically."
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
Stubbsy, read what I say, don't put your own interpretations on it. I
said, using capital letters, that we don't NEED to eat as many eggs as
that.

Want and need are very different.


It is. But we don't NEED all those eggs.

If 300 million North Americans want to have 2 eggs a day and eat a healthy
diet otherwise, there's no significant health risk in that. Those 600
million eggs a day would not be "too much" at all.
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
"Absorbed by the skin" is not the same as "absorbed by the body" in this
sense. I should have said "assimilated by the body chemically."

Thank you, the body can't exist without it's bag of skin though - it's the
body's biggest organ!

My point stands that you simply don't find loose metallic mercury swishing
around so you're very unlikely to test its ingestion.

Mary
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
If 300 million North Americans want to have 2 eggs a day and eat a healthy
diet otherwise, there's no significant health risk in that.

I've never mentioned health risks - although the recommendation in UK is not
to have more than three a week. That's the Best Scientific Advice (like
WMDs)

I'm not one for being told what's good for me though, we're old and I make
(and we eat) mayonnaise with fresh eggs despite the Best Scientifi Advice -
and eat things you Americans would be horrified about because of your
perceived risk of botulism.

Mary
 
G

Gerald L R Stubbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
I see Prince Charles has got up on his hind legs again, pontificating
about the benefits of alternative medicine, braying against the advice
of the medically qualified establishment who pre-empted his little speech
with an announcement of their own.

I forget now when the prince qualified in medicine...
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gerald L R Stubbs said:
I see Prince Charles has got up on his hind legs again, pontificating
about the benefits of alternative medicine, braying against the advice
of the medically qualified establishment who pre-empted his little speech
with an announcement of their own.

I forget now when the prince qualified in medicine...

I wondered how long it would take you to bring this up - LOL!
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
You're making an irrational assumption. Elemental mercury is inert, and not
absorbed by the body. You don't have all the facts, therefore you are able
to use half-truths to further your cause.
You assume that elemental mercury was used; it wasnt; a mercury compound
was. The Europeans picked up on this, and banned distribution because of
their health concerns. The Bush administration pressured the DEA to
permit the transnat pharmaceutical continued distribution in the face of
the epidemiological data connecting it with autism.

When they vaccinate thousands of kids and then see the autism rate is
higher some years later, but dont see that same jump in the rate among
European kids who didnt get exposed to that mercury compound, they end
up in federal court with litigation deciding whether the facts support
what you dismiss. Now: what do you think the court is going to say? for
sure my, or his, opinion dont matter. Neither does yours.

Oh- one more piece of news for which there is no rebuttal: I saw the
video of Chief Justic Roberts introduce his family. His boy Jack is the
right age to have recieved the mercury compound in his DPT vaccine, and
Jack... is autistic.

It seems that Gaia has a sense of humor.
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
I dont have time to clear it all up for you Robert; I use the term
'homeopathic' in an allegorical fashion, and you take it literally,
ignoring my reference to how few molecules of organo-phosphates it takes
to screw up development.

Be that as it may, let this be an example of the kind of opportunity
which awaits young people who are more plugged into the zeitgeist than
you are to profit by being more adaptable and innovative in land use.

To you, plowing is *work*; you always did more than you wanted to. But
consider 'Life in a Midieval Village', taken from the 13th century court
records of an obscure out of the way hamlet... whose court records only
survived because all the armies passing in all the wars and revolutions
happened to miss them.

Anyway; just like a town owns a snowplow, so this place owned a team of
oxen and plowed the commons with it every year. But- rather than have
just one dude spend all his time bored out of his skull doing it, they
let all the dudes in the village have a crack at it, and it becomes a
game and an excuse for a festival. So what if you can plow 10 acres an
hour- they plow 10 acres and it is *fun*.

I bet, were we to ask on this thread, if there were guys who live in
cities now, if they'd like to come out on a weekend for the plowing,
there'd be plenty of dudes who'd jump at the chance. Not even Mexicans
can work for *nothing*. Will illegals wait for a share of the harvest?
So- which system here, agribusiness or organic [as those involved choose
to define it, not as extreme as you define it] has the lower cost of
operations? You havta sell to the mill, ADM, the barge/rail shippers,
etc, they spend a day in the country, and rather than dead heading, go
back to town with a car full of agricultural output.

Ultimately, it dont matter what you think or I think; the Almighty
Dollar will go with the system that delivers what people want at the
lowest cost and highest personal rewards. The time urbanites now spend
on the treadmill in the gym could be spent in the fields doing something
useful, and while they have to pay for the former exercise, they get
paid, albeit without much cash, but in self satisfaction gratifying a
lot of instincts people have for the land and the agrarian system we
have evolved from over the last 10,000 years.

I'm sure some agribusiness will go on as it has for years yet. but the
big money in it has already been made, and consumers have looked at the
same data you refer to, as well as some you'd rather not see, and chosen
in ever greater numbers to buy what they regard as organic. It may be
that they are all wrong, and it is all bullschitt like you say. But so
what? that's where the money has always been.
 
D

Day Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
No, if we reduce inputs now, we will have a reduction in
farm production now. I know some people who reduced their
inputs. They all have found work elsewhere.
There are reports online of farmers using satellite video to identify
areas of stress, and *REDUCE* their inputs to just that part. As the
price of petrochemicals rise, people will look for more ways to reduce
consumption, and more willing to ignore some damage since the cost of
the treatment is now more than the profit from using it.
 
D

Derek Broughton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gerald said:
I see Prince Charles has got up on his hind legs again, pontificating
about the benefits of alternative medicine,

He's been pontificating about the benefits of Leonard Cohen, too, so it's
not all bad :)
braying against the advice
of the medically qualified establishment who pre-empted his little speech
with an announcement of their own.

I forget now when the prince qualified in medicine...

I'm not sure when my doctor qualified, either.
 
D

David G. Bell

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
That's the sort of name that trolls choose to make one
sockpuppet look different from their other ones.

And then more ingenious interpretations...

The trouble is that this guy took an article posted to a single
newsgroup, and then cross-posted his accusations to several. That's
something that I've seen trolls do.

Anyway, from here in uk.business.agriculture the whole thing looks
ridiculous. Mr. Stubbs has been here for years, does real-world business
with several regular readers and posters, and is about as unlike a sock-
puppet as you can get. He isn't a frequent poster, and it can happen
that he doesn't post for a month or two. My recollection is that he was
particularly quiet last winter.

As for Alan Connor, I don't know if he's a troll but, following Ring
Lardner's advice, I reckon that would be the way to bet.
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mary Fisher said:
Thank you, the body can't exist without it's bag of skin though - it's the
body's biggest organ!

My point stands that you simply don't find loose metallic mercury swishing
around so you're very unlikely to test its ingestion.

Mary


We don't wish a lot of things, but that doesn't mean it's bad for you in
every case. We are better served by the facts than by our perceptions.
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Day Brown said:
You assume that elemental mercury was used; it wasnt; a mercury compound
was. The Europeans picked up on this, and banned distribution because of
their health concerns. The Bush administration pressured the DEA to permit
the transnat pharmaceutical continued distribution in the face of the
epidemiological data connecting it with autism.

When they vaccinate thousands of kids and then see the autism rate is
higher some years later, but dont see that same jump in the rate among
European kids who didnt get exposed to that mercury compound, they end up
in federal court with litigation deciding whether the facts support what
you dismiss. Now: what do you think the court is going to say? for sure
my, or his, opinion dont matter. Neither does yours.

Oh- one more piece of news for which there is no rebuttal: I saw the video
of Chief Justic Roberts introduce his family. His boy Jack is the right
age to have recieved the mercury compound in his DPT vaccine, and Jack...
is autistic.

It seems that Gaia has a sense of humor.

You haven't proven the link. You are making an assumption.

Truth is not decided by who's side your're on, or whom you like or dislike.
Pharmaceutical companies have done plenty of bad things, but that doesn't
mean they should be falsely accused without proof. Such behavior may seem
like a means to an end, but it's not.
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mr. Stubbs has been here for years, does real-world business
with several regular readers and posters, and is about as unlike a sock-
puppet as you can get.
As for Alan Connor, I don't know if he's a troll

Turns out he's a netcop wannabe, but missing several important clues.
Ask Google Groups Advanced Search for the exact phrase
http://home.earthlink.net/~alanconnor/contact.html and see where else
he's making a fool of himself.

I especially like: "Body not downloaded" and other "I'm not listening
to you, neener, neener, neener" stuf, followed by pages of rants about
incomprehensible (to him) Usenet headers.
 
J

Jim Webster

Jan 1, 1970
0
"David G. Bell" said:
On Tuesday, in article
Anyway, from here in uk.business.agriculture the whole thing looks
ridiculous. Mr. Stubbs has been here for years, does real-world business
with several regular readers and posters, and is about as unlike a sock-
puppet as you can get. He isn't a frequent poster, and it can happen
that he doesn't post for a month or two. My recollection is that he was
particularly quiet last winter.

yes, having done business with Stubbsy, talked to him and had him cash my
cheques and deliver to me truely excellent smoked salmon, I am willing to go
bail on the fact that he is a real person

Alan Connor on the other hand is just some usenet identity that has cross
posted ill judged accusations across three newsgroups
--

Jim Webster.

Pat Gardiner, now in the sixth year of raving about bent vets and still no
result
 
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