TheAirCar

[Vaughn]

Some things never change. As usual, you "answer" a post without addressing
any of the main points. To put it very simply, when you compress air, it gets
hot. This represents very significant waste energy. But that is not the end of
the problem. When you expand air, it gets cold. This limits the energy that
you can recover unless you add complexity (and size and weight) to the engine to
add heat energy to the air so it can properly expand.

These are (BY FAR) not the only problems with compressed air energy
storage, but they do represent basic physical limitations to the energy
efficiency of the technology.

Now to my other point: As you said yourself: "MDI has been at it for
years and many promised sell dates have been missed."

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.

Vaughn

 

[News]

Some things never change. As usual,
you "answer" a post without addressing
any of the main points. To put it very simply,
when you compress air, it gets
hot. This represents very significant waste
energy. But that is not the end of
the problem.

Read these articles:
http://aircaraccess.com/articl01.htm

All your reservations are put to rest.

 

[Vaughn]

Read these articles:
http://aircaraccess.com/articl01.htm

All your reservations are put to rest.+

Yet again, you have "answered" a post without addressing any of its main
points. In this case, this would be true even if the reference you gave were
NOT complete garbage. Simply posting a link never, in itself, settles an issue.

Vaughn

 

[News]

Yet again, you have "answered" a post without addressing any of its main
points. In this case, this would be true even if the reference you gave were
NOT complete garbage.

on what grounds do you dismiss the articles?

 

[News]

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Quote from that page -
"The ultimate secret of compressed air is that to create a
self-fueling pneumatic power plant, all you have to do is make the
most of the energy contained in expanding air, and/or make the most of
the energy invested in compressing air. Simply put, the self-fueling
air engine is a natural phenomenon of ordinary processes, and not some
aberration of fringe science or a result of exotic devices. This
basic fact is easily proved mathematically using standard engineering
formulas and charts. Gizmos and gadgets are fun, but unnecessary;
they are the stuff of research institutes. The first goal should be
to show an ordinary air engine running an ordinary compressor and
keeping its own tank full in the process. I repeat: the math easily
proves this possible."

Then further down-
"When the Patent Office informed Bob Neal that his patent claim would
be denied because it was a perpetual motion machine, he built a
miniature working model, put it in a suitcase, and flew to Washington
DC.

He plopped the engine down on the patent commissioner's desk, turned
it on, and requested that he be granted his patent on the basis that
the engine worked. His request was granted. When the patent came out
he was visited by German officials who requested that he share his
secret with them. Their request was not granted.

The visiting Nazis kidnapped Bob Neal's daughter, and once again
requested that he share his secret with them. He took his working
models apart and scattered the pieces around the countryside. He
informed the Nazis that he was through with the engine forever, and
requested that they return his daughter, which they did."

Then the deatils of the "NEAL TANK"

WOW!!!!!!! that realy put muy reservation to rest !!! I now have
any reservations at all that air cars are promoted by loons and are
lunacy !!

On what grounds do you dismiss this lunacy? Any Nazi conspiracy tales?

 

[Vaughn]

on what grounds do you dismiss the articles?

You can't really be that dense! On what grounds do you think the article
addresses the two points we are discussing. Please point out the precise
passages and why you think they apply, and why we should believe the author.

This is how it is done, YOU make the point and use the article to support it.
As I said before, links (in and of themselves) settle nothing.

Thanks
Vaughn

 

[News]

You can't really be that dense! On what grounds do you think the article
addresses the two points we are discussing. Please point out the precise
passages and why you think they apply, and why we should believe the author.

This is how it is done, YOU make the point and use the article to support it.
As I said before, links (in and of themselves) settle nothing.

What are your reservations?

 

[Vaughn]

What are your reservations?

Sorry "News". I don't often talk this way, but I just can't think of a
polite way of saying this. Perhaps you are a troll, perhaps you are honestly an
idiot, but I have no further time to waste today.

Bye
Vaughn

 

[News]

Sorry "News". I don't often talk this way, but I just can't think of a
polite way of saying this. Perhaps you are a troll, perhaps you are honestly an
idiot, but I have no further time to waste today.

Do you think those Australian, Korean and Frenchmen are all idiots too, and
telling lots of lies? You know those people all around the world who have
air engines working and one is even in production. Do you think this is this
a commie plot?

 

[Robert Morien]

Do you think those Australian, Korean and Frenchmen are all idiots too, and
telling lots of lies? You know those people all around the world who have
air engines working and one is even in production. Do you think this is this
a commie plot?

commie plots are so passe', what you really want to stawman with is "do
you think this is a muslim plot?" much more effective nowadays.


FYI scammers have no (inter)national boundaries

 

[News]

commie plots are so passe', what you really want to stawman with is "do
you think this is a muslim plot?" much more effective nowadays.

Vaughn still looks under his bed each night to catch the reds.

FYI scammers have no (inter)national boundaries

Well there is a hell of a lot of them about then.

 

[Robert Morien]

Vaughn still looks under his bed each night to catch the reds.

You are admitting that you are a voyeur?

Well there is a hell of a lot of them about then.

and they all tend to end up posting over-unity devices here sooner or
later.

 

[Don Kelly]

I have looked at the cited reference. It is rubbish. What it implies is a
device that produces more energy than what is put into it.
That is - a perpetual motion machine which can do more than run itself.
Forget about conservation of energy. or any known principles of
thermodynamics.
BS to the nth power.

Compressed air engines do work-no doubt- (blow up a balloon and release it)
but efficiency approaching 100% is unlikely, and efficiency over 100% is a
pipe dream due to high quality crack in the pipe.

 

[News]

You are admitting that you are a voyeur?

You have a vivid imagination.

 

[News]

I have looked at the cited reference. It
is rubbish. What it implies is a
device that produces more energy
than what is put into it.

Not so. The words "heat pump" was used. A heat pump moves heat. A
conventional heat pump with COP 5 produces 5kW for every 1 kW it uses.

Heat pumps are now in COP 6 and 7 I believe on air to air. Take a COP 7.
Instead of having an electric motor turning the refrigerant compressor
install a high efficient Stirling motor that produces 1kW. Now for every 1
kW of energy the Stirling uses the fridge compressor will produce 7 kW. The
heat and cooling side for Stirling to keep it running is provided by the
refrigerants condenser and evaporator. Heat from the air is extracted to
make the Stirling move. That should keep running.

 

[Gordon]

I have looked at the cited reference. It
is rubbish. What it implies is a
device that produces more energy
than what is put into it.

Not so. The words "heat pump" was used. A heat pump moves heat. A
conventional heat pump with COP 5 produces 5kW for every 1 kW it uses.

Heat pumps are now in COP 6 and 7 I believe on air to air. Take a COP 7.
Instead of having an electric motor turning the refrigerant compressor
install a high efficient Stirling motor that produces 1kW. Now for every 1
kW of energy the Stirling uses the fridge compressor will produce 7 kW. The
heat and cooling side for Stirling to keep it running is provided by the
refrigerants condenser and evaporator. Heat from the air is extracted to
make the Stirling move. That should keep running.
[snip]

This gives me an excellent idea. Think of those river boats that
are propelled by the large paddle wheel on the stern. Now, if we
were to put a similar paddle wheel on each side of the boat,
these port and starboard paddle wheels could supply the energy
required by the stern paddle wheel. Why, these things could move
up-stream with no fuel requirements at all. ;-]>

 

[News]

I have looked at the cited reference. It
is rubbish. What it implies is a
device that produces more energy
than what is put into it.

Not so. The words "heat pump" was used. A heat pump moves heat. A
conventional heat pump with COP 5 produces 5kW for every 1 kW it uses.

Heat pumps are now in COP 6 and 7 I believe on air to air. Take a COP 7.
Instead of having an electric motor turning the refrigerant compressor
install a high efficient Stirling motor that produces 1kW. Now for every 1
kW of energy the Stirling uses the fridge compressor will produce 7 kW. The
heat and cooling side for Stirling to keep it running is provided by the
refrigerants condenser and evaporator. Heat from the air is extracted to
make the Stirling move. That should keep running.
[snip]

This gives me an excellent idea. Think of those river boats that
are propelled by the large paddle wheel on the stern. Now, if we
were to put a similar paddle wheel on each side of the boat,
these port and starboard paddle wheels could supply the energy
required by the stern paddle wheel. Why, these things could move
up-stream with no fuel requirements at all. ;-]>

What is the COP of these paddle wheels?

 

[Gordon]

I have looked at the cited reference. It
is rubbish. What it implies is a
device that produces more energy
than what is put into it.

Not so. The words "heat pump" was used. A heat pump moves heat. A
conventional heat pump with COP 5 produces 5kW for every 1 kW it uses.

Heat pumps are now in COP 6 and 7 I believe on air to air. Take a COP 7.
Instead of having an electric motor turning the refrigerant compressor
install a high efficient Stirling motor that produces 1kW. Now for every 1
kW of energy the Stirling uses the fridge compressor will produce 7 kW. The
heat and cooling side for Stirling to keep it running is provided by the
refrigerants condenser and evaporator. Heat from the air is extracted to
make the Stirling move. That should keep running.
[snip]

This gives me an excellent idea. Think of those river boats that
are propelled by the large paddle wheel on the stern. Now, if we
were to put a similar paddle wheel on each side of the boat,
these port and starboard paddle wheels could supply the energy
required by the stern paddle wheel. Why, these things could move
up-stream with no fuel requirements at all. ;-]>

What is the COP of these paddle wheels?

Let's go with a COP of 7 here. We'll accomplish this through the
use of high efficiency heat pumps inside the boats.

 

[News]

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message


WOW !!!! you sure are missing a basic education !

The hot end of the stirling would need to run at over 500 deg C
The only pratical way to "extract heat from the air" is to add a good
flow of hydrocarbons and ignite it.
A 1 kw stirling will be dumping 3 kw of low grade heat into the
surroundings.

Sure you can find sites that show stirling units that work off the
heat of your hand, but they have to be very carefully designed and
built just to be able to produce enough power to overcome their own
friction, let alone having anything left over for power generation !

A little more reseach and they are there.

Your level of knowledge on this subject needs a couple of years of
education to bring you up to a point where you can understand how
wroung your current "knowledge" is

So you don't think air engines work then?

 

[Robert Morien]

ANSWER:

A little more reseach and they are there.

QUESTION: What do over-unity scammers always say