What kind of sensor did I see today?

[SecurityNovice]

Hi all.. I am new here.. Looking to learn...I think the more I think I know,
the more I realize I know so little... I came upon a very interesting
install today.. or whats left of it. Place is in an old building undergoing
extensive renovations. There is an old door that resembles something out of
a stable.. cobblestone drieway, etc.. has to be 75 years old. Some old time
alarm guy looks like he protected this door by using what appears to be very
small guage wire in a back and forth criss cross patern on the iside of the
door. I imagine if someone kicked the door in, or maybe kicked at it from
the outside, the line would stretch, or maybe break?? (not sure on this
part) and cause an open or closed condition. Has anyone else seen anything
like this? I love goingi into old gun shops or jewelry shops and seeing how
the old timers did the foil on windows.. Even new systems.. I enjoy
walking into a store and looking around.. wondering why they opted to go a
wall mount motion when a 360 ceiling mount would have been better... then
trying to figure out the logic behind the decision..

 

[Jim Rojas]

It's called finewire...it was used before the invention of motions,
glassbreaks, and shock detectors.

Jim Rojas

 

[SecurityNovice]

Jim,
Would the design call for the fine wire to break, or would it become taught
and pull or tug a sensor? What do you figure the era would be? I am
guessing mid 50's to early 60's? Just a guess. Thanks!

J.

 

[Frank Olson]

It's called finewire...it was used before the invention of motions,
glassbreaks, and shock detectors.

Jim Rojas

Lacing an overhead door is still a reliable means of protecting it. The
alarm is already sounding before the perp has a chance to wiggle through
the hole he made.

 

[SecurityNovice]

Frank,
Does the intruder break the wire, thus breaking continuity, or is the wire
pulling on a mechanical trigger when pulled taught? Is this still a viable
means even with all the photoelectric sensors on the market for above a
recessed ceiling say in a bank or high end jewelry store?

 

[Jim Rojas]

Yes, it is designed to break. I have no idea when it was first used.

Jim Rojas

 

[Bob Worthy]

Did you ever hear of it refered to as "Angel Hair"? It may be that people
have their own names for things. Some years ago, we used it to do some metal
grates that were in an area not condusive to the installation of
electronics. Still working. Simple but effective.

 

[Jim Rojas]

I never heard that word used. We use it for many low cost applications.

I do remember using insulated nails to run a pattern across huge skylights.
Eveything was done to UL Mercantile standards. 1 nail every 4 inches, then
you had to alternate the positive & negative leads to deter bypassing of
loops.

We did AC vents using a thin aluminum tube, which was held in place by
electrical tape or a clamp. It was as thin as auto brake lines.

Jim Rojas

 

[Crash Gordon]

We used to call it lacing wire, and oft-times it also had pull-outs at one
or both ends. We used to use it to lace skylights and put in attics,
crawlspaces, etc.


| Jim,
| Would the design call for the fine wire to break, or would it become
taught
| and pull or tug a sensor? What do you figure the era would be? I am
| guessing mid 50's to early 60's? Just a guess. Thanks!
|
| J.
|
| | > It's called finewire...it was used before the invention of motions,
| > glassbreaks, and shock detectors.
| >
| > Jim Rojas
| >
| >
| > | > > Hi all.. I am new here.. Looking to learn...I think the more I think I
| > > know,
| > > the more I realize I know so little... I came upon a very interesting
| > > install today.. or whats left of it. Place is in an old building
| > > undergoing
| > > extensive renovations. There is an old door that resembles something
| out
| > > of
| > > a stable.. cobblestone drieway, etc.. has to be 75 years old. Some
old
| > > time
| > > alarm guy looks like he protected this door by using what appears to
be
| > > very
| > > small guage wire in a back and forth criss cross patern on the iside
of
| > > the
| > > door. I imagine if someone kicked the door in, or maybe kicked at it
| from
| > > the outside, the line would stretch, or maybe break?? (not sure on
this
| > > part) and cause an open or closed condition. Has anyone else seen
| > > anything
| > > like this? I love goingi into old gun shops or jewelry shops and
seeing
| > > how
| > > the old timers did the foil on windows.. Even new systems.. I enjoy
| > > walking into a store and looking around.. wondering why they opted to
go
| a
| > > wall mount motion when a 360 ceiling mount would have been better...
| then
| > > trying to figure out the logic behind the decision..
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
|

 

[Frank Olson]

Frank,
Does the intruder break the wire, thus breaking continuity, or is the wire
pulling on a mechanical trigger when pulled taught?

The wire is very easy to break (which also makes it a pain to install).

Is this still a viable
means even with all the photoelectric sensors on the market for above a
recessed ceiling say in a bank or high end jewelry store?

I've laced vulnerable walls before but it's mostly used for overhead and
man doors. It's a pain to install (almost as bad as window foil).
Photo beams can be compromised if they're not installed properly
(mounted too high or too low). In addition in a warehouse environment,
it's far too easy to "park" something in front of them. In once
instance, a customer had to call his warehouse guy back to move a pallet
of goods, but all too often people are in a "rush" to leave and will
simply bypass the affected zone (which sort of defeats the purpose of
having it there, don'tcha think)?

 

[Robert L Bass]

Does the intruder break the wire,

thus breaking continuity...

Yes. They used to "lace" doors and vent openings with this wire and that is
exactly how it worked. The problem is the stuff is easy to break and can
require a lot of maintenance. Some installers used to make basswood (no
relation to this writer) screens to protect openings. The basswood dowels
are light but not particularly flexible. The wires were embedded in a slot
that ran the length of each piece of woord. A thief would have to break or
dislodge the screen to get in. Doing so broke the circuit.

These wire lacing schemes are not too common but you'll run into them from
time to time. Some of them are still in use. For certain types of openings
the wire lace is still effective.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Jim]

Frank,
Does the intruder break the wire, thus breaking continuity, or is the wire
pulling on a mechanical trigger when pulled taught? Is this still a viable
means even with all the photoelectric sensors on the market for above a
recessed ceiling say in a bank or high end jewelry store?

Lacing wire goes back to the 1800's When Edwin Holmes was doing alarm
installations. Up until about the mid to late 70's, photoelectric beams
were large devices using automobile bayonet style light bulbs,
projecting visible light through a glass lens. They used a lot of power
and the only way standby capability was available was to use a
motorcycle or automobile battery. However, there weren't any small
sized battery chargers so the battery had to be manually charged on a
periodic basis. Therefore, most people didn't have standby batteries,
so during a power failure the alarm would trip. The Ademco 1200 and
1300 I think were the most popular. It wasn't until the Galium Arsnide
(?) elements were developed that allowed a solid state PE device with
an infrared pulsed signal and a much smaller unit with standby
capability.

Other than the uses that have already been described to you, there was
also a wire called trap wire. This was a thin insulated, flexable,
stranded wire that was used on pull traps. This was called a "live"
trap versus a pull trap that just used a string of some sort, which was
referred to as a "dead" trap. The live trap would trip the alarm if
someone either cut or pulled the trap. The dead trap only worked if the
clip was pulled out. See Ademco number 72 pull trap. I don't think the
UL live traps are made anymore. Sometimes the solid lacing wire was
substituted for the trap wire. Not what it was meant for, but sometimes
you'll find it used for traps too. There was also much wider foil too.
This was used on doors mostly. The wide foil was applied to a piece of
masonite and then the masonite was attached to the inside of the door.

Very occasionally, I'll still use trap wire if I'm doing an old house
with the old fasioned wooden basement windows. Especially if they're
painted closed, nailed shut, etc and the only way in is to break
through the three panes of glass. I just may have the last roll of trap
wire in existance.

The thin wire that was used to construct basswood screens was an
uninsulated bare copper wire. I think I may still have a roll of that
stashed away somewhere too.

 

[SecurityNovice]

This is what I love about this news group.. there is such a wealth of
knowledge available.. Much appreciated! Maybe I am just too anal, but I
find designing a system to be a challenge.. requiring a lot of thought and
most of all, having a good working knowledge of what equipment is available
from vendors and how to apply it correctly. I wish I could work for an old
timer for a year or two and learn the trade.. Honestly, I learn as I go..
and I know at times at the expense of the customer. I wish I could go back
and suggest to a few.. maybe I should have angled that PIR a little further
away from the heat duct... etc.. Thanks a lot guys.. Great info. I took a
black and white picture of the laced door before it went in the dumpster..

 

[Nomen Nescio]

Jim said:

Lacing wire goes back to the 1800's When Edwin Holmes was doing alarm
installations.

One of the earliest applications for lacing wire was the protection of
safes. I believe it was Holmes who pioneered the use of the safe cabinet,
a custom-built wooden cabinet that surrounded the safe. Penetrating the
walls of the cabinet resulted in a broken wire, causing an alarm before the
burglar even reached the safe.

Safe cabinets were still used up through the 1950s and even later,
sometimes with foil linings instead of lacing wire. The cost of
construction made them unattractive, as did the availability of electronic
safe protection systems.

Up until about the mid to late 70's, photoelectric beams
were large devices using automobile bayonet style light bulbs,
projecting visible light through a glass lens.

I think it was Arrowhead that introduced the first solid-state photocells
in the early 1970s. But I do remember the old beams with light bulbs
inside, complete with a spinning metal disk with holes in it to "modulate"
the beam.

- badenov

 

[Robert L Bass]

... I wish I could go back and suggest to a few..

maybe I should have angled that PIR a little
further away from the heat duct... etc...

You can and should do such things, friend. As your business begins to grow
you can keep your older customers and earn lots of referrals by visiting
them from time to time. If you see something that you did earlier that
could have been done a little better, offer to adjust it as a courtesy --
especially anything that has caused a false alarm.

I used to try to visit every client at least once a year regardless if they
were under a service contract (most were not). I'd just stop in to check on
the system and make sure they were using it and weren't experiencing any
problems. If I saw something minor that needed fixing I'd do it free on the
spot. Those courtesy visits paid off in referrals and long-term service
relationships.

As my business grew it eventually became impossible to visit every customer
for free but I tried to stay in touch with them all. We billed annually for
monitoring service so I used to call each customer the day before we'd send
out their invoice. Those calls helped keep our attrition rate extremely
low.

Best of luck.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Group-Moderator]

Yes. They used to "lace" doors and vent openings with this wire and that
is exactly how it worked. The problem is the stuff is easy to break and
can require a lot of maintenance. Some installers used to make basswood
(no relation to this writer) screens to protect openings. The basswood
dowels are light but not particularly flexible. The wires were embedded
in a slot that ran the length of each piece of woord. A thief would have
to break or dislodge the screen to get in. Doing so broke the circuit.

These wire lacing schemes are not too common but you'll run into them from
time to time. Some of them are still in use. For certain types of
openings the wire lace is still effective.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>

woord, woord , woord, woord,woord, woord , woord, woord,woord, woord ,
woord, woord

DID HE MEAN WOOD - LIKE HIS HEAD?

 

[Group-Moderator]

But I do remember the old beams with light bulbs

inside, complete with a spinning metal disk with holes in it to "modulate"
the beam.

- badenov

To forgot to mention the oil bath motors that spun that metal disk

 

[Group-Moderator]

Did you ever hear of it refered to as "Angel Hair"? It may be that people
have their own names for things. Some years ago, we used it to do some
metal
grates that were in an area not condusive to the installation of
electronics. Still working. Simple but effective.

In ADT it was called geon

 

[Signalman1968]

Yes, Ye Ol' Lacing.. Have done several Lacing jobs myself back in the
old days when I was a tech. We still have several dozen foundries back
in Indianapolis that using them. Ever heard of lacing on an addressable
system Works better electrical devices any day!


Signalman