Adams Motor Project

[kumaran]

MP,

Sorry for the late reply.

Could you post a diagram of what you have built? I think there are only a few people here who are able to follow your conversation.

As I have promised earlier, I will post the pictures and diagram when everything are in place so that everybody will follow without any confusion.

Currently I'm facing some mechanical problem in constructing double rotor single stator motor. Lack of mechanical knowledge and most important thing <b>MONEY & TIME</b> which is holding me back right now.

MP, if you really interested on those single stator & rotor motor, I will post it as long as it doesn't confuse anybody. Please revert. TQ.

 

[kumaran]

Hi all,

Please check the my website which is newly created at http://www.aloofhosting.com/kumaran/.

Just check the website and feedback to me if you.

 

[ante1]

I can

 

[kumaran]

Ante & all,

Attached is the circuit I have used to drive Adams Motor Generator.

Test Result

Time ​	Batt A ​	Batt B ​	Batt C ​	Input Amp ​
23.14 ​	12.87 ​	12.41 ​	12.35 ​	0.21 ​
23.19 ​	12.86 ​	12.40 ​	12.35 ​	0.21 ​
23.25 ​	12.86 ​	12.40 ​	12.34 ​	0.21 ​
23.34 ​	12.85 ​	12.39 ​	12.33 ​	0.21 ​
23.39 ​	12.84 ​	12.39 ​	12.33 ​	0.21 ​
23.44 ​	12.84 ​	12.38 ​	12.32 ​	0.21 ​

Test Explaination:
The result statistic taken from the setup as in attached circuit diagram. First I run the motor without generator coil. Let the motor spin to maximum RPM, then slowly increase resistance using potentiometer to get the lowest input amp. By increasing the resistance, the amp goes down until at one point it started to climb up. I'm able to find the sweet spot where the input amp is minimum with acceptable RPM by adjusting potentiometer. Total resistance around 1.6K to 1.7K for trigger coil.

Initial value for minimum amp without connecting generator coil is 0.24. Then connect the generator coil as like in the circuit then amp went down to 0.21 but RPM increase. I tried to connect the generator coil the otherway around, amp increase above 0.24 and RPM decreased sharply.

I assume I have captured and send the back EMF into battery. I need to do a lot more testing using this circuit. I was wondering, is there any way to capture back EMF from trigger coil and drive coil? Or do I need to change electonic component other than in the circuit in order to make the motor more efficient? I'm still new to electronic and don't really know about other electronic component to choose. So your suggestions are much appreciated. So please help me. Thank you.

View attachment 36137

 

[ante1]

Where is the A-meter connected, I don

 

[kumaran]

Ante,

The battery capasity information listed below:
Battery A : 12V 7AH Gel Cell
Battery B : 12V 4AH Lead Asid
Battery C : 12V 4AH Lead Asid

Trigger coil : #26 (smaller)
Drive coil : #23 (Bigger)
Generator coil : #23 (Bigger)

A-meter connected from battery terminal to circuit.

How much current flows though the BY228 with the generator coil connected?

I got to check. Will get back to you.

 

[kumaran]

Hi everybody,

I did some test run with minimal modification on coils and resistor. Read specification below.

Test setup

Circuit
Used the same circuit as previous test run. No changes except trigger resistor and swaping trigger coil with drive coil.

Battery
Battery A : 12V 7AH Gel Cell
Battery B : 12V 4AH Lead Asid
Battery C : 12V 4AH Lead Asid

Coils
Trigger coil : #23 (Bigger)
Drive coil : #26 (Smaller)
Generator coil : #23 (Bigger)

Resistor
2K ohm

A-meter connected from battery terminal to circuit.

Test Result

Time ​	Batt A ​	Batt B ​	Batt C ​	Input Amp ​	Remark ​
22.50 ​	12.70 ​	12.27 ​	12.17 ​	0.19 ​	Motor starts up normally. The amp reduces until 0.19. Motor RPM at maximum.
22.55 ​	12.70 ​	12.27 ​	12.20 ​	0.18 ​	Amp drops but RPM increased. Notice batt C voltage increase to 12.20. Probably motor run at resonance stage right now.
23.00 ​	12.70 ​	12.27 ​	12.20 ​	0.18 ​
23.05 ​	12.69 ​	12.27 ​	12.19 ​	0.18 ​
23.10 ​	12.69 ​	12.26 ​	12.19 ​	0.18 ​
23.15 ​	12.68 ​	12.26 ​	12.19 ​	0.18 ​
23.20 ​	12.68 ​	12.26 ​	12.18 ​	0.18 ​
23.25 ​	12.68 ​	12.26 ​	12.18 ​	0.17 ​	Notice the amp drops to 0.17. RPM drops a bit.
23.30 ​	12.67 ​	12.25 ​	12.17 ​	0.17 ​
23.35 ​	12.67 ​	12.25 ​	12.17 ​	0.17 ​
23.40 ​	12.67 ​	12.25 ​	12.17 ​	0.17 ​
23.45 ​	12.67 ​	12.24 ​	12.16 ​	0.17 ​
23.50 ​	12.66 ​	12.24 ​	12.16 ​	0.17 ​	Last reading taken before go to get some sleep. Let the motor run overnight.
07.55 ​	12.35 ​	11.88 ​	11.69 ​	0.16 ​	Last reading taken before stop the motor. Notice the amp gone down to 0.16 and RPM decreased a little bit.

Test Explaination
I have notice that the motor runs more efficiently compare to previous test run. Low input amp but more RPM.

After much observation and studied the circuit setup, I conclude that this motor is not capturing the back EMF into battery.

The generator coil here is act as "helper" because it is connected in reverse way. The back EMF created from motor spining is used by generator coil to pull the magnets in place. It is free pull because there was no current being supplied for this effect. Indirectly add more torque to the motor. But why the amp goes down ???

I should name generator coil as "helper coil". If I add more number of generator coil, and arranged properly around the motor, I should get more torque and higher RPM. So thicker generator coils with more turns helps to increase motor efficiency. I do not know DC motor out there utilising this back EMF to get more efficiency.

So this motor is not capturing the back EMF into battery. We cannot use generator coils to capture back EMF. The other options are from trigger coil and drive coil. How to modify the circuit in order to capture back EMF from these two coils? Electronic experts...please suggest.

It is possible to get higher efficient (near 100%) from this motor if I add more generator coil and set it up with free push and pull method. In order to make "overunity" I need to find a way to capture back EMF from drive and trigger coil and feed into battery.

 

[kumaran]

I wish I had tachometer to measure the RPM and equipments to test motor torque. So those RPM result is based from observation and by analyzing sound created while motor spins fast or slow (unreliable).

Is there any way to get or make cheaper tachometer.

Will do more testing by adding generator coils.

 

[ante1]

The

 

[kumaran]

Ante & all,

After seeing the circuit setup, and some result statistic, anyone has some suggestions on recapture the back EMF from drive and trigger coil into batteries?

Any suggestion on component to replace to make more efficient?

Looking forward for an answer. Please get back to me...

 

[surajbarkale]

backemf = VCC - (I * DC Resistance of the Coil)

 

[kumaran]

Hi experts,

Need your assistance right now. I have bought some reflective optoswithes for the project. Attached is the datasheet for optoswitch.

Let me tell you what I want to do with these switches. I will place some relective material on top of the rotor. When optoswitch sense this material the switch will turn on then stator push the magnet away and rotor turns.

I need this switch to trigger 2N3055 transistor. Stator coil is connected to 2N3055. Is there any other method to use?

Optoswitch -> 2N3055 -> Stator Coil. :

Do I need to use opamp before transistor? ???

Can anyone draw the schematic diagram for this setup?

QRB1113.pdf

 

[kumaran]

Hi,

Waiting for your answers? Anyone knows what I want?

Please reply to my post. Thank you.

 

[Yevgenip]

The optoswitch is basicly a phototransistor (I will call it opto).
You do not need to put reflective material on the rotors, you can simply put a light source on one side of the rotor, and the opto on the other side, facing the light source. when the rotors will cut the beam, you will have a voltage drop on the opto.
But lets take the example you wanted. when the rotor will touch the beam, it will be reflected to the opto which is next to the light source (remember you need to make sure the beam gets there and that you do have a light source).
when the beam reaches the opto, it will conduct. connect the output of the switch to the base of the transistor, and then use the transistor to start the coil (by connecting the collector to the power source and the emmiter to the coil)

Reply for more explanation, or if I got something wrong please.

 

[Yevgenip]

Forget my first idea about crossing the beams: I see you have the LED and the phototransistor combined. 8)
Perhaps this 2-minute drawn incomplete circuit will help (I didn't have much time). I'll make a better one.

 

[Yevgenip]

-

 

[ante1]

Wait a minute!

The phototransistor can only withstand a maximum current of 20mA. If the 2N3055 have a gain of 20 this means the collector current cannot exceed 400mA or the phototransistor is history!
Just a caution!

 

[kumaran]

Thanks Yevgeni,

I have tested this circuit. In the place of coil I have place electronic beeper.

I noticed that even any material I bring near to optoswitch, the sensor detects it and beeper starts beeping. Nearer the object to opto, louder the noise.

How to prevent this from happening? Do I need to place resistors anywhere in the circuit? I just need the switch to turn on when it detects reflective material. Other than that swith should turn off.

I'm using 5V for IR and 12V for sensor.

Ante, look at the optoswitch datasheet attached. I'm using model QRB1134.

Please suggest

QRB1133.pdf

 

[Yevgenip]

The problem is that the opto sensor uses IR and IR light is reflected almost from any surface.
To control the sesitivity anyway, eather connect a potenitiometer between the opto output and the base of the amplifier transistor (2N3055) or combine the potentiometer with an opamp to gain more accuracy.
different colors also affect reflectivity, but not much.

P.S: Why only addressing (The Respected) Ante and not me? :'(

 

[ante1]

You need an Schmitt trigger circuit to have a more distinct off and on here.
Unless you are satisfied with a poor circuit and poor over all efficiency.