Basic speaker Q

[Steve]

** Got anything useful to say - Steve ?

Actually, no…
I am curious though... Do you have a real job or do you just wait
around watching newsgroups like a hawk all day (and all weekend I
might add) for opportunities to insult complete strangers for no
reason? Of course, there's the times (like this) when you pose a
question to the group just so that you can tear contributions to
shreds and display your "superior intellect."

This could be tolerated, even considered useful rebuttal if it wasn't
for your conceitedness.

For eg;

Unfortunately, that is the popular but wrong answer.

The real answer is simple and not a formula - someone will post it soon.

Mark - you have posted a load of shite. The titles of articles are

NOT an answer to my question.

Fine - then why don't you fucking *** POST *** it here??????????????

Why do you go out of your way to make yourself angry like this? Do
you have any comprehension of how arrogant you appear to be? Have you
checked your blood pressure lately? It's going through the roof RIGHT
NOW isn't it?!!!

Most sane people would read the article and post a link or an edited
version of it for interested people to peruse. Instead, you bait
people with questions, and then slam them for speculating. If it was
you who came up with the answers, then perhaps I could understand that
pride allows for a little gloating. However, this is not the case and
despite what you might think you are not encouraging healthy debate.

Some might call this opportunistic and contemptuous. A shrink might
say you have a superiority complex. I would just say that you're an
asshole.

As with any other Hotmail using fuckwit.

I've copped this from Rod Speed and you, Phil. Not a single other
person I've EVER communicated with via the internet has EVER had a
problem with it. Besides, as yet no one has informed me as to what is
so damn horrible about using my hotmail address.

Angelo Sartore wrote;
Your a funny guy.

If only he was Angelo, but it would seem that he's completely serious!

nifty

 

[Phil Allison]

Actually, no.

** Then go get fucked.

(snip)

Most sane people would read the article and post a link or an edited
version of it for interested people to peruse.

** Posting some irrelevant link and then **pretending** the answer is in
there somewhere is the bullshit artist's method. A prize bullshit artist is
what you are Steve.

Instead, you bait people with questions, and then slam them for speculating. If it was
you who came up with the answers, then perhaps I could understand that
pride allows for a little gloating. However, this is not the case and
despite what you might think you are not encouraging healthy debate.

** I posts HEAPS of answers here and elsewhere.

Shame you are too pig ignorant to see they are correct.

I've copped this from Rod Speed and you, Phil. Not a single other
person I've EVER communicated with via the internet has EVER had a
problem with it.

** All Hotmail wankers like you no doubt.

Besides, as yet no one has informed me as to what is
so damn horrible about using my hotmail address.

** Read it to yourself, moron - it screams of some 15 year old, pimply
faced, jerk off.

90% of all the worst posts on usenet are from Hotmailers with stupid
handles.

Get a real addy - and then use your full name.

Your cred will go up by an order of magnitude.




............. Phil

 

[Brian Goldsmith]

"Steve" wrote>

** Got anything useful to say - Steve ?

Actually, no.

Most sane people would read the article and post a link or an edited
version of it for interested people to peruse. Instead, you bait
people with questions, and then slam them for speculating.

%%% WTF has "speculation" got to do with a technical question ?

Brian Goldsmith.

 

[Angelo Sartore]

Sorry .... Phil can't reply due to the fact he's had to rush off to his
regular Tuesday 15:15 Colonic Irrigation Therapy appointment. If he's not
getting his jollies flaming people, he's off getting someone to ram a tube
up his arse.

 

[Richard Freeman]

popular but wrong hey?

I'd love to see your source, or is this your own theory?


I checked my answer against a few publishments, I'd love to see you
contradict them.

I have published a plot I did of a 10 Inch driver in a cabinet on
alt.binaries.schematics.electronics (dunno how typical it is but a couple of
other speakers I have done give similair results) which shows all sorts of
dips and peaks - certainly although an impedance rise most likely due to
inductance is visible there are all sorts of other peaks and dips - can
anyone gues what frequency the cabinet is tuned to ??

Regards
Richard Freeman

 

[Phil Allison]

"Angelo Sartore"


** What the **** would a "first assistant cameraman" like ** YOU**
know ?????

Go back to your porn sites - wanker.





.............. Phil

 

[Angelo Sartore]

Maybe that's why he's so pissed off with everybody & so fucked up ... He's
got something permanently jammed up his arse!!!
Suck on that ... **** HOOKS.

 

[Phil Allison]

Maybe that's why he's so pissed off with everybody & so fucked up ... He's
got something permanently jammed up his arse!!!
Suck on that ... **** HOOKS.

** Temper, temper little wog camera toter........

You are losing your focus.





................ Phil

 

[Alan]

Hi to all,


everyone knows the nominal impedance of a cone speaker is slightly greater
than the DC resistance of the wire used in the voice coil. An nominal 8 ohm
speaker will have about 6 or 7 ohms of DC resistance for example.

Where does the extra 1 or 2 ohms come from ?

Seems from recent postings on other NGs that most folk have this one
wrong.



.......... Phil

OK Phil, we give up. Since none of us will ever come up with the "correct"
answer, I'm sure we're all waiting with baited breath for your
enlightenment.

So palaver away......

 

[Phil Allison]

"Alan" <[email protected]

OK Phil, we give up.

** Several Bogymen have to be removed from the game first:

Voice coil DC resistance is due to the copper wire alone and so converts all
current flowing to heat (calculated from I squared R ,where R is the DC
value) - NOT sound and NOT movement.

The region around 250Hz to 400 Hz is one where a cone speaker is a resistive
load – i.e. there is little or no phase angle between applied voltage and
the resulting current - but the value of that load is some 20% higher
than the DC resistance.

From the above, the inductive reactance of the voice coil & iron pole piece
is not involved.


** The Real Explanation:

The extra measured resistance indicates that about 20% of the real power in
the 250 to 400 Hz frequency range delivered to the speaker is dissipated in
doing something other than producing heat in the voice coil.

The extra power is mostly converted into heat by the rapid flexing the
suspension material while some is converted to sound. Since most speakers
are not even 1% efficient at converting electricity into sound energy nearly
all the extra power is dissipated in flexing the suspension – i.e. the
spider, surround and cone.

With high powered drivers these parts must become quite hot in operation.

At the cone resonance frequency the load is again resistive - but a much
higher value of around 25 to 35 ohms. The voice coil resistance is still
only 6 or 7 ohms so at this one frequency only about 20 % of the power
supplied from the amp ends up as heat in the copper wire and about 80 % as
heat in the suspension parts - minus a bit for radiated sound, windage
loss etc.

The actual heat in watts lost in the suspension is not much higher than in
the mid frequency case since the higher total impedance reduces the power
drawn from the amplifier by a factor of 4 or 5 times anyway.




............ Phil

 

[Anthony Fremont]

"Alan" <[email protected]



** Several Bogymen have to be removed from the game first:

Voice coil DC resistance is due to the copper wire alone and so converts all
current flowing to heat (calculated from I squared R ,where R is the DC
value) - NOT sound and NOT movement.

The region around 250Hz to 400 Hz is one where a cone speaker is a resistive
load - i.e. there is little or no phase angle between applied voltage and
the resulting current - but the value of that load is some 20% higher
than the DC resistance.

From the above, the inductive reactance of the voice coil & iron pole piece
is not involved.


** The Real Explanation:

The extra measured resistance indicates that about 20% of the real power in
the 250 to 400 Hz frequency range delivered to the speaker is dissipated in
doing something other than producing heat in the voice coil.

Oh that's real specific.

The extra power is mostly converted into heat by the rapid flexing the
suspension material while some is converted to sound. Since most speakers
are not even 1% efficient at converting electricity into sound energy nearly
all the extra power is dissipated in flexing the suspension - i.e. the
spider, surround and cone.

"mostly", "most", "nearly all" are not words one would use to attribute
a characteristic to a single cause.

With high powered drivers these parts must become quite hot in

operation.

"must" is not another fact-based word here.

At the cone resonance frequency the load is again resistive - but a

much

Funny, you indicated to me that the phase error was zero accross the
board. Now you're contradicting yourself by bringing reactance into the
picture.

higher value of around 25 to 35 ohms. The voice coil resistance is still
only 6 or 7 ohms so at this one frequency only about 20 % of the power
supplied from the amp ends up as heat in the copper wire and about 80 % as
heat in the suspension parts - minus a bit for radiated sound, windage
loss etc.

More fudging and non-specific answers.

The actual heat in watts lost in the suspension is not much higher than in
the mid frequency case since the higher total impedance reduces the power
drawn from the amplifier by a factor of 4 or 5 times anyway.

I don't see any corrected formula accounting for the 2 ohms. Where is
your proof? You haven't done anything but speculate and further confuse
the issue. You were bantering that there was one specific cause that
accounted for the extra two ohms. Now what is it?

 

[Phil Allison]

"Anthony Fremont"

power in the 250 to 400 Hz frequency range delivered to the speaker is
dissipated in doing something other than producing heat in the voice coil.

Oh that's real specific.

** I certainly is - you Yank fuckhead.

Conservation of energy is a specific law of nature.

speakers are not even 1% efficient at converting electricity into sound energy
nearly all the extra power is dissipated in flexing the suspension - i.e. the

"mostly", "most", "nearly all" are not words one would use to attribute
a characteristic to a single cause.

** The Yank fuckwit has misunderstood the word "specific".

much

Funny, you indicated to me that the phase error was zero across the
board.

** What a fucking moron - this Yank fuckwit cannot read at all.




** This Yank imbecile must be on LSD - he is having hallucinations.

still> only 6 or 7 ohms so at this one frequency only about 20 % of the power
% as heat in the suspension parts - minus a bit for radiated sound,
windage loss etc.

More fudging and non-specific answers.

** So this Yank fuckhead cannot comprehend parameters that vary in
magnitude from one speaker to another.

than in the mid frequency case since the higher total impedance reduces the
power drawn from the amplifier by a factor of 4 or 5 times anyway.

I don't see any corrected formula accounting for the 2 ohms.

** So this Yank fuckhead did not read the post where I asked for an
explanation - not a formula.

Where is your proof?

** Right under this Yank fuckwits nose.



You were bantering that there was one specific cause that

accounted for the extra two ohms.

** The Yank lies.

Like all stupid SepticTanks.





............. Phil

 

[Anthony Fremont]

significance:

You are one stupid mother fucker, no wonder all of usenet hates your
guts.

HAND, HTH, FOAD

 

[Phil Allison]

"Anthony Fremont"

"Phil Allison"

You are one stupid mother fucker, no wonder all of usenet hates your guts.

** Not nearly as much as they hate millions of smug American egomaniacs
like you.




............. Phil

 

[Angelo Sartore]

Oh, I see, so we are getting personal now ... are we?

 

[Anthony Fremont]

"Anthony Fremont" guts.


** Not nearly as much as they hate millions of smug American egomaniacs
like you.

First off, I wish to offer my apologies to the rest of the group for my
childish outburst. I don't normally conduct myself like that without
allot more prompting, especially when making my first posts to a group.

As for you Phil, your sig line should carry a warning serving to inform
others that you are incapable of conducting a civil discussion.
Granted, your posts do have the added value of offering keen insight to
the workings of the sociopathic mind, but they would probably be better
directed towards a psychological discussion group than an electronics
one.

I am also extremely impressed by your clever ability to efficiently
argue your case. You don't waste time presenting evidence or even
offering a counter-argument, instead you hurriedly dismiss the opposing
viewpoint by vomiting vulgar invectives with no holds barred. Then,
using reasoning powers that breathe new meaning into the term "non
sequitur", you present a rushed, disjointed, and generally
incomprehensible "explanation". Yes Phil, you've got my vote. You are
most certainly the king of fallacious reasoning.

 

[Steve]

Read it to yourself, moron - it screams of some 15 year old,
pimply

faced, jerk off.

How you have surmised that from a simple email address is beyond me...
but it couldn't be further from the truth. Just another shining
example of your unfounded prejudice towards complete strangers.

.... and STILL no one can tell me what is so bad about using my hotmail
address.

Get a real addy - and then use your full name.

Your cred will go up by an order of magnitude.

So if I make up a "real" name and have an email address that doesn't
contain the word "hotmail" then people will respect me?!?! Thank the
Lord, I've found salvation!!!!

How does "Martin O'Brian" sound? Too close to "Bryant"? Or "Nigel
West", "Bob Carter", "Robert Moffat", "Delbert McKlintoch"...

Perhaps I could be daring and call myself "Katie Appleby" or "Tracey
Fletcher"... any of these sounding credible to you Phil?

Now, what's a good domain... bigpong, iinet, dodo... NO, WAIT, I've
got it - optusnet!! That has GOT to be credible doesn't it Phil?!

Here's a tip, type my hotmail address into google and hit "I'm feeling
lucky." It's an astonishingly simple task to find out my "real" name
if that's what gets your juices flowing...

 

[Angelo Sartore]

Nice work!

First off, I wish to offer my apologies to the rest of the group for my
childish outburst. I don't normally conduct myself like that without
allot more prompting, especially when making my first posts to a group.

As for you Phil, your sig line should carry a warning serving to inform
others that you are incapable of conducting a civil discussion.
Granted, your posts do have the added value of offering keen insight to
the workings of the sociopathic mind, but they would probably be better
directed towards a psychological discussion group than an electronics
one.

I am also extremely impressed by your clever ability to efficiently
argue your case. You don't waste time presenting evidence or even
offering a counter-argument, instead you hurriedly dismiss the opposing
viewpoint by vomiting vulgar invectives with no holds barred. Then,
using reasoning powers that breathe new meaning into the term "non
sequitur", you present a rushed, disjointed, and generally
incomprehensible "explanation". Yes Phil, you've got my vote. You are
most certainly the king of fallacious reasoning.

 

[Rod Speed]

Voice coil DC resistance is due to the copper wire alone

Must be one of those rocket scientist unemployable fuckwits.

and so converts all current flowing to heat
(calculated from I squared R ,where R is the DC value)

Completely and utterely irrelevant to what was being discussed.

- NOT sound and NOT movement.

Wrong again. You'll find the voice coil does move even with DC.

The region around 250Hz to 400 Hz is one
where a cone speaker is a resistive load

Wrong. Even tho the resistive component completely dominates.

– i.e. there is little or no phase angle between
applied voltage and the resulting current

More completely irrelevant waffle.

- but the value of that load is some
20% higher than the DC resistance.

From the above, the inductive reactance of
the voice coil & iron pole piece is not involved.

Which is what
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/speaker_impedance.html
says, even if you're so stupid you cant manage to read and comprehend it.

** The Real Explanation:

Fraid not.

The extra measured resistance indicates that about 20% of the real
power in the 250 to 400 Hz frequency range delivered to the speaker is
dissipated in doing something other than producing heat in the voice coil.

Utterly mangled. And have fun explaining the massive variation in
impedance seen with frequency, particularly the peaks and troughs.

The extra power is mostly converted into heat by the rapid flexing
the suspension material while some is converted to sound. Since
most speakers are not even 1% efficient at converting electricity
into sound energy nearly all the extra power is dissipated in
flexing the suspension – i.e. the spider, surround and cone.

Utterly mangled. And have fun explaining the massive variation in
impedance seen with frequency, particularly the peaks and troughs.

With high powered drivers these parts must become quite hot in operation.

Pity they dont.

At the cone resonance frequency the load is again resistive
Wrong.

- but a much higher value of around 25 to 35 ohms.

Pity you cant explain that either, or why there is
a resonance at all with that 'explanation' above.

The voice coil resistance is still only 6 or 7 ohms so at this one
frequency only about 20 % of the power supplied from the amp
ends up as heat in the copper wire and about 80 % as heat in the
suspension parts - minus a bit for radiated sound, windage loss etc.

Have fun explaining the massive variation in mpedance
seen with frequency, particularly the peaks and troughs.

The actual heat in watts lost in the suspension is not much higher than
in the mid frequency case since the higher total impedance reduces the
power drawn from the amplifier by a factor of 4 or 5 times anyway.

Utterly mangled all over again.

 

[Phil Allison]

pimply faced, jerk off.

How you have surmised that from a simple email address is beyond me...

** Intelligent though is way beyond a fool like you.

but it couldn't be further from the truth.

** Jeez, this wanker cannot mentally separate his email addy from
himself.

... and STILL no one can tell me what is so bad about using my hotmail
address.

** Explain why you sniped and IGNORED my reason ????

So if I make up a "real" name and have an email address that doesn't
contain the word "hotmail" then people will respect me?!?!

** Nothing of the sort was posted - you imbecile.

READ what WAS posted or go **** your "nifty dog".




............... Phil