Breadboarding

[Eeyore]

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

Graham

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND

 

[Nico Coesel]

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

Any suggestions ?

In these kind of situations I create a small PCB to test the circuit.

 

[neon]

For 65mhz any breadwork or PCB will be fine but the acid test is the final inplementation. Will it work as desired?

 

[Eeyore]

surfboards?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=9161CA-ND

Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for interconnections
etc.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Now, only a little while back I said I never breadboard, I go straight
to pcb.

This one's different though. The client wants to do the layout as part
of a larger scheme and I want to be double sure of stability in practice
as opposed to simulation because if he messes up, I can show mine
working fine.

As I'll be using a 65MHz ? op-amp I don't trust perfboard / Veroboard
for this.

I recall some self adhesive 'pre-etched shapes' that you could stick on
a ground plane. The name Wainwright comes to mind but google isn't
helping much.

I was right about wainwright but was getting too many hits to filter. Then I
recalled (from 28 years ago !) that the product was called "mini mounts" and
google this time got it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ena&rls=en&hs=C5r&q="mini-mount"+wainwright&btnG=Search

I don't recall it being German and I can't find a site selling any. I'm sure
there was a company in Bristol UK that sold them but maybe they've fallen
out of favour ? They were very popular for RF work in particular.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

If you're in a hurry, build it live-bug on a piece of copperclad.

Things like this can help:

http://www.beldynsys.com/singledual.htm

But it's usually easier to do a quick-turn PCB.

Can't disagree there but this is so few components !

If the timescale allows, we might be able to tack it on to another couple of
boards we'll be doing.

I did recall the product name in the end and google found it. Interesting but
brief comments from Bob Pease at the bottom of this link from there.
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=6105

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Things like this can help:

http://www.beldynsys.com/singledual.htm

Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !

Graham

 

[DJ Delorie]

Similar kind of thing. Except I only need a handful !

Next time someone tells me I'm wasting my time making my own boards,
I'm going to point them at this thread

Last time this came up, it got me thinking. I can etch on 8 mil FR4,
and double-stick tape that to an unetched copper clad board, to get
what I think you're asking for. But, not being an RF expert, I have
no idea how well it would "work". I think it would be worth the
effort to find out if this is a viable RF prototyping platform, just
to satisfy my curiosity, if you can send me a PDF of a SS layout (no
vias . Contact me off-list if you're interested.

DJ

 

[Rich Grise]

Not terribly convenient for the UK sadly. That's the sort of thing but you
could get individual IC package 'stick ons' and strips for
interconnections etc.

How about pad-per-hole perfboard (preferably with ground plane on the
other side) and either fine wire or copper tape?

Have Fun!
Rich

 

[Eeyore]

Next time someone tells me I'm wasting my time making my own boards,
I'm going to point them at this thread

Last time this came up, it got me thinking. I can etch on 8 mil FR4,
and double-stick tape that to an unetched copper clad board, to get
what I think you're asking for. But, not being an RF expert, I have
no idea how well it would "work". I think it would be worth the
effort to find out if this is a viable RF prototyping platform, just
to satisfy my curiosity, if you can send me a PDF of a SS layout (no
vias . Contact me off-list if you're interested.

I only wish I could send you a Wainwright 'Mini-Mount' catalogue. I bet I
have one somewhere here in the archive.

It's just such a breeze to use. It could be a useful side income for
anyone.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

How about pad-per-hole perfboard (preferably with ground plane on the
other side) and either fine wire or copper tape?

Never seen one with ground plane on one side.

Graham

 

[Rich Webb]

I was right about wainwright but was getting too many hits to filter. Then I
recalled (from 28 years ago !) that the product was called "mini mounts" and
google this time got it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ena&rls=en&hs=C5r&q="mini-mount"+wainwright&btnG=Search

I don't recall it being German and I can't find a site selling any. I'm sure
there was a company in Bristol UK that sold them but maybe they've fallen
out of favour ? They were very popular for RF work in particular.

Also look at http://www.schmartboard.com/. Reasonable prices and their
newer boards use what they call "EZ technology" -- basically the
solder pads are recessed below the board surface. Carried by some
distributers over on this side of the pond; not sure about y'all tho.

 

[[email protected]]

Never seen one with ground plane on one side.

Farnell used to stock a prototyping board with a "collander ground
plane" on one side.

C.I.F. stills seems to make something like this

http://www.cif.fr/new/produits_aff.php3?cat=1&scat=1&sscat=3&p=169

as the AL 201 at the bottom of the list.

Farenell stocks it under order code 1201481. I'm fairly sure that this
isn't the part I used but it does seem to be the same kind of
prototyping board.

 

[Eeyore]

Make a layout on Eagle or your fav' tool, and get it fabricated at a
fast-turn PCB house. If you're charging a reasonable rate you'll spend
less than two hours (and probably one) for a small hand full of 2-sided
boards, and you'll save more time than that by not having to fiddle with
a new technology or agonize over whether those stick down strips (or
whatever) are really doing their job.

And you'll have a much closer model to the real thing.

If you were in the US I'd send you to PCB Express
(http://www.pcbexpress.com/).

How do they compare to expresspcb, whom I have used ?

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

I only wish I could send you a Wainwright 'Mini-Mount' catalogue. I bet I
have one somewhere here in the archive.

It's just such a breeze to use. It could be a useful side income for
anyone.

Graham

" I only wish I could send you a Wainwright 'Mini-Mount' catalogue. I
bet I
have one somewhere here in the archive."

Do these things still exist? I've heard about them from several
different souces now,

http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=6105

You can get double sided pcb's cheap, and I've always wanted surface
mount "jumpers" for prototyping.
George

 

[Eeyore]

So, who is responsible for seing to it that the production version of
this gizmo will actually work?

The ultimate client. They just want a circuit.

Graham

 

[DJ Delorie]

Perhaps you could just buy thin copper tape and cut out the shapes you
need?

 

[DJ Delorie]

You can get down to about 100 ps, 3 GHz or so, with Xacto knives and
copperclad. Kapton tape can be really helpful... stick down a small
square, notch out some ground windows, and solder the parts on top.

I think I've seen that before. Still curious how well thin FR4 over a
solid plane works, though. Plus, I like etching more than xacto-ing.
And etching is easier for really small details, too.

 

[Eeyore]

Farnell used to stock a prototyping board with a "collander ground
plane" on one side.

C.I.F. stills seems to make something like this

http://www.cif.fr/new/produits_aff.php3?cat=1&scat=1&sscat=3&p=169

as the AL 201 at the bottom of the list.

Farenell stocks it under order code 1201481. I'm fairly sure that this
isn't the part I used but it does seem to be the same kind of
prototyping board.

So near but so far !

If only I could get my hands on those Mini-Mounts.

Graham