discussion on homemade weather balloon experiments. - telemetry, communications and photography

[Heywood Jablome]

Hi all,

I see there has been some interest in amateur weather balloon experiments in
the states, especially ham radio guys that launch repeaters to the
stratosphere which enter the so called "near space" area of around 100 000
feet altitude. Is there anyone in Australia that is doing something similar?
This looks like a very interesting hobby.

http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/balloon/

http://www.jpaerospace.com/pongsat/away25.html

There was a doco on SBS a week ago which mentioned that Japan was to build
an airship that would hover over japan and be a cheaper substitute compared
to a communications satellite. Why on earth has someone not thought of that
before. Sounds like a simple enough solution.

 

[Ed [:-\)>]

the jetstream it quite fast

: I see there has been some interest in amateur weather balloon
experiments in
: the states, especially ham radio guys that launch repeaters to the
: stratosphere which enter the so called "near space" area of around 100
000
: feet altitude. Is there anyone in Australia that is doing something
similar?
: This looks like a very interesting hobby.

: There was a doco on SBS a week ago which mentioned that Japan was to
build
: an airship that would hover over japan and be a cheaper substitute
compared
: to a communications satellite. Why on earth has someone not thought of
that
: before. Sounds like a simple enough solution.
:
:
:

 

[Rod Out back]

Hi all,

I see there has been some interest in amateur weather balloon experiments in
the states, especially ham radio guys that launch repeaters to the
stratosphere which enter the so called "near space" area of around 100 000
feet altitude. Is there anyone in Australia that is doing something similar?
This looks like a very interesting hobby.

http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/balloon/

http://www.jpaerospace.com/pongsat/away25.html

There was a doco on SBS a week ago which mentioned that Japan was to build
an airship that would hover over japan and be a cheaper substitute compared
to a communications satellite. Why on earth has someone not thought of that
before. Sounds like a simple enough solution.

This idea was tossed around in the 70's, 80's, and probably before that!
Nothing new, but obviously there are problems with actually getting it to
work.

Go through some old copies of Popular Science from early 80's and you should
see details of the same concept.

I'd hate to think of a few million dollars of comms equipment being subject
to severe weather. There seems to be a lot less risk once you get a
satellite into space.

Cheers,

Rod.......Out Back

 

[Joerg]

Hello Rod Out back,

This idea was tossed around in the 70's, 80's, and probably before that!
Nothing new, but obviously there are problems with actually getting it to
work.

Go through some old copies of Popular Science from early 80's and you should
see details of the same concept.

I'd hate to think of a few million dollars of comms equipment being subject
to severe weather. There seems to be a lot less risk once you get a
satellite into space.

It depends on how it's done, who does it and, most of all, how much
funding is available for such a project. At the end it all boils down to
operating costs and these will most certainly include the insurance
premium paid to cover against the unthinkable.

Sure, weather, jet stream and other problems will be limiting factors.
But then again the geostationary orbit positions already look like a
parking lot at the shopping mall on December 24. Tough to secure a spot
up there.

Regards, Joerg

 

[ic]

Nuts & Volts have been running a series on near space experimentation using
balloons. I too am curious if there are any amateurs doing it in Australia,
and what regulatory hurdles there are here.

Ian.

 

[Heywood Jablome]

Nuts & Volts have been running a series on near space experimentation using
balloons. I too am curious if there are any amateurs doing it in Australia,
and what regulatory hurdles there are here.

Ian.

In the states, there appears to be a 6 pound limit on the payload. That does
not include the balloon itself. If the payload is under this limit, the
launch does not requre any special clearance, though it seems all clubs that
launch any balloon do still find it prudent to notify their local air
authority just before launch.

6 pounds would be more than enough for the average hobbyist experimenter.
That would cater for a still camera, GPS tracker and some other bits and
bobs such as humidity/temp/barometer data loggers. I can't find any info on
what rules apply to aussie air. In any case, I reckon it would be extremely
improbable for a plane to hit such a small mass.

 

[John Crighton]

In the states, there appears to be a 6 pound limit on the payload. That does
not include the balloon itself. If the payload is under this limit, the
launch does not requre any special clearance, though it seems all clubs that
launch any balloon do still find it prudent to notify their local air
authority just before launch.

6 pounds would be more than enough for the average hobbyist experimenter.
That would cater for a still camera, GPS tracker and some other bits and
bobs such as humidity/temp/barometer data loggers. I can't find any info on
what rules apply to aussie air. In any case, I reckon it would be extremely
improbable for a plane to hit such a small mass.

While I was reading that last sentence above, my mind
wondered off and I was visualising the opening scenes
of a Hollywood movie.

Departure lounge scene.
Loving husband saying goodbye to wife and daughter boarding
jet liner Obnoxious passenger loudly takes his seat on board.

Paddock Scene (somewhere in Canada).
The lads gas up the balloon, crack jokes and discuss
wind direction. Snow capped mountains in the distance.

Cockpit scene.
Pilots discussing weather and possible de-tours, interrupted
by beautiful blonde air hostess serving coffee and...
Jaunty voice on radio announces, "Amair 639 Heavy, you
are clear for take-off on runway blah blah blah ........"

You know the rest

 

[[email protected]]

There was a doco on SBS a week ago which mentioned that Japan was to build
an airship that would hover over japan and be a cheaper substitute compared
to a communications satellite. Why on earth has someone not thought of that
before. Sounds like a simple enough solution.

In the DotBomb days I recall seeing information on a company that were
planning to fly (winged) aircraft around in circles all day in order to
provide the city below with wireless access. I don't know if they ever
got off the ground. *pun intended*

 

[[email protected]]

In the DotBomb days I recall seeing information on a company that were
planning to fly (winged) aircraft around in circles all day in order to
provide the city below with wireless access. I don't know if they ever
got off the ground. *pun intended*

Found it - the article from 1997:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-203187.html?legacy=cnet

"In a plan befitting Ripley's Believe It or Not, a St. Louis-based
start-up is laying the groundwork to offer wireless high-speed Internet
access using airplanes circling target markets at high altitudes."


This is the company doing it:

http://www.angelcorp.com/

Looks like the site wasn't updated past the year 2000. I guess they
exploded like so many others, with their ghost site living on...

 

[Harvey]

Nuts & Volts have been running a series on near space experimentation using
balloons. I too am curious if there are any amateurs doing it in Australia,
and what regulatory hurdles there are here.

CASR Part 101 Unmanned aircraft and rocket operations
".........rules for the use of unmanned moored balloons and kites,
unmanned free balloons, unmanned rockets, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
(UAVs), model aircraft, and pyrotechnic displays".-

PDF document here:
http://www.casa.gov.au/prod/avreg/rules/1998casr/101/index.htm

Briefly re: payloads

Free balloons -
Small: 50 grams of payload max
Light: 2 metres in diameter max: 4 kilograms of payload max.
Medium: larger than 2 metres in diameter: payload more than 4, less than
6 kilograms.
Heavy balloon: capable of carrying more than 6 kilograms of payload.


......Old article -
BACAR experiments - Balloon Carrying Amateur Radio
The South Australian VHF Group is expected to be involved with high
altitude balloons with amateur radio payloads this year. The flights
will also involve the Australian Space Research Institue (ASRI) and a
computer users group, the Australian Public Access Network Australia
(South Australia). Initial reports suggest that at peak altitude the
balloons should provide line-of-sight radio coverage - depending on wind
drift, in both South Australia and Victoria. It is proposed that the
balloon flights trial the possibility of putting an amateur satellite at
an altitude of at least 100,000 feet (30km).

Australian Space Research Institute
ASRI High Altitude Balloon Program -
http://www.asri.org.au/ASRI/research/hab/BalloonProgramConcept.htm

 

[Heywood Jablome]

http://www.casa.gov.au/prod/avreg/rules/1998casr/101/index.htm

Briefly re: payloads

Free balloons -
Small: 50 grams of payload max
Light: 2 metres in diameter max: 4 kilograms of payload max.
Medium: larger than 2 metres in diameter: payload more than 4, less than
6 kilograms.
Heavy balloon: capable of carrying more than 6 kilograms of payload.

I thought you made a mistake about the classifications but after reading the
document, I see you didnt. The regulations seem to be silent (purposefully?)
on balloons bigger than 2m in diameter and with a payload between 0 and 4
kg. This type of balloon would not fit into any of the categories above.
Perhaps we have a loophole. In any case, it would be best to notify the air
traffic control anyway.