Dryer not spinning

[chopnhack]

So my job tomorrow is to fix a dryer that is not spinning. That is all I know from the complaint. I will first start by checking to see if the breaker has been thrown. If breaker good and outlet has voltage across it, I will check resistance of the door switch to make sure it is closed when depressed, then resistance of the drive motor itself. If it is not direct drive, I will check the belt too - but what should I expect to see from an intact motor?
I should have continuity between BU 28 and BK 33 ( i assume that this is the field winding) What off the top three connections?

From there I will continue to make sure the start switch is good, thermal fuse I assume is closed until broken open by excessive heat, so there should be continuity across it as well, no?

The electronic control is a complete black box, if there is not something obviously wrong with the components, I will have to assume that it has failed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[davenn]

not my field of expertise

maybe it needs a new hamster



sorry couldn't resist ... I'm so bad

Dave

 

[Bluejets]

First off, are you sure this is the schematic for your machine.?
I assume you copied it from the back cover but it is 2 phase and neutral so just wondering if this is your supply.
BU28 and BK33 I would say should be an internal motor switch that closes when the motor is up to speed and only then do you get a feed to the heater bank.
Closing the door switch should give you a Neutral feed to YL35/YL34 and from the push-to-start to RD31.
In Aus, they do not allow neutral switching but anyhow...................
As far as motor circuit goes, it is a bit difficult to say as wiring disappears into your electronic "black box" but I would hazard a guess at the winding being RD30 to GY51.
Usually they are a low torque motor (shaded pole) so only the one winding coming out.(as opposed to split-phase) so reading should be around 20 to 40 ohms.
Thermal fuse should read zero ohms (or near)
Should be the same for the thermostats at room temp. however they should not stop the motor from running.
Timers are usually a good bet for failure as they drive high heater currents through tiny contacts and frazzle hell out of everything.
Some timers have removable outer casings so you can get a squizz inside to look for obvious failures.
Best guess I'm afraid...hope it helps.

 

[chopnhack]

First off, are you sure this is the schematic for your machine.?
I assume you copied it from the back cover but it is 2 phase and neutral so just wondering if this is your supply.
BU28 and BK33 I would say should be an internal motor switch that closes when the motor is up to speed and only then do you get a feed to the heater bank.
Closing the door switch should give you a Neutral feed to YL35/YL34 and from the push-to-start to RD31.
In Aus, they do not allow neutral switching but anyhow...................
As far as motor circuit goes, it is a bit difficult to say as wiring disappears into your electronic "black box" but I would hazard a guess at the winding being RD30 to GY51.
Usually they are a low torque motor (shaded pole) so only the one winding coming out.(as opposed to split-phase) so reading should be around 20 to 40 ohms.
Thermal fuse should read zero ohms (or near)
Should be the same for the thermostats at room temp. however they should not stop the motor from running.
Timers are usually a good bet for failure as they drive high heater currents through tiny contacts and frazzle hell out of everything.
Some timers have removable outer casings so you can get a squizz inside to look for obvious failures.
Best guess I'm afraid...hope it helps.

Thanks Blue - the schematic is what came up for the model Maytag LSE7804ACE - its an older model marked as 3 wire, so its actually 240v (split phase in the states) with ground acting as neutral for the 120v circuitry onboard if there is any - the electronic controller has no LED or electronic displays, its just the brains behind the pushbuttons, but there are no digital buttons or controllers, knobs and switches are mechanical from what I remember last I saw the unit. The US converted over to 4 wire some years back requiring neutral to be distinct and separate from EGC. On old equipment and in older homes that lack the 4 wire in the feed, neutral is used to bond the equipment to ground.

Thanks for the tips on troubleshooting, I will refer to them tomorrow. I hope I can figure it out, those models are stacked, washer and dryers that fit in small closets and are hard to replace and come by, not mention how $$$$ they are

 

[shrtrnd]

Here's my input from years of reparing family members dryers:
1), Check the belt if it has one
2) Check the rollers the dryer drum rides on. If one is seized or breaks, the drum won't turn.
3) Check the safety/engage switch for the dryer door when it closes. If the pin on the door is broken-off (that closes the switch inside the dryer chassis to complete the circuit saying the door is closed and spinning can begin),
or the switch itself inside the dryer chassis is broken; the circuit will not be completed that tells the dryer motor to begin turning.
Good luck. Hopefully this is an easy fix and not a bad motor.
One more thing, the motor will be full of lint, I'd blow it out as long as you're in there working on it.

 

[chopnhack]

Indeed! It was simply the belt I was happy when I heard the machine come to life when I pressed the button. Hope to have the part soon. Thanks all!

 

[chopnhack]

After contorting and installing the belt, reassembling everything - I said to myself let me plug this in before I completely button it up to make sure the drum spins and tracks true - I was rewarded with a small shower of sparks

Turns out a wire had pulled free of its tab and shorted out against something. I can only pray that it was a hot lead and grounded itself on the case somewhere and not against one of the wire/terminals that feeds a diode or the controller... Of course to gain access to the machine I believed incorrectly that I would have to move the washer out first so I had to operate the shut off valve which now leaks This is how a $12 belt becomes a $32 valve and a 1/2 day project, cheers!

 

[chopnhack]

The dryer is fixed and runs well. The washer valve has been replaced and seals. New hoses - check.



Why doesn't the bloody washer work now!!!

The lead that had sparked is marked White 9 which I highlighted in yellow. My initial thought was that it had mains on it and it grounded against something. I am wondering about that now... My guess is that perhaps the overload protector opened? What is the consensus?

 

[Bluejets]

The usual sequence of events is,(wash) first close the lid, then operate the timer (most pull out) ....water(hot or cold depending on selector) starts to run into the machine until it reaches the selected level.......
then motor runs up to speed and centrifigal switch shuts off the start winding.
So which part of the above is not working.??

Also which particular connection came off where when you had your shower of sparks?

 

[chopnhack]

The usual sequence of events is,(wash) first close the lid, then operate the timer (most pull out) ....water(hot or cold depending on selector) starts to run into the machine until it reaches the selected level.......
then motor runs up to speed and centrifigal switch shuts off the start winding.
So which part of the above is not working.??

Also which particular connection came off where when you had your shower of sparks?

Thanks Blue, the entire wash sequence does not begin at all. I even threw a towel inside in case it had a pressure sensor for load weight. Maybe the machine won't start unless it has a certain weight of clothes inside?

To answer more clearly, I tried rotating the knob to the various settings and then pulling out. I even pressed the start button in case it was linked to both the washer and dryer. No luck.

The wire marked 9 White, which is above the box marked connector in the schematic and goes to the series of switches marked by the circled 6,7.

 

[Bluejets]

So I take it that wire 9 came off connection adjacent to switches 6 and 7 and then shorted to the frame?
Appears the only way to find where the supply has failed is to start where L1 comes in to the line switch and work your way through.
You really need to check for power at this point but if you are not qualified to do this then it can be quite a dangerous operation as you've already shown with the wire shorting to the frame.
With nothing at all happening, I'm thinking maybe you've blown a fuse or circuit breaker somewhere as you said you were running two phase 120v plus neutral.
Overload is only motor protection and I doubt very much it would have popped as they are largely thermal devices with auto-reset and it would not stop the water valves from operating anyhow.
Pressure switch is for water level.

 

[chopnhack]

So I take it that wire 9 came off connection adjacent to switches 6 and 7 and then shorted to the frame?
Appears the only way to find where the supply has failed is to start where L1 comes in to the line switch and work your way through.

Agreed, however the loose wire came off of a switch block (timer switch) that had several other contact points. I now suspect that it grounded itself on one of those other terminals.

With nothing at all happening, I'm thinking maybe you've blown a fuse or circuit breaker somewhere as you said you were running two phase 120v plus neutral.
Overload is only motor protection and I doubt very much it would have popped as they are largely thermal devices with auto-reset and it would not stop the water valves from operating anyhow.
Pressure switch is for water level.

I checked the circuit breaker at the panel which was ok. I cycled it to ensure it was seated and on. As for the water not coming on that would indicate a flaw with the solenoids potentially, no? There is a fuse wired in below the schematic. If I am reading the wiring diagram correctly, following neutral which goes through the Level Selector and then the Pressure Switch, through the fuse to provide the return path for power through the solenoids. If the solenoids are not working I am thinking that either the fuse opened or the timer itself has gone bad.

I need to return there on Wednesday with a meter to check it out.

 

[shrtrnd]

It's me again with my extensive experience with fixing everybody else's machines.
If your power lead came off the timer/power switch and then contacted other tabs on that multi-terminal timer switch assembly, you've probably welded something inside that timer switch assembly.
*astards at the applicance stores typically sell those switches for $100.
I'd do what I could to try to determine if that switch assy is bad, then decide if it's bad, what your cheapest option is for getting a replacement.
One one of them, considering the age of the machine, I just junked it and bought a used replacemen machine that's been running for my brother for 7 years now.
A repair shop might sell you a used replacement switch assy for a lot less than the appliance repair places would.
Good luck again. I know nobody wants to be without their washer/dryer for an extended length of time.

 

[JudoJack]

Check the bearing too. If it is loose or broken, it will throw the tub off balance and the motor will not engage. I fixed a GE Profile with this problem.

 

[Bluejets]

I still think you need to verify power into the L1 to begin with.
Your feed via the lid switch and temp switch to the valves does return via the "fuse" although not sure what type of fuse it is (thermal or overcurrent)
I believe the "check' switch would be the out of balance detector and it is not part of the fill circuit.
As I said previously, neutral switching in Aus is not allowed, not that it changes anything from a circuit perspective but it can give some perplexing results i.e. feedback at times.
Check the for incoming power.....

 

[chopnhack]

Thanks guys. I will be armed with meter, schematic and maybe some wire to jumper the solenoids. I think the timer is bad, it makes sense, but to be sure I will start at the beginning and trace out - I don't want to swap out a part for no cause. @shrtrnd - the first few listings I have found for that timer are ~$175

​

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

If the timer is the problem, I would definitely have a go at trying to fix it. It should be possible to open it up and see where the problem is. I expect!

 

[chopnhack]

If the timer is the problem, I would definitely have a go at trying to fix it. It should be possible to open it up and see where the problem is. I expect!

I am not sure if the timer can be opened, it looks like its made out of molded bakelite type material. I found this post and it had me thinking: would it have killed the company to put in a few more inches of wire so that you had a serviceable length!

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

I would be really, really surprised if it wasn't possible to get into it. Even if it has been rivetted together, you should be able to drill out the rivets.

 

[chopnhack]

I would be really, really surprised if it wasn't possible to get into it. Even if it has been rivetted together, you should be able to drill out the rivets.

True, would be interesting to see what went wrong inside. I am not sure I would be able to fix it, but its worth a shot!