Electric cars

[Spurious Response]

Hum, yes. I'm certainly not in favour of more government, but
I do think that mother nature's way of stopping our growth is
going to hurt.

I also think that even though some sub-groups may be able to
stop their growth, this will never work globally. So mother
nature will get the job anyway, eventually.

Jeroen Belleman

Obama want to throw funding at contraception.

I say make the goddamned parents in this country start doing their
fucking paternal job again, and stop leaving to and blaming it on
teachers and day care and baby sitters.

ALL kids born of teen parents unable to care for them should be removed
and fostered as well, and that means BOTH parents.

Now, the parent of those 'too damned young' parents should be held
responsible as well. Parents should also pay for the crimes of their
children.

Children should get ZERO constitutional rights as minors of adults. It
says: "All MEN are created equal." To me that means ADULTS.

Kids are kids, and parents are NOT being parents past the fucking
popping out and feeding parts. Must learn to EDUCATE you child as well.

This major erosion in our nation is mainly due to the need for two
incomes to support a household. Mom is no longer home to raise the kid.
Both Mom AND Dad should be there at night though, and the kid. Not out
lollygaggin' around with older kids that turn every one of them into gang
boy retarded little punk fucktards.

Kids today are stupid and it is no longer their fault. We are past
that. Hell, modern gang boy indoctrinations are because Dady is a gang
boy fucking retard too!

We do not need more government, we just need the one we have to enforce
the already existing laws, instead of incessantly giving themselves
raises and taking trips to the fucking doughnut shop.

 

[Martin Brown]

Why do all that, when you can just tax the final consumer of a product
or service, at the point of purchase? My company pays no tax on
materials that we buy for resale, like electronic components; we pay
sales tax on things that we actually consume, like tools and beer.

In the VAT system as implemented in Europe you get the VAT back on any
tools or stock purchased for business use. This is advantageous in some
industries with expensive capital kit. Can't help with the beer though.

Books are zero rated in the UK which is brilliant for buying from the
USA. Various essentials and staple foods are zero rated too.

You do get a few oddities but mostly harmless ones. eg stem ginger and
crystallised ginger. One is a staple ethnic food and the other is a
luxury item.

The major advantage of VAT - to governments - is that it hides from
the consumer how much tax he is actually paying.

Why tax adding value? Tax consumption, which is destroying value.

The disadvantage to the scheme is the amount of paperwork along the
chain (which I don't like). But coputers do most of the donkeywork. And
it is a real pain when some halfwit in government changes the VAT rate
by 2.5% in the run up to Xmas as happened last year.

But the net effect is to cleanly tax final consumption since the
terminal nodes never get to claim VAT back if they are not VAT
registered. Except in a handful of obscure special cases like for
charities and special needs handicapped medical equipment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

<snip>

<---quote--->
If you had purchased $1000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago,
you would have $49.00 today.

If you had purchased $1000 of shares in AIG one year ago,
you would have $33.00 today.

If you had purchased $1000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago,
you would have $0.00 today.

But---- if you had purchased $1000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer,
then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund,
you would have received $214.00.

Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle.

It's called the 401-Keg.

<---/quote--->

I like it!! Shame they don't do beer in gold cans.
That is one of the few metals that has really held its value.

Recycling in the UK has stalled because the value of waste plastic,
ferrous metals and paper has crashed to a point that is uneconomic. Up
until last year it was very profitable when demand was high.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[JosephKK]

WHO wants to have to replace and PAY for a MAJOR expensive
component(battery pack) on a **2 yr old** auto?
It sure isn't going to be a warranty replacement.

That's a deal-breaker right there.There'd be NO savings in having an
electric auto.

But you are supposed to want to drive around leaving trails of smug
instead of trails of smog. Let those that want that pay full price
for it.

 

[JosephKK]

of course,you also add extra expense with all those separate monitoring and
"SMPS outputs",and the extra circuitry and complexity makes for more
failures. Also violates the KISS principle.

Well, yes it does. On the other hand, modular redundancy is a well
proven engineering method to improve system reliability.

 

[JosephKK]

doubtful on the last part of your post,because it's likely the motor
controller will shut down if the pack voltage drops beyond some set
point,to prevent further pack damage,or undervoltage damage to the motor
itself. I believe most of the power systems on electrc cars today are the
DC-AC type,the controller converting the DC power pack's output to AC to
run an AC motor.

there might not be any way to shunt the "good" cells around the bad
ones,either.

Part of the point of the modular design. With it have the possibility
of re-arranging the modules into a workable configuration.

 

[JosephKK]

Yeah,and the Narod has pretty much denied or not heard any of it.

Which definition of narod are you using? Or are you making a pun?

 

[JosephKK]

[snip]

I want FAST and SAFE, which usually implies BIG ;-)

...Jim Thompson

several Porsches and Mercedes are small,fast,yet safe.
No car should be required to withstand fast collisions or off-road
"shunts".
IMO,people SHOULD be at risk;it will make them pay more attention to their
driving,or thin out the gene pool.

IMO,good handling,braking and most importantly,the DRIVER,make a car
"safe".BTW,"safety" also includes the damage your vehicle can do to other
vehicles.
IMO,having more SUVs and "light trucks" being commonly used as
daily-driver passenger vehicles has DECREASED safety for everyone.

I forgot to mention, 5-passengers, seated in comfort, and all their
luggage for 1 week stashed in the trunk ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Sounds like a task for a rental.

 

[JosephKK]

I agree with that.
IMO,It should be the operators choice to not wear seatbelts or MC
helmet,BUT,auto/MC insurers should not have to pay medical claims for those
not wearing their seatbelts or helmet.

I have been saying that for over a decade, and i ride to work most
days (i no longer ride in the rain).

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

We need to stick to the essentials in Gov't;defense,Judicial,etc.,not
social programs.

And we need to put the deparrtment of "defense" back on the task of
defense, rather than empire-building.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

I know, hence the smiley.


Yeah, but so did Bush and Clinton, etc... I suppose Obama might end up being
worse in this respect, though...

Well, he's apparently leaving the majority of the Cheney empire machinery
in place, plus adding a huge steaming pile of socialism on top.

I fear for America.

Speaking of "defense", I bet Osama ben Laden and his pals are rolling
on the floor laughing, watching Washington, DC doing more damage to
America than any number of "terrorists" could possibly hope to accomplish.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

And, employers DO provide such things in those areas, at least good
ones do. Or covered parking or other amenities when they can.

Those are probably only rated for a tank heater or so - it would cost
a fortune to provide enough current to charge a whole electric car
battery bank.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Charlie E.]

Once you start driving,the heat generated by the electric motor may be used
to provide interior heat.
That doesn't provide for defrosting current for the back window or initial
defrosting of the front.
That's where a hybrid electric auto is more practical.A small gas or diesel
motor will heat up quickly.

A company providing charging outlets essentially is paying for your power
usage.They may not be interested in doing that. I suspect most companies
will not do it for free,or not at all.Just the initial cost of the wiring
and outlets is something I doubt most companies will provide,particularly
in today's business climate.(economics,tight profit margins)

Covered parking may just be the result of city regs requiring employers or
commercial buildings to have enough parking spaces for the employees.Like
making them build a parking garage.


They may not be able to afford the installation costs,and desire to move
you into public transpo anyways.

OR, they may realize that it is a net income source (purchase KWHs at
$.04, sell them at $.10) and put them in everywhere!

Charlie

 

[[email protected]]

You seem to be competing with AlwaysWrong in being always wrong...
apparently for the same reasons.

US fertility rate is about 2.13, just about replacement. Our
population growth is being driven by immigration.

Still higher than Europe.

Wrong again. Walk through a university campus here and see.

The quality of the education offered by your university campuses does
vary from campus to campus. The Bob Jones University won't graduate
many women who have a working knowledge of contraception (or anything
else useful). The fact that half the students are female doesn't
guarantee that they are learning anything useful.

Get a job.

I keep trying, but there are fewer jobs that I can reasonably apply
for than there were six months ago, so I can say that I'm all that
optimistic.

But if we want to be unreasonably optimistic, I could suggest that you
could try to get an education, or at least learn to find some
supporting evidence before you start pontificating.At the momnt you
are one of the shining examples of the weakness of the US education
system - not as splendid as Jim Thompson, of course, whose ignorance
is truly remarkable, despite his time at MIT - but still impressively
ignorant outside of electronics.

 

[Nobody]

I want FAST and SAFE, which usually implies BIG ;-)

IOW: safe for you, dangerous for everyone else.

 

[Nobody]

The goal here is to make a car that has good acceleration,
but still not waste gas by being grossly overpowered on the
highway (because ICEs aren't efficient at 10% load).

Note that there's a big difference between diesel and petrol here.
Petrol engines take a performance hit from having to suck air past a
partially-closed throttle.

 

[Nobody]

Batteries are lots of trouble in traditional gas
powered cars in cold weather.

Wouldn't batteries as primary power source
be a bad idea in colder northern states?

Nope.

With high-density types such as Li-ion, the problem is usually ensuring
that they don't overheat. Most notebook manufacturers have had problems
with overheating batteries; the problem is much more severe when you're
delivering upwards of 50kW.

To the extent that cold reduces the performance, it isn't as if the car
simply won't start. It just means that you won't get the spec'd 0-60 time
until you've been driving for 5 minutes. Given that the driver is probably
still half asleep, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. ICEs tend not to be
at their best when stone cold either.

The situation is completely different for a lead-acid battery used to
drive a starter motor. Lead-acid doesn't like cold, and you need full
power when it's at its coldest. By the time you have heat, you don't need
the battery.

How economical would all electric cabin heat be?

That's probably a legitimate concern in colder regions.

Decent cabin insulation would actually matter if you don't have "free"
heat.

 

[amdx]

Michael wrote:
[...]
Imagine a family with two electric cars. 100HP (75kW) engine each -
not too big, is it? On an average workday each driver commutes for on
hour [...]
Do we have an infrastructure to support it?

On average, a car needs nowhere near 75kW. Some 10 to 15kW
should do fine.

That's as idiotic as 200hp ! 0 - 60 in one minute maybe ?

Graham

A 20 hp motor driven at 50% overvoltage with a current limited controller
will
get a lightweight car up to speed fast enough. At that point you can back
off on the
current and the motor be just fine.
I'm running a 2hp 28 volt motor on my gokart. I have a 48 volt battery
pack. When
I accelerate it draws over 200 amps. 48 x 200= 9.6kw, of course as I get
up to speed
the amperage drops and the motor does fine.
The point is you can get a lot more power out of the motor for short
bursts.
Maybe even 5 times more.
I think the 1/4 mile record is under 8 seconds at 159mph.
Mike

Here is a high end DC motor for use in EVs.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...13"+motor+interpoles&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Notice the peak output is 2.75 times the continuous hp.
Continous HP Rating not published yet but is about 35 hp
WarP 11" - HP Rating at 144 Volts is about 95 and 460 amps.
Mike


..

 

[TheM]

Nope.

With high-density types such as Li-ion, the problem is usually ensuring
that they don't overheat. Most notebook manufacturers have had problems
with overheating batteries; the problem is much more severe when you're
delivering upwards of 50kW.

To the extent that cold reduces the performance, it isn't as if the car
simply won't start. It just means that you won't get the spec'd 0-60 time
until you've been driving for 5 minutes. Given that the driver is probably
still half asleep, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. ICEs tend not to be
at their best when stone cold either.

The situation is completely different for a lead-acid battery used to
drive a starter motor. Lead-acid doesn't like cold, and you need full
power when it's at its coldest. By the time you have heat, you don't need
the battery.


That's probably a legitimate concern in colder regions.

Decent cabin insulation would actually matter if you don't have "free"
heat.

Double-glass windows, such as in the house, and 5cm styrofoam?


M

 

[amdx]

<snip>

<---quote--->
If you had purchased $1000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago,
you would have $49.00 today.

If you had purchased $1000 of shares in AIG one year ago,
you would have $33.00 today.

If you had purchased $1000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago,
you would have $0.00 today.

But---- if you had purchased $1000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all
the beer,
then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund,
you would have received $214.00.

Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily &
recycle.

It's called the 401-Keg.

<---/quote--->

Cheers!
Rich

Sorry Rich,
It's funny, but I don't think it's true.
Best price I can find for aluminum is $0.20 per LB.
It takes 32 cans to make a LB.
At $15.00 a case (24 cans, you tell me, I found that online, might be low)
That's 67 cases or 1608 cans or 50lbs of aluminun.
I think that's $10.00.
Keep thinking, there must be a better reason to drink.
Mike