Electronic clocks in applicances?

[The Doctor]

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power. How much power
do they typically draw? Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

 

[Agent \ 86 \ ®]

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power. How much power
do they typically draw? Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

Yep , they are going to use sundials .

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power. How much power
do they typically draw? Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

Geez, they would cost less than your cold water from the fridge !!
Change your focus mate !!!!

 

[Dand]

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power. How much power
do they typically draw? Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

Are you talking about the displays? because the actually clock chips and
crystals can keep the time drawing just a few uA at 3.3V so power is like 8
microwatt.

small LCD display (2x 16 characters) draws most power from the backlight
which is usually 100mA at 5V, 0.5W.

In a day then its 12w hours. Compared to a 100W light globe of 2400w hours.

So LCD clock running all day is about equal to 8 minutes of a light.

Of course most clock LCD will draw a lot less than 0.5W, probably typically
0.1 or 0.2W.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power.

**Yep. I've heard the same bullshit.

How much power

do they typically draw?

**About the same amount in one year as a two bar heater will use in a few
hours. Or as much in one week as a few halogen downlights will use in one
hour.

Are there any plans by major manufacturers to

reduce that?

**Yep. There are no plans to get consumers to switch to Solar hot water,
however, which would REALLY reduce power consumption. Of to get people to
wear an extra sweater during the Winter, instead of running that central
heating. Or to choose more efficient appliances (better air conditioners,
'fridges, etc) instead of buggering around with inconsequential things.

Education and common sense will reduce electricity consumption for more
efficiently that turning off a DVD player.

 

[The Doctor]

Are you talking about the displays? because the actually clock chips
and crystals can keep the time drawing just a few uA at 3.3V so power
is like 8 microwatt.

small LCD display (2x 16 characters) draws most power from the
backlight
which is usually 100mA at 5V, 0.5W.

In a day then its 12w hours. Compared to a 100W light globe of 2400w
hours.

So LCD clock running all day is about equal to 8 minutes of a light.

Of course most clock LCD will draw a lot less than 0.5W, probably
typically 0.1 or 0.2W.

Ok, but 12WH per household. I still think you can save a fair bit for
a city. Surely the question is what are they used for. Are most people
that organised to prepare their meal and have the microwave start before
they get home etc. etc.?

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Ok, but 12WH per household. I still think you can save a fair bit for
a city.

**Sure, but not by switching off clocks. Switching to Solar hot water would
almost halve domestic power consumption. Now THAT is significant.

Surely the question is what are they used for. Are most people

that organised to prepare their meal and have the microwave start before
they get home etc. etc.?

**Again, you're attacking an almost non-existent problem, whilst ignoring
the major issue. Heating (including hot water) and cooling are THE major
power consumption areas. Then cooking. Lighting is next, followed by all the
other stuff. Hot water, on it's own, represents between 30% and 50% of the
average electricity usage (assuming electric off-peak).

 

[Agent \ 86 \ ®]

**Sure, but not by switching off clocks. Switching to Solar hot water would
almost halve domestic power consumption. Now THAT is significant.

Surely the question is what are they used for. Are most people

**Again, you're attacking an almost non-existent problem, whilst ignoring
the major issue. Heating (including hot water) and cooling are THE major
power consumption areas. Then cooking. Lighting is next, followed by all the
other stuff. Hot water, on it's own, represents between 30% and 50% of the
average electricity usage (assuming electric off-peak).

With global warming , cold showers will be the norm and * that * will reduce
electricity consumption heaps

 

[Ed -]

Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load! ______________________________
Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to do,
considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances have a
combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year, which
is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.

You turn your televisions, VCRs and DVD players off when they are not
being used. So you think they aren't wasting electricity, right? Wrong!
Many of these appliances run on standby power when they are turned off
to operate clocks and remote devices. The energy used by an appliance
when it is shut off is called "the phantom load". It sounds ominous and
it is, costing you more on your monthly utility bill than you need to
pay.

A typical 25-inch television will consume 90-watts of energy when on,
and 4.5-watts when on standby. Therefore, if you only watch the TV for
an hour a day, your paying more for power consumption when the TV is off
than on. VCRs and DVD players are worse and use only about 5 per cent of
their total energy for intended use (playing and recording videos/DVDs).
The biggest culprits however, are cable boxes, satellites decoders and
video game boxes. These devices will use almost as much energy off as
on.

So what's an entertainment loving person to do? Unplug devices that use
standby power when you are not using them. This includes anything with a
clock, like a coffee maker or a microwave (seriously, who needs five
clocks in their kitchen?). Even better, you can plug everything into a
power bar (chances are it already is) and just click off the power bar
switch when finished. A quick, easy and effective way to eliminate the
phantom load.

You don't have to stop in the family room. Anything that has a wall cube
transformer (plugs that are little black or gray boxes) carry a phantom
load too. When you feel them, they may be hot. That heat represents
energy being consumed that you pay for, but don't use. Take a couple of
minutes to walk around your house or business a do a quick inventory of
appliances that are plugged in and using electricity that really don't
have to be. You could end up saving yourself some money.

Always remember to look for the Energy Star symbol when shopping for new
appliances. The Energy Star ensures that the product meets strict
government and international standards for energy efficiency.

For more information on appliances, the "phantom load", or other energy
saving tips, contact the South West Shore Energy Office at (902)
875-2915 or E-mail at [email protected].

Jason Hollett is the Energy Officer for the South West Shore Energy
Office

 

[Ed -]

http://eetd.lbl.gov/EA/Reports/42108/
http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/lowercf/pdfdownloads/ECEEE01_jv.pdf

 

[Ken Taylor]

Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load! ______________________________
Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to do,
considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances have a
combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year, which
is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.

You turn your televisions, VCRs and DVD players off when they are not
being used. So you think they aren't wasting electricity, right? Wrong!
Many of these appliances run on standby power when they are turned off
to operate clocks and remote devices. The energy used by an appliance
when it is shut off is called "the phantom load". It sounds ominous and
it is, costing you more on your monthly utility bill than you need to
pay.

A typical 25-inch television will consume 90-watts of energy when on,
and 4.5-watts when on standby. Therefore, if you only watch the TV for
an hour a day, your paying more for power consumption when the TV is off
than on. VCRs and DVD players are worse and use only about 5 per cent of
their total energy for intended use (playing and recording videos/DVDs).
The biggest culprits however, are cable boxes, satellites decoders and
video game boxes. These devices will use almost as much energy off as
on.

So what's an entertainment loving person to do? Unplug devices that use
standby power when you are not using them. This includes anything with a
clock, like a coffee maker or a microwave (seriously, who needs five
clocks in their kitchen?). Even better, you can plug everything into a
power bar (chances are it already is) and just click off the power bar
switch when finished. A quick, easy and effective way to eliminate the
phantom load.

You don't have to stop in the family room. Anything that has a wall cube
transformer (plugs that are little black or gray boxes) carry a phantom
load too. When you feel them, they may be hot. That heat represents
energy being consumed that you pay for, but don't use. Take a couple of
minutes to walk around your house or business a do a quick inventory of
appliances that are plugged in and using electricity that really don't
have to be. You could end up saving yourself some money.

Always remember to look for the Energy Star symbol when shopping for new
appliances. The Energy Star ensures that the product meets strict
government and international standards for energy efficiency.

For more information on appliances, the "phantom load", or other energy
saving tips, contact the South West Shore Energy Office at (902)
875-2915 or E-mail at [email protected].

Jason Hollett is the Energy Officer for the South West Shore Energy
Office

 

[Ken Taylor]

Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load! ______________________________
Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to do,
considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances have a
combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year, which
is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.

Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of devices
at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be less
than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying $0.15 per
kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see if
it's worthwhile.

It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for putting
out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing
something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.

Ken

 

[Ed -]

I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?


:
: : > Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load!
______________________________
: > Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to
do,
: > considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
: > player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances
have a
: > combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year,
which
: > is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.
: >
: Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of
devices
: at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be
less
: than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying
$0.15 per
: kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see
if
: it's worthwhile.
:
: It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for
putting
: out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing
: something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.
:
: Ken
:
:

 

[Ken Taylor]

I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

Granted, but that's not the entirety of the issue. The amount of extra
energy by having a clock function on the appliance is insignificant
given that it won't be switched off at the wall anyway. People just
*aren't* going to reach around and turn the things off at the wall. Do you??

What's the % of power to be saved here, compared to efficiencies to be
gained by using energy efficient appliances and homes/buildings, greater
use of solar heating, and back-feeding to the grid? What about
commercial lighting left on inappropriately? The bureaucratic easy-fix
is a crock.

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Agent \ 86 \ ®]

I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

I hope your not a 12 oclock flasher !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ed -]

: Ed - wrote:
: > I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem
during
: > hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
: > demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
: > efficiency in the home.
: >
: > see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.
: >
: > clocks in various appliances are often on different times or
flashing
: > 00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to
see
: > the time, what is the point of its existence?
: >
: Granted, but that's not the entirety of the issue. The amount of extra
: energy by having a clock function on the appliance is insignificant
: given that it won't be switched off at the wall anyway. People just
: *aren't* going to reach around and turn the things off at the wall. Do
you??
:
: What's the % of power to be saved here, compared to efficiencies to be
: gained by using energy efficient appliances and homes/buildings,
greater
: use of solar heating, and back-feeding to the grid? What about
: commercial lighting left on inappropriately? The bureaucratic easy-fix
: is a crock.
:
: Cheers.
:
: Ken

domestic peak demand is around 9pm, long after the backfeed from solar
panels has ceased, but the "insignificant" standby waste is on 24H/day,
burning extra coal and producing tonnes of CO2. An "energy efficient
appliance"s in my book is one which doesn't consume when it is not
being used.
eg: an electric kettle is efficient, a VCR or TV or VCD is not
efficient.

 

[Ken Taylor]

In the life of many microwave ovens more than 50% of the energy would be
used in running the clock, and less than 50% in running the microwave part.
Get yourself a good energy meter and try it in your house. Obviously if
you use the microwave to cook 50 dinners every day then this will not be
the case for you but it is often true. Still TVs are probably far more
wasteful than microwave ovens.

The real problem is getting the appliance manufacturer to install a 240V
rated switch before the power supply where they would prefer to install a
low voltage switch after the power supply. Most portable radios have this
problem even though they don't have a display to power.

Insulating houses better and using solar hot water are more important uses
of effort, but when a TV + set top box can use 50 Watts all the time, and
if there is another 150 Watts of phantom loads around the house, the energy
use adds up to quite a lot over the years. It only goes unnoticed because
electric power is so cheap.

Chris

Quick calculation here - an 800W microwave on for, say, 30 min's a day.
That's 1/50th of the day - is the clock going to consume 16W? Maybe, but I
doubt it (OP referenced an article which I admittedly bagged which suggested
4.5W for the clocks, so there's a comparism). And it doesn't matter if the
unused clock is in a TV, a VCR or a microwave - if it's unused, it's
wasteful. Interesting point though - how much power does a 'normal' TV use
in standby? Must find a spec.....

I don't really have a beef with the idea of not using power when it isn't
required, but if these facilities aren't required, then they shouldn't be
put in. In fact, since the energy-conscious people feel so strongly, they
should invest in producing and selling appliances which don't have the
clocks and so forth, and which power down after some interval or incident so
that they have to be powered up again. Let's see if these appliances sell
better than the current crop.

I'd suggest not - people want gizmos and ease-of-use, and getting up off
your arse and switching something back on just isn't going to cut it. The
idea of going over and switching off (or unplugging, for Christ's sake!) at
the wall is just ludicrous. It's a waste of time to even suggest this
nonsense and devalues the idea of total energy conservation. We should be
paying attention to the major issues of our power problems, not pissing
about the edges, easy though it is to talk about it.

As for power being cheap - do *you* want to pay more? And the fact that the
peak occurs at night is irrelevant too - the idea is to gain total systemic
efficiencies, which just isn't occurring now.

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Mark Harriss]

I don't really have a beef with the idea of not using power when it
isn't required, but if these facilities aren't required, then they
shouldn't be put in. In fact, since the energy-conscious people feel
so strongly, they should invest in producing and selling appliances
which don't have the clocks and so forth, and which power down after
some interval or incident so that they have to be powered up again.
Let's see if these appliances sell better than the current crop.

I thought those cheap two knob microwaves: timer and power setting were
only turned on when the timer knob was set. These would use no
quiescient current you'd think.

 

[Ken Taylor]

I thought those cheap two knob microwaves: timer and power setting were
only turned on when the timer knob was set. These would use no
quiescient current you'd think.

Then they are the ones to get if you're worried about idle power usage. If
they're cheap enough then maybe they'll make an impact.

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Quick calculation here - an 800W microwave on for, say, 30 min's a day.
That's 1/50th of the day - is the clock going to consume 16W? Maybe, but I
doubt it (OP referenced an article which I admittedly bagged which
suggested
4.5W for the clocks, so there's a comparism). And it doesn't matter if the
unused clock is in a TV, a VCR or a microwave - if it's unused, it's
wasteful. Interesting point though - how much power does a 'normal' TV use
in standby? Must find a spec.....

Here's one I chose at random:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...VIA&ProductSKU=KDLV32XBR1&TabName=specs&var2=

I'll quote:

Standby power consumption = 0.15W

Now, let's get with the programme and switch to Solar power for hot water
and forget this silliness about standby power consumption figures. I can't
find the reference, but I recall that the US EPA legislated that all devices
which use standby power must reduce the level to below 1 Watt, by such and
such a date. It would seem that Sony (at least) have managed this trivial
piece of engineering.

Now, let's discuss something meaningful: Does anyone have experience with a
good, stainless steel Solar hot water system? THAT is the way I am going to
reduce my power consumption. I've just chucked out my 125 Watt flood lights
in my XLTastic heater/light/fan systems. I installed these new Philips, warm
white 23 Watt compact flurous. Very impressive. Brighter than the floods and
only 7 Bucks! Stick your worries about standby power figures up yer bum.
It's a complete furphy.