Electronic Design - Project Management

G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe G (Home) said:
Thanks guys.

The product is an active RFID tag... >> -----

BASTARD.

It's an interesting comment on the state of the human race that creates a
market for RFID tags.....

It gets worse when people don't know how to do them need to disguise an
'original' question before they drop their bomb......

Hi All.
Hi Group.
Hi Guys.
La la la la la.

I'm looking for a pink thing and I haven't decided what shade of pink I'd
like it to be so I thought I'd come along and ask your opinions about shades
of pink......

Looking forward to your input, team.

.....................................................

Thanks Guys, all of your input was really appreciated. By the way this is an
RFID tag and I was also wondering about some other stuff..... Like, how does
RFID work?

Dribble
Dribble
Dribble

**** OFF!

DNA
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you put'em on eBay you'll be able to rapidly find out. :)

Most of the stuff I make would probably have I lear 1 and possible 2 zeroes
dropped from the price tags if they were put on eBay...

I have bought a few of my VME modules on ebay, just to keep them out
of the wrong hands. We looked up the serial numbers, and we'd sold
them to the Los Alamos National Lab. I paid about 0.5% of list price.

John
 
J

joseph2k

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ian said:
snip

You seem to have pretty much covered all the bases but you have forgotten
one extremely important factor. Team work. You are in a business and your
job is to help it be as successful as possible. The only way to do this is
to work in a team with others outside R&D. There are people who will tell
you to keep sales and marketing away until you have a prototype. They are
wrong. It is only your innovations that will enable your companies product
to differentiate itself from its competitors and to pick the best
innovations you need a long term dialogue with S&M. The same applies to
manufacturing. Your prototype is useless if it uses parts or processes
production cannot handle. You need to know what they can do and you need
to be able to discuss new parts and processes with them at the earliest
possible time. R&D cannot and must not work in isolation.

Ian

Most stuff in this thread is good. Keep S&M away from engineering before
prototype, and in general. The thought patterns are too divergent;
engineers tend to think in terms of "can we do it (at any cost)", sales and
marketing to think in terms of "how do convince people they need this".
Oh, and move test and test requirements up to the ugly prototype stage,
even earlier if you can, it should never be an afterthought.
 
J

Joe G \(Home\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
I never asked for any technical support to design the RFID Tag- as I read my
posts correctly again (I was after more of the proceedures for project
management to educate myself and my boss).

Some posted a question and asked what I was intending to design... so in
repsonse... I provided a little information.

I have 2 methods for waking up the RFID with a typical continous drain
current ~ 6uA.

Sorry to have offended you.
 
J

Joe G \(Home\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
The wake up detect range I have seen advertised is ~ 12metres..

I have seen it operate at 4 metres with std medium power antenna.

But you can't just detect amplitude becuase it may false detect single
carrier interference eg from a PC monitor OR switch mode power supply.

May be that will give you a clue.

JG
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Joe,

6uA is good!

Joe G (Home) said:
But you can't just detect amplitude becuase it may false detect single
carrier interference eg from a PC monitor OR switch mode power supply.

Sure, and I imagine some tags are not very good about conserving power in the
presence of such interferers. I've always been surprised that most cell
phones are pretty poor at conserving power when they're out of range of a
tower -- they seem to keep searching for a tower on a regular basis rather
than changing to some more adaptive scheme.

---Joel
 
I

Ian Bell

Jan 1, 1970
0
joseph2k said:
Keep S&M away from engineering before
prototype, and in general. The thought patterns are too divergent;

Which is precisely why they MUST be working together right from the start
engineers tend to think in terms of "can we do it (at any cost)",

GOOD engineers do not think like that
sales and marketing to think in terms of "how do convince people they need
this".

GOOD marketeers do not think like this. This 'them and us' attitude' will be
the death of western product development.

Ian
 
Z

Zak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
Sure, and I imagine some tags are not very good about conserving power in the
presence of such interferers. I've always been surprised that most cell
phones are pretty poor at conserving power when they're out of range of a
tower -- they seem to keep searching for a tower on a regular basis rather
than changing to some more adaptive scheme.

A cell phone on standby transmits very rarely (network dependent) and
receives in very short bursts whenever it expects a page for it to come
by on a frequency that it knows.

A phone that is out of range needs to scan the whole band. I remember
from my old phone that when I tried it in the US, or in europe in some
canyon, with no transmission at all, that it would be done scanning very
quickly. When just 'out of range', or with some signals present, it has
to listen to each channel to determine what is there.

And receiving needs a lot more power than just keeping the display warm.


Thomas
 
P

PeteS

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I never asked for any technical support to design the RFID Tag- as I read my
posts correctly again (I was after more of the proceedures for project
management to educate myself and my boss).

Some posted a question and asked what I was intending to design... so in
repsonse... I provided a little information.

I have 2 methods for waking up the RFID with a typical continous drain
current ~ 6uA.


Sorry to have offended you.

No problem; Genome seems to offend himself (must have something to do
with the soap)

Cheers

PeteS
 
L

Le Chaud Lapin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ian said:
GOOD marketeers do not think like this. This 'them and us' attitude' will be
the death of western product development.

The "them and us" attitude starts when we are 5 years old and continues
for a lifetime. And it is not the engineers' fault. There is a
pathology that underlies the the social dynamics of technology-oriented
corporations.

WARNING: Long Elitist Rant Follows. If your I.Q. is under 88, stop
reading.

I will characterize of both types of people, the engineers, and the
sales&marketing types, then discuss the pathology on that results from
these characterizations. These are generalizations, and
generalizations, by definition, always have exceptions.

ENGINEERS:

Let's face it. We're not dumb, and we know it. We start off ahead.
From the very beginning, we excel in school. We're generally at the
top of our classes. Bringing home top grades becomes so routine we
take it for granted. The positive reinforcement from parents and
teachers only serve to encourage us to polish whatever raw talent we
were given.

We are not particularly socially adept, nor the most attractive in the
crowd (the God Is Fair Principle). Some of our social awkwardness, if
present is innate, but much of it comes from a cycle of ostracization
by people who are 'different' from us, which is essentially everyone
except the top 5%. The envy of such people serve to marginalize us.

We do not particularly look down upon people who are not like us. They
are just people. But sometimes there is a clash of tastes - one can
only listen to stories about who got drunk so many times before wanting
to pass out from boredom. And they do not enjoy our attention to
detail in old Star Trek episodes. But in general, contempt from us to
"them" is usually reserved for those who earn it. We generally do not
go around worrying that people not like us have to struggle with
simple things like General Relativity. ;)

THE SALES AND MARKETING PEOPLE:

Let's face it. Some of them are really attractive. And they know it.
A few have charisma. But looks and charisma have limited earning
potential, unless you are an entertainer. From the very beginning,
these people struggle with their grades. They ***know*** from the very
beginning that they are *NOT* in the top 5%.

Those not like us generally regard us as having an inherent advantage
over them. It becomes difficult for even the most friendly among the
"other side" to not have envy every now and then. They struggle to get
into the best state college, while we get upset because we got 20
points less than we thought we would get on entrance exam to one of
three outstandingly reputable schools.

THE PATHOLOGY:

Now imagine you are humming long, earning your $100,000.00US+ per year,
wearing a slightly-smelling T-shirt because you "forgot" to wash it,
and smiling because you finally figured out that new PSD algorithm.
You look down at your socks and realize that, though both are white
with blue stripes, the stripes on one sock are wider than those on the
other. Oh well, it doesn't matter, your work is not a beauty contest.
What matters is how well you can hone in on just the right part for a
circuit and build the board with minimal cost. And the management
agrees. That's why they have an extremely relaxed dress code (for you)
and racks of Twinkies in the break room. They want you to be as relaxed
as possible so that your brain does what it should.

Along comes a marketing executive. His hair is combed. His shirt is
white, not smelly, with a tie hanging over it. He's getting coffee to
be alert. He articulates his words. He doesn't interrupt you when
you're speaking. He gives you eye contact, and though you cannot see
his socks, you are pretty sure they match, each other, and the shoes.
He's using words that seem to be a drivel of bombastic babble, and he
is about to go to conference call to discuss for an hour what you
already know the answer to. You notice that this seems to be a trend,
all kinds of people who don't know what the hell is *really* going on
spending hours and hours yapping as if they gearing up for brain
surgery.

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?

Fear.

They are terrified at the thought that this wonderful opportunity, this
high-tech company, that pays them handsomely, $30,000/year MORE than
the top engineer in the company for basically walking around and
talking a lot and using Word, Powerpoint, and Outlook. And making sure
their socks match and their shirts do not smell. Only 10 years
earlier, they were working as managers in relatively low-paying jobs.
How times have changed! It is hard to believe. And to top it off,
they've managed to convince the CEO that *more* marketing and sales
people are needed. They need to build their team. Their is strength
in numbers. So they go and find other people like themselves, people
who don't know a bit from what a horse bytes on, and *those* people
begin earing the big bucks too. And each month, when $13,000+ is
electronically deposited into their account, and they are on a beach in
San Diego, drinking little fruity beverages while checking out the
locals, thinking about the after-party that they are going to go to
that evening in a company (V12) rental car, they reminisce about all
those years where they struggled in grade school, in high school, in
college, cheated occasionally just to get by while you took on "extra"
work for "intellectual stimulation", and now they are on top, and
they'll be DAMNED if they are going to let this go. God forbid if
upper management actually discovered that their role was non-essential
*before* it came time to do mass layoffs.

So they make their roles look absolutely critical by injecting
themselves deep into the bowels of progress.

-Le Chaud Lapin-
 
J

Joe G \(Home\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
A bit more of a clue is 3 tuned LF antennas in the near field (magnetic
field) for X, Y, Z direction becuase the rod antennas will be directional.

The wake IC detects a serially transmitted ASK pattern before it wakes up
the micro and 433MHz Tx.

Joe.
 
F

Frank Raffaeli

Jan 1, 1970
0
for a lifetime. And it is not the engineers' fault. There is a
pathology that underlies the the social dynamics of technology-oriented
corporations.

WARNING: Long Elitist Rant Follows. If your I.Q. is under 88, stop
reading.

I will characterize of both types of people, the engineers, and the
sales&marketing types, then discuss the pathology on that results from
these characterizations. These are generalizations, and
generalizations, by definition, always have exceptions.

ENGINEERS:

Let's face it. We're not dumb, and we know it. We start off ahead.>From the very beginning, we excel in school. We're generally at thetop of our classes. Bringing home top grades becomes so routine we
take it for granted. The positive reinforcement from parents and
teachers only serve to encourage us to polish whatever raw talent we
were given.

We are not particularly socially adept, nor the most attractive in the
crowd (the God Is Fair Principle). Some of our social awkwardness, if
present is innate, but much of it comes from a cycle of ostracization
by people who are 'different' from us, which is essentially everyone
except the top 5%. The envy of such people serve to marginalize us.

We do not particularly look down upon people who are not like us. They
are just people. But sometimes there is a clash of tastes - one can
only listen to stories about who got drunk so many times before wanting
to pass out from boredom. And they do not enjoy our attention to
detail in old Star Trek episodes. But in general, contempt from us to
"them" is usually reserved for those who earn it. We generally do not
go around worrying that people not like us have to struggle with
simple things like General Relativity. ;)

THE SALES AND MARKETING PEOPLE:

Let's face it. Some of them are really attractive. And they know it.
A few have charisma. But looks and charisma have limited earning
potential, unless you are an entertainer. From the very beginning,
these people struggle with their grades. They ***know*** from the very
beginning that they are *NOT* in the top 5%.

Those not like us generally regard us as having an inherent advantage
over them. It becomes difficult for even the most friendly among the
"other side" to not have envy every now and then. They struggle to get
into the best state college, while we get upset because we got 20
points less than we thought we would get on entrance exam to one of
three outstandingly reputable schools.

THE PATHOLOGY:

Now imagine you are humming long, earning your $100,000.00US+ per year,
wearing a slightly-smelling T-shirt because you "forgot" to wash it,
and smiling because you finally figured out that new PSD algorithm.
You look down at your socks and realize that, though both are white
with blue stripes, the stripes on one sock are wider than those on the
other. Oh well, it doesn't matter, your work is not a beauty contest.
What matters is how well you can hone in on just the right part for a
circuit and build the board with minimal cost. And the management
agrees. That's why they have an extremely relaxed dress code (for you)
and racks of Twinkies in the break room. They want you to be as relaxed
as possible so that your brain does what it should.

Along comes a marketing executive. His hair is combed. His shirt is
white, not smelly, with a tie hanging over it. He's getting coffee to
be alert. He articulates his words. He doesn't interrupt you when
you're speaking. He gives you eye contact, and though you cannot see
his socks, you are pretty sure they match, each other, and the shoes.
He's using words that seem to be a drivel of bombastic babble, and he
is about to go to conference call to discuss for an hour what you
already know the answer to. You notice that this seems to be a trend,
all kinds of people who don't know what the hell is *really* going on
spending hours and hours yapping as if they gearing up for brain
surgery.

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?

Fear.

They are terrified at the thought that this wonderful opportunity, this
high-tech company, that pays them handsomely, $30,000/year MORE than
the top engineer in the company for basically walking around and
talking a lot and using Word, Powerpoint, and Outlook. And making sure
their socks match and their shirts do not smell. Only 10 years
earlier, they were working as managers in relatively low-paying jobs.
How times have changed! It is hard to believe. And to top it off,
they've managed to convince the CEO that *more* marketing and sales
people are needed. They need to build their team. Their is strength
in numbers. So they go and find other people like themselves, people
who don't know a bit from what a horse bytes on, and *those* people
begin earing the big bucks too. And each month, when $13,000+ is
electronically deposited into their account, and they are on a beach in
San Diego, drinking little fruity beverages while checking out the
locals, thinking about the after-party that they are going to go to
that evening in a company (V12) rental car, they reminisce about all
those years where they struggled in grade school, in high school, in
college, cheated occasionally just to get by while you took on "extra"
work for "intellectual stimulation", and now they are on top, and
they'll be DAMNED if they are going to let this go. God forbid if
upper management actually discovered that their role was non-essential
*before* it came time to do mass layoffs.

So they make their roles look absolutely critical by injecting
themselves deep into the bowels of progress.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Rabbit,

I may consider washing my shirt and combing my hair. I'm not that smart
anymore.

Frank
 
L

Le Chaud Lapin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
Rabbit,

I may consider washing my shirt and combing my hair. I'm not that smart
anymore.
;)

A French colleague told me that there was a study done that indicated
that Americans, compared to some other societies, wash themselves too
much. It showed that, while daily bathing was encouraged, it was not
always good to remove every possible human scent from your body.

Apparently, some scents work as aphrodesiacs, and the soap kills these
scents.

-Le Chaud Lapin-
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
;)

A French colleague told me that there was a study done that indicated
that Americans, compared to some other societies, wash themselves too
much. It showed that, while daily bathing was encouraged, it was not
always good to remove every possible human scent from your body.

Apparently, some scents work as aphrodesiacs, and the soap kills these
scents.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Yep. And it's been shown that anti-perspirants/deoderants are
addictive... in the sense, once you use them, they ARE necessary
forever.

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

Jan 1, 1970
0
A French colleague told me that there was a study done that indicated
that Americans, compared to some other societies, wash themselves too
much. It showed that, while daily bathing was encouraged, it was not
always good to remove every possible human scent from your body.

Apparently, some scents work as aphrodesiacs, and the soap kills these
scents.

Nah, it's just that most of the critters that normally live on your skin
are actually friendly critters, and they help you fight off the nasty
critters. Showering too often strips away your first line of protection
from stuff like aida and e. coli and stuff. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
Joe said:
HI All,

I have worked a little in a electronic design team in a previous job... and
I want to communicate to my boss that there are a lot of steps required in
building a successful product as well as design resources required and
electrical approvals etc.

My boss has experience is electronic retail but limited experience in R&D ,
design and production of a product.

I have a few steps here... and I would appreciate any other factors you
think I should communicate also.

** specifically for the electronic / hardware design part EG add 4 weeks
for R&D samples and hardware tooling etc **

-draw up a product concept spec - what is it likely to do
- get boss to sign off product concept spec
-from the product concept spec - draw up a full product spec
-get the boss to sign off product spec
-draw up a design specification - including topology of the design (major
silicon cost and etc)
- Budget cost out the Design based on 1 or more topologies
- Silicon cost
- R&D design time and material cost
- Hardware cost
-licence fees, IP cost, approval fees
- anticipated production cost
- overall product cost per volume mfg.
- Cost of development tools and test equipment required.

- boss signs off on budget costs or 1 or more topologies

- select one of the 1 topologies to start R&D development (1)
(signed off by boss)

OK we can begin

-Begin R&D to work towards completing selected design
- Order in development tools and test equipment not immediately available
for design

- Develop early R&D prototype board to prove concept and design topology

- Boss Signs off on R&D prototypes.... OR makes changes to product
specifications go to (1)

- R&D Prototypes approved - begin production prototype design

- Complete production prototype design and Boss signs off on the production
prototypes
(compare against product specification)

- Sales and Marketing can be begin to draw up marketing plans

- Develop a test specification and test jigs for production

- Procure components and PCB for production

- Send test specification and test jigs to production area.

- production begins

- Sales and Marketing can begin to release Marketing plan

- Monitor production testing results and take random samples from production
test production and design quality
(feed back and improve design or production procedure where necessary)

- Production lot complete.... Take final random inspection to test against
AQL (quality) sampling plan.

- Flog the product on the market.

- Monitor any returns or failures of the product and improve design /
production.
 
C

Charlie Edmondson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Yep. And it's been shown that anti-perspirants/deoderants are
addictive... in the sense, once you use them, they ARE necessary
forever.

...Jim Thompson
Which, surprisingly enough, I never use. I was a swimmer all through
grade and high school, and I suspect that all that chlorine killed all
the smelly bugs off me. Later, in college (no pool :-( ) a friend
showed me that a swab with a cotton ball soaked in alcohol did just as
good a job as those expensive, smelly deodorants, and I never looked
back. Now, I hate the darn stuff. My nose is too sensitive, and often
when I get into crowded situations, like church or shopping, the smells
just about kill me! I would much prefer the smell of a little honest
sweat than the gallons of eau de cologne everyone seems to need...

Charlie
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Which, surprisingly enough, I never use. I was a swimmer all through
grade and high school, and I suspect that all that chlorine killed all
the smelly bugs off me. Later, in college (no pool :-( ) a friend
showed me that a swab with a cotton ball soaked in alcohol did just as
good a job as those expensive, smelly deodorants, and I never looked
back. Now, I hate the darn stuff. My nose is too sensitive, and often
when I get into crowded situations, like church or shopping, the smells
just about kill me! I would much prefer the smell of a little honest
sweat than the gallons of eau de cologne everyone seems to need...

Charlie

I've never used them either. And I'm with you, perfumes and colognes
drive me nuts... nothing more devastating than a crowded elevator :-(

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian

Jan 1, 1970
0
.
back. Now, I hate the darn stuff. My nose is too sensitive, and often
when I get into crowded situations, like church or shopping, the smells
just about kill me! I would much prefer the smell of a little honest
sweat than the gallons of eau de cologne everyone seems to need...

You're lucky you weren't in that elevator I was in - some fat broad
stepped aboard, and the stench from the cologne she had apparently just
bathed in was so bad that my throat started to close up. I wanted to
vomit. Actually, the cologne smelled a lot like vomit. I ran out of the
elevator car, with great fanfare (AIIIEEEEE!!! CAN'T BREATHE!!!!), and
lit a cigarette in the corridor in protest/self-defense. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
I

Ian Bell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Le said:
The "them and us" attitude starts when we are 5 years old and continues
for a lifetime. And it is not the engineers' fault. There is a
pathology that underlies the the social dynamics of technology-oriented
corporations.

WARNING: Long Elitist Rant Follows. If your I.Q. is under 88, stop
reading.

Schoolboy psychology twaddle snipped.

Oh dear, you do have a chip on your shoulder.

Ian
 
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