fbi xl-4500

[Crash Gordon]

The can't still be making this panel, can they?

A Dr. friend of mine was just charged 500 bucks for a small office
install...when I looked at it it was a beat up old can with an FBI XL-4500
board in it. Sloppy job too. I bid on the job but didn't get it..and now he
wishes his boss had gone with my proposal.

Anyway...anyone know when this panel was discontinued (I think it is
anyway)??

 

[Bob La Londe]

I would say that has been discontinued since the early 90's

Atleast. I started contracting in 1993 and switched to FBI from DSC in
1994. My first small panels were FBI XL-2s.

The precursur to the XL-2 was the XL-4600.

 

[newb]

The can't still be making this panel, can they?

A Dr. friend of mine was just charged 500 bucks for a small office
install...when I looked at it it was a beat up old can with an FBI XL-4500
board in it. Sloppy job too. I bid on the job but didn't get it..and now he
wishes his boss had gone with my proposal.

looks like he got what he paid for.

 

[Nick Markowitz Jr.]

They discontinued the 4500 in late 80's when FBII was bought by the then
Ademco
and changed panel numbers to XL 1,2 3 etc.

 

[Crash Gordon]

thats what I thought...want to make sure before I said anything to him.
what a bunch of rip off artists...selling a long ago discontinued panel in
an old ratty box to someone as new.


|
| | > The can't still be making this panel, can they?
| >
| > A Dr. friend of mine was just charged 500 bucks for a small office
| > install...when I looked at it it was a beat up old can with an FBI
XL-4500
| > board in it. Sloppy job too. I bid on the job but didn't get it..and now
| he
| > wishes his boss had gone with my proposal.
| >
| > Anyway...anyone know when this panel was discontinued (I think it is
| > anyway)??
|
| Only about 10 years or so ago
|
|

 

[Buggs]

If a "Doctor" was that cheap and showed such poor judgement I would
not think I'd want to have him for a "Doctor" let alone a customer.

Heh, just about every doctor I'ver ever met was a cheapskate when it came to
security.
js

 

[Crash Gordon]

They do...but I hate CP-01 anyway.


| If you were in a state that had CP-01 laws you could at least turn them
in.
|
| | > thats what I thought...want to make sure before I said anything to him.
| > what a bunch of rip off artists...selling a long ago discontinued panel
in
| > an old ratty box to someone as new.
| >
| >
| > | > |
| > | | > | > The can't still be making this panel, can they?
| > | >
| > | > A Dr. friend of mine was just charged 500 bucks for a small office
| > | > install...when I looked at it it was a beat up old can with an FBI
| > XL-4500
| > | > board in it. Sloppy job too. I bid on the job but didn't get it..and
| now
| > | he
| > | > wishes his boss had gone with my proposal.
| > | >
| > | > Anyway...anyone know when this panel was discontinued (I think it is
| > | > anyway)??
| > |
| > | Only about 10 years or so ago
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Welp...he is cheap that's for sure...I won't tellya from where he hails
'cause that would should like profiling or something. But he is a decent guy
and give me tons of leads so I take care of him...he woulda gone with me if
it was totally his decision.


| If a "Doctor" was that cheap and showed such poor judgement I would not
| think I'd want to have him for a "Doctor" let alone a customer.
|
| | > The can't still be making this panel, can they?
| >
| > A Dr. friend of mine was just charged 500 bucks for a small office
| > install...when I looked at it it was a beat up old can with an FBI
XL-4500
| > board in it. Sloppy job too. I bid on the job but didn't get it..and now
| he
| > wishes his boss had gone with my proposal.
| >
| > Anyway...anyone know when this panel was discontinued (I think it is
| > anyway)??
| >
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Robert L Bass]

Welp...he is cheap that's for sure...I won't

tellya from where he hails 'cause that would
should like profiling or something. But he is
a decent guy and give me tons of leads so
I take care of him...he woulda gone with me if
it was totally his decision.

Perhaps I missed something. In the original
post we learned that some alarm dealer ripped
this doctor off, installing an ancient (and certainly
used) panel instead of putting in a new system.

Now it's the doctor's fault? It sounds to me as
though he overpaid the crooked alarm company
by about $500. He ought to take them to small
claims court as well as file a complaint with the
state licensing authority.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Doug]

We know that the installaing company installed an old and possibly
(probably) used system, we don't know if that was disclosed to the customer,
nor do we know if the alarm company was crooked or not, for all we know the
customer asked if they could use an old/used panel to lower the price. We
also don't know if $500 was a fair price since we don't know the scope of
the install.
Most people would like a little more information before accusing others of
being crooked.

Doug

 

[Crash Gordon]

who said it was the doctor's fault....his senior partner in the mini-venture
decided to go with the shlocky company...my guy the doc had no choice. I may
end up with the remodel though!


|> Welp...he is cheap that's for sure...I won't
| > tellya from where he hails 'cause that would
| > should like profiling or something. But he is
| > a decent guy and give me tons of leads so
| > I take care of him...he woulda gone with me if
| > it was totally his decision.
|
| Perhaps I missed something. In the original
| post we learned that some alarm dealer ripped
| this doctor off, installing an ancient (and certainly
| used) panel instead of putting in a new system.
|
| Now it's the doctor's fault? It sounds to me as
| though he overpaid the crooked alarm company
| by about $500. He ought to take them to small
| claims court as well as file a complaint with the
| state licensing authority.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| =============================>
| Bass Home Electronics
| 941-925-8650
| 4883 Fallcrest Circle
| Sarasota · Florida · 34233
| http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
| =============================>
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

I asked him that tonight...I thought maybe they leased him the system...but
no, he said his partner/boss paid for a new system (uh-oh maybe I got
someone in trbl ...2 of the three motions didn't work and were mounted at
almost 10 feet all on one loop of course.

I'll be taking a pix of this one next time I go back there...it's another
beauty.


| We know that the installaing company installed an old and possibly
| (probably) used system, we don't know if that was disclosed to the
customer,
| nor do we know if the alarm company was crooked or not, for all we know
the
| customer asked if they could use an old/used panel to lower the price. We
| also don't know if $500 was a fair price since we don't know the scope of
| the install.
| Most people would like a little more information before accusing others of
| being crooked.
|
| Doug
|
| --
|
| | >
| > Perhaps I missed something. In the original
| > post we learned that some alarm dealer ripped
| > this doctor off, installing an ancient (and certainly
| > used) panel instead of putting in a new system.
| >
| > Now it's the doctor's fault? It sounds to me as
| > though he overpaid the crooked alarm company
| > by about $500. He ought to take them to small
| > claims court as well as file a complaint with the
| > state licensing authority.
| >
| > --
| >
| > Regards,
| > Robert L Bass
|
| > http://www.bassburgIaraIarms.com
| > =============================>
|
|

 

[Robert L Bass]

who said it was the doctor's fault....

Not you. Stevens and one of the others.

I may end up with the remodel though!

At least he'll finally get a decent system.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Crash Gordon]

worse...these guys didn't even use tape or beanies on connections above the
ceiling tile...bare wires just twisted together. The doc got up there and
put some temporary tape on the connections that were shorting out to the
grid.

Lick 'em and stick 'em morons



|
| | > I asked him that tonight...I thought maybe they leased him the
| system...but
| > no, he said his partner/boss paid for a new system (uh-oh maybe I got
| > someone in trbl ...2 of the three motions didn't work and were
mounted
| at
| > almost 10 feet all on one loop of course.
| >
| > I'll be taking a pix of this one next time I go back there...it's
another
| > beauty.
|
| Sounds like something a DIY'er would do
|
|

 

[Jim]

worse...these guys didn't even use tape or beanies on connections above the
ceiling tile...bare wires just twisted together. The doc got up there and
put some temporary tape on the connections that were shorting out to the
grid.

Lick 'em and stick 'em morons

Sounds like a system I got involved with a number of years ago.

My next door neighbors son does contracting for institutions. He was
involved with a job for a day care center for the children of
attendees at a local college. Since it was a "government" job, the
electrician was chosen on the basis of being a minority company. That
is, it was owned by a woman. They did the electrical and also did the
fire and burglar alarm. Used an FBI 4500. One burg zone for entry exit
door. All the rest of the twenty openings and motion detectors on
another zone. Fire was two smoke detectors and a couple of heat
sensors. No strobes, no pull stations, no horns. Obviously, it didn't
pass "anyones" inspection so they called me as referred by my
neighbors son. I was absloutely speechless ( and you know how hard
THAT is to accomplish) when I saw the job. They asked me to write up
what was wrong with the system. I said I'd have to charge them for
that and that it would be more cost effective if they just let me bid
on a new system. They agreed. Although I installed the system,
ultimately I had to walk away from the job because they couldn't get
anyone of authority to take on the limitation of libility clauses in
my monitoring contracts and I wasn't about to let the money get in the
way of caution. I got paid for what I did because I was working for
the contractor and he signed the sale contracts. I didn't get the
monitoring. The were really exasperated and totally shocked that I
wouldn't monitor their account with a contract that made me lible for
anything that happened. The institutional mentality. Every time I
drive by the day care center and see the fire alarm box on the outside
of the building I smile.

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yah...I walked away from one exactly like that a few years back... it was
one of those last stop nursing home kinda places.

That was about when I decided I'd had enough with commercial fire.



| On Jun 27, 9:27?am, "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]>
| wrote:
| > worse...these guys didn't even use tape or beanies on connections above
the
| > ceiling tile...bare wires just twisted together. The doc got up there
and
| > put some temporary tape on the connections that were shorting out to the
| > grid.
| >
| > Lick 'em and stick 'em morons
| >
| Sounds like a system I got involved with a number of years ago.
|
| My next door neighbors son does contracting for institutions. He was
| involved with a job for a day care center for the children of
| attendees at a local college. Since it was a "government" job, the
| electrician was chosen on the basis of being a minority company. That
| is, it was owned by a woman. They did the electrical and also did the
| fire and burglar alarm. Used an FBI 4500. One burg zone for entry exit
| door. All the rest of the twenty openings and motion detectors on
| another zone. Fire was two smoke detectors and a couple of heat
| sensors. No strobes, no pull stations, no horns. Obviously, it didn't
| pass "anyones" inspection so they called me as referred by my
| neighbors son. I was absloutely speechless ( and you know how hard
| THAT is to accomplish) when I saw the job. They asked me to write up
| what was wrong with the system. I said I'd have to charge them for
| that and that it would be more cost effective if they just let me bid
| on a new system. They agreed. Although I installed the system,
| ultimately I had to walk away from the job because they couldn't get
| anyone of authority to take on the limitation of libility clauses in
| my monitoring contracts and I wasn't about to let the money get in the
| way of caution. I got paid for what I did because I was working for
| the contractor and he signed the sale contracts. I didn't get the
| monitoring. The were really exasperated and totally shocked that I
| wouldn't monitor their account with a contract that made me lible for
| anything that happened. The institutional mentality. Every time I
| drive by the day care center and see the fire alarm box on the outside
| of the building I smile.
|
|

 

[Robert L Bass]

worse...these guys didn't even use tape or beanies

on connections above the ceiling tile...bare wires just
twisted together. The doc got up there and put some
temporary tape on the connections that were shorting
out to the grid.

Lick 'em and stick 'em morons

The funny thing about this is I've seen lots of "professional" installations like that. The absolute worst of the large, nationals
was Sonitrash. We took over many of their jobs and almost invariably had to rip out and replace everything. There are also a lot
of independent dealers whose work isn't much better.

OTOH, most DIYers are extremely careful about their work. That's likely because they're not just "doing a job." They're protecting
their own homes and families. If anything they tend to overdo the protection. Sometimes they ask for a system that includes door
and window contacts, motion detectors and glass break detectors in every room. I usually explain that it's not necessary to bug
every square foot, just make it more of a pain to rob their place than the neighbor's house. :^)

The main reasons I hear from DIYers who don't want to buy a professionally installed alarm are that their previous systems were
poorly installed, inadequate (2 doors switches and 1 motion for a 3,500 sf home) and they falsed all the time. The other issues are
price and recurring costs.

I sold a system yesterday to a homeowner. He had been quoted ~$500 + $45 a month for 3 years or $1,500 plus $35 a month for 3 years
(weird math there). That was one of the local "authorized dealers." When he checked online he discovered that the "free" system
being touted by one of the other dealers as an "$1,800 value" actually retails for less than $400. If homeowners knew how little
alarm companies are charged for monitoring service (between $2 and $7 per month) they'd be even more upset at the $45 monthly
charge. One dealer we know charges $35 a month on a five year contract, installs a simple system that costs him ~$300 and charges
"only" $200 for the installation. He also charges a mandatory $90 fee to connect the RJ31X telephone jack, which costs dealers $2.
That's $2,390 for 2 doors and a motion. He uses a well-known central station from Linden, NJ. Their fee is $2 per month. His
costs: $120 for 5 years' monitoring, $300 for parts and $100 (being generous here) for labor. Total out of pocket for the dealer
is $420. His markup is 570% -- not too shabby.

With markups in excess of 500% and workmanship like that, it's no wonder we get so many new DIYers every day. I probably ought to
thank those guys. It also explains why certain people here who work for monitoring companies with "authorized dealer" programs
constantly rag on DIY. Perhaps they need to take some lessons from one of my DIY customers. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>