good free PCB software

[ivan]

hi,

what is a good free capture and layout software?

Ivan

 

[Christian Treldal]

Den Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:28:01 +0100 skrev ivan:

hi,

what is a good free capture and layout software?

Ivan

http://www.geda.seul.org/

 

[Mike Monett]

Den Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:28:01 +0100 skrev ivan:

http://www.geda.seul.org/

Just took a brief look - very interesting. I have a few questions I didn't
notice while glancing through:

1. Is there any way to back annotate pcb changes to the schematic?

2. Does the pcb have full DRC?

3. Can it generate a BOM?

Regards,

Mike Monett

Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Just took a brief look - very interesting. I have a few questions I didn't
notice while glancing through:

1. Is there any way to back annotate pcb changes to the schematic?

2. Does the pcb have full DRC?

3. Can it generate a BOM?

Regards,

Mike Monett

What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

 

[DJ Delorie]

1. Is there any way to back annotate pcb changes to the schematic?

Not yet, but it's being worked on. I just keep both windows open, and
make changes simultaneously. I haven't found it too annoying yet. In
fact, with pcb's rats code, it's easier (design-wise) to make the
change in the schematic, export a new netlist, and let the rats code
guide you through the trace changes, since it highlights the
mismatched traces and tells you when they're reconnected right.

2. Does the pcb have full DRC?
Yes.

3. Can it generate a BOM?

Yes.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

I believe the common objections are that it isn't free (as in beer) for
commercial usage and that some people really, REALLY want a piece of software
with the source code provided so that they can modify/patch it if they feel
like it.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

I believe the common objections are that it isn't free (as in beer) for
commercial usage and that some people really, REALLY want a piece of software
with the source code provided so that they can modify/patch it if they feel
like it.

OK, no beer.
As to patching, hey I am an active Linux contributor, and added important
functionality to several open source packages ( dvdauthor, tcmplex-panteltje
for example), also wrote some totally new ones: xste, multimux... many of that stuff,
and I _tried_ to get mplayer fixed and I _tried_ to get DVB driver fixed..... well,
I ain't gona patch for them if they want to do their own trip.
I have looked (downloaded geda whatever that package years(!) ago, and it
needed so many other packages, and with all that it still did not work,
so better use something that works.
(I found somebody in France IIRC made a Linux distro CD size with all working,
but hey do you want me to remove the current distro? ;-) )
Of course when it does not work, patching it is even further in the future.
So your second argument may be valid for somebody, but how many do you think
that are?
If I download a program, open source or closed source, I usually do that because
I want to use it for something, not to 'improve on it' if in any way possible.
If it is the only program, and I can figure out how to improve it, I will.
But if I need to make a PCB, have it ready say end of week, I will use
something that works.
That is for private use.
As a company, the cost of time spend 'patching' (never mind time installing
even) is likely more then a brand new version of eagle.
So economics apply.
And then there are the libraries.
Why does spellchecker want to replace 'distro' with 'bistro'

 

[Mike Monett]

What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

Hi Jan.

I am running Eagle on Suse. It works, but I still can't get used to the
large number of mouse clicks needed to do a board.

One thing I do appreciate is the utter reliability of Linux. I would leave
Eagle running six months or more at a time and never had a crash. But I
got into the habit of rebooting Windows several times a day, especially
before doing anything critical.

Regards,

Mike Monett

Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Hi Jan,

So your second argument may be valid for somebody, but how many do you think
that are?

I think that objectively it applies to less than 1 person in 1000 that wants
to do a PCB, but I'm welling to bet that there are at least ten times that
many people who go to open source because their mindset is "must use open
source software; closed source evil! Bill Gates is spawn of Satan!"

If I download a program, open source or closed source, I usually do that
because
I want to use it for something, not to 'improve on it' if in any way
possible.

I agree with you... although there are people in commercial situations (i.e.,
they can't choose for themselves what software they're using) who I think
would go and improve software (if only to patch bugs) if they had the source
code available. (ORCAD is a good example... has lots of weird crappy little
bugs.)

As a company, the cost of time spend 'patching' (never mind time installing
even) is likely more then a brand new version of eagle.
So economics apply.

In general I agree, but I think there are a lot of people out there whose
companies use a "low value" product such as, say, PADS (powerful package that
gets the job done, but *quite* expensive compared to other packages that are
just as good... company is unwilling to switch because they have, say, 20
people using it who they don't want to re-train... penny-wise and
pound-foolish, perhaps, but that's the way many companies are) where it
probably *would* have real commercial payback to fix things yourself.

---Joel

 

[DJ Delorie]

I have looked (downloaded geda whatever that package years(!) ago, and it
needed so many other packages, and with all that it still did not work,
so better use something that works.

Did you use the cvs download, or the installer CD? The installer CD
has everything you need on one disk, and builds/installs it all for
you.

 

[Andy Peters]

I believe the common objections are that it isn't free (as in beer) for
commercial usage and that some people really, REALLY want a piece of software
with the source code provided so that they can modify/patch it if they feel
like it.

Joel,

Methinks you read to much into Ivan's request for "free software."
It's likely that he doesn't care about open-source and he just wants
something for nothing.

As it turns out, the free (as in beer) PCB software is worth exactly
what you pay for it.

-a

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

Having started off life with the 1.2 version of EasyPC for DOS, waded
through Orcad, and wound up as a beta tester for Circuitmaker/Traxmaker 2K,
the problem with Eagle is that it is completely counterintuitive.

I was up and running (well, OK, maybe a brisk walk) with those first three
packages within a couple of days. Two MONTHS with Eagle and I still was
struggling.

If you gave the German source code for Eagle to a Brit or an Aussie to
massage you'd probably have something to take the world on with. As it
stands, it is a monument to German engineering that is, for the most part,
useless.

Jim

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Did you use the cvs download, or the installer CD? The installer CD
has everything you need on one disk, and builds/installs it all for
you.

I tried it from source.
As I stated some years ago.
I just checked out that site again, and I see now there is an installer CD.
The reason for 'from source' is that this system I have looks like debian,
but is totally modified, although many packages are there, a debian
install would perhaps not find these, and mess up the system installing in
other locations perhaps.
I use grml ( www.grml.org ), but removed all stuff that I thought was not
needed (and clearly was not needed as it has been up and running 24/7 as
server now for more then a year).

So I am scared of installer CD too.
WTF is wrong with a tgz.
Maybe MAYBE if I feel the inspiration and need, I will have a go again.
I do have a backup system

That said, I am downloading the 129MB ISO image and will check out what is
on it.
Probably will not work ;-)
Some stuff I already have of course, PCB, iverilog...
PCB is OK, made some layouts with that too, however it is on the other harddisk.
(old suse distro).
I did have that working in qemu at the same time once IIRC.

Have to stay clear of these experiments.....
Maybe it is all to complicated for me

 

[DJ Delorie]

As it turns out, the free (as in beer) PCB software is worth exactly
what you pay for it.

Why?

 

[DJ Delorie]

I tried it from source. As I stated some years ago.

Ok, a lot has changed in the last few years.

WTF is wrong with a tgz.

The installer CD has all the tgzs you need, plus a script to build
what you're missing and install it - all in a separate directory, so
it wouldn't mess up your system.

So you can just build the tgz off the CD if that's what you want.

Probably will not work ;-)

If not, we want to know. Ok, Stuart wants to know ;-)

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Having started off life with the 1.2 version of EasyPC for DOS, waded
through Orcad, and wound up as a beta tester for Circuitmaker/Traxmaker 2K,
the problem with Eagle is that it is completely counterintuitive.

I've read this several times now, and whenever I do it often takes me back to
the early '90s when I was using ProBoard/ProNet on an Amiga 3000 to layout
PCBs... it was another classic example of completely throwing away the "theme"
of the GUI within the OS and inventing their own from scratch!

Anyone else here ever use that package?

I remember calling up for tech support one and the guy yelled at me because I
had taken advantage of their "beta tester" discount -- which wasn't much,
maybe 20% off the regular price -- but then not actually had a board to do
right then and therefore was unable to provide them feedback as to what worked
and what didn't. Sheesh.

I also remember how it wasn't even smart enough to "rubber band" wires or nets
if you moved components around (and this was during the ORCAD SDT 386 days,
which certainly *could*). Aieee...

 

[Stuart Brorson]

: On a sunny day (29 Nov 2006 12:57:11 -0500) it happened DJ Delorie
:>> I have looked (downloaded geda whatever that package years(!) ago, and it
:>> needed so many other packages, and with all that it still did not work,
:>> so better use something that works.
:>
:>Did you use the cvs download, or the installer CD? The installer CD
:>has everything you need on one disk, and builds/installs it all for
:>you.

: I tried it from source.
: As I stated some years ago.

Well, let's see. First you tried it out "some years ago". It didn't
meet your needs at the time, so you now dismiss it out of hand.

As for me, I tried driving a car "some years ago". I got my hands on
something called a "Model T". It was hard to start, didn't go fast
enough, and didn't meet my needs. Therefore, I have stuck to walking
ever since then because cars don't meet my needs.

: I just checked out that site again, and I see now there is an installer CD.

Oh! You mean that the project has evolved over the last few years!?
You don't say.....

: The reason for 'from source' is that this system I have looks like debian,
: but is totally modified, although many packages are there, a debian
: install would perhaps not find these, and mess up the system installing in
: other locations perhaps.

Ummm, there are several installation methods listed on this page:

http://geda.seul.org/download.html

including Debian .debs, Fedora RPMs, and the install CD.

: So I am scared of installer CD too.

That's fine. That's why there are multiple install options. Chose
the one you are most comfortable with.

: WTF is wrong with a tgz.

Ummm, the there are all source files in tgz format available on this
page (linked on the main download page):

http://geda.seul.org/sources.html

: That said, I am downloading the 129MB ISO image and will check out what is
: on it.
: Probably will not work ;-)

Let us know if it doesn't. If it fails, please report the distro you
are using along with including the Install.log file with your report.
If you just e-mail the developers a note saying "I tried your
installer and it failed. Why?" they will treat you like a two month
old sandwich found in the back of the fridge.

Have fun!

Stuart

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Ok, a lot has changed in the last few years.


The installer CD has all the tgzs you need, plus a script to build
what you're missing and install it - all in a separate directory, so
it wouldn't mess up your system.

So you can just build the tgz off the CD if that's what you want.


If not, we want to know. Ok, Stuart wants to know ;-)

OK, here you have it, downloaded geda-install-20060907.iso
Mounted it in loop

mount -t iso9660 -o ro,loop=/dev/loop0 geda-install-20060907.iso /mnt/loop
Made a directory as root:

mkdir /root/compile/geda
cd /root/compile/geda
grml: ~/compile/geda # /mnt/loop/installer --log
print: About to call gtk.main

/mnt/loop/installer --log 4.73s user 1.84s system 33% cpu 19.509 total

Here is your firts mistajke, i taskes me for root password, and I AM already root.
And what guarantee do I have it is not send to you (this is a server remember), security risk.
Anyways it tells me it wil linstall 'gd' and the crashes, with nothing of use in the log.
grml: ~/compile/geda # cat Install.log
This is the log window which will display the
spew generated by the installation process



gEDA Installer -- version 20060907,
Copyright (C) 2004 -- 2006 Stuart D. Brorson.

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.


Checking for various required programs . . .

which gcc
/usr/bin/gcc

which make
/usr/bin/make

which gtk-config
gtk-config not found
gtk-config is missing on this machine.
We'll tell the user about that in a minute.

which pkg-config
/usr/bin/pkg-config
pkg-config version 0.20 found.
pkg-config version found on this system is good. Great!

find /usr/include /usr/local/include -name 'readline.h' -print | grep 'include/readline/readline.h'
/usr/include/readline/readline.h
readline.h found on this system. Great!

which gettext
/usr/bin/gettext

which autopoint
/usr/bin/autopoint
A complete gettext installation found on this system. Great!

which gdlib-config
gdlib-config not found
We need to install gdlib-config on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which guile
guile not found
We need to install guile on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which wx-config
wx-config not found
We need to install wx-config on this machine. We'll do that in a minute.

which wish
/usr/bin/wish
tclsh version 8.4 found.
tclsh version found on this system is good. Great!


Preparing to install gd libraries. . . .

Now start process of building and installing gd.

I need root in order to execute this command.


--- Starting expect session ---
Sending su
Timeout waiting for password prompt
--------------------------------------------------
End of log. CRASHED here


Maybe you now get why you should release a stail linked version......
Anyways it did not get very far now did it?
I stop here (no more tests).

umount /dev/loop

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:07:17 -0000) it happened Stuart Brorson

: That said, I am downloading the 129MB ISO image and will check out what is

: on it.
: Probably will not work ;-)

Let us know if it doesn't. If it fails, please report the distro you
are using along with including the Install.log file with your report.
If you just e-mail the developers a note saying "I tried your
installer and it failed. Why?" they will treat you like a two month
old sandwich found in the back of the fridge.

Have fun!

Stuart

See my other posting how it failed and your no clue about security.

 

[JeffM]

What is wrong with Eagle for small boards and 2 layers?
http://www.cadsoft.de/

**What's Wrong with Cadsoft EAGLE" by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...less+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened

BTW, it's not really necessary to include the full text
from the 3 previous posters. Feel free to TRIM.