good free PCB software

[Nico Coesel]

I've been reinstalling gEDA for years too. The process got a lot easier
a few years ago, when they put together a CD-sized collection of source
files and make files that automatically compiles the whole package on
your computer. Worked fine for me under SuSE 10.0, and they monitor
it's perfromance on a bunch of other popular distributions.

Once installed, the package can be used to do serious work - check out
the mailing list.

Schematic capture is quite allright (you'll still need too many clicks
to set parameters), but the PCB package has -IMHO- a severe flaw in
it: it doesn't link the traces and polygons to the nets. This may seem
unimportant but once you've made a short circuit PCB can't figure out
which net belongs to a trace. The result is a big mess which is
difficult to sort out.

I've raised this issue before, maybe DJ fixed this in the meanwhile?

Another thing with PCB is the footprint editing. It made me write some
C functions that can be used to put a footprint together. Positive
side effect is that the footprints are absolutely accurate so I can't
really call this a downside.

 

[JeffM]

The potential is for all men to be able to be a beast or a saint.
So if you call Gates 'evil' then you are merely pointing out a facet
that may very well be somewhere manifest in you too.

I don't see myself being convicted of illegal business practices.
The same holds for the 3 individuals I named.
Not everyone has a broken moral compass.
In a properly-structured society, people who break the rules are
punished.

It is a free world, and you can choose.

Point out a place where I can buy a PeeCee without Windoze installed
cheaper than I can buy one with Windoze--or even for the same price.

Balmer is not dictating anything,

It's called momentum. M$ started early with their dirty tricks
and established an ill-gotten beachhead.
They figured that the slow nature of government and prosecution
might eventually cost them--but by then it wouldn't matter.

It would have been interesting to have seen the penalty phase
of US vs Microsoft come under a non-Republican administration
as the conviction did.

M$'s success is like the guy that brings home a feast to his family
which he got by murdering a guy who earned it fair and square
and was bringing it to HIS family.

 

[[email protected]]

Paul Burke wrote

[...]their mindset is "must use open source software;
closed source evil! Bill Gates is spawn of Satan!"

You're telling me he isn't?

Jan Panteltje wrote:

Remember in the evolution US committed genocide on the native Americans, we in
Europe possibly did the same with 'Neandertalers'.
The right of the strongest.
There is nothing wrong with evolution and fighting.

There is quite a lot wrong with evolution by fighting - social animals
like us evolve by finding better and more efficient ways to cooperate,
and the development of Linux is very interesting and potentially
socially significant exercise in non-competitive development.

Microsoft's reaction to Linux has been to attempt to generate fear,
uncertainty and doubt, which isn't exactly constructive

So, with all that 'character', make belief, illusions employed, an uncertain outcome
for the human species, the _only_ thing that counts is how much of the time you
can be happy.
Your efficiency in percent is: 100 x days_happy / days_lived.
And it does not matter if kill or let live, fight or live in peace.

It matters a lot - fighting is destructive, peace can be a time of
construction and positive development.

What does matter is that you find how the inner workings of your brain are and
chose happiness.
Do meditation.

So, as to the software, I wrote my programs because I needed the functionality,
for study, for fun.
Gate did the same, wrote a simple BASIC IIRC.
He just knows how to make $$$ with it, so let him, it is a free world, capitalism,

So he was free to wipe out Netscape by making continuous changes to the
(crappy) Microsoft web-server of the period, so that Netscape kept on
crashing when dealing with a Microsoft URL

I chose not to pay him those $$$, use Linux and write what I need.
What Torvalds and others do I really do not care a lot, our vision on DRM is different.
I have written 2 operating systems, a CP/M clone (in that time) and a windowing multitasker.
If Linux goes in a direction that I find not agreeable I will write my own.
For now it does what I need, server, communication, plays my TV and videos, not even need
for faster hardware.
I hope to get a Sony PS3 next year (March announced in Europe) and run Linux on it.
Already there is Linux available for it now.
That will up my speed and resolution to HDTV, give me blue ray playback all for 499 Euro.
Goodbye PC, that thing (Cell processor) can run as server too, looks better then the
beige box....
But it is also easy to write a small multitasker and run on one of the Cell co-processors.
It is a free world, and you can choose.

You can, maybe - it would take me ages to learn how to write an
operating system.

Balmer is not dictating anything, he may think he does, but as long as there is competition
he is always in danger of going belly up, I have seen big companies make big losses.

When you have 95% of the market the situation is a little more
predictable.

The original idea of an 'operating system' was to make a standard interface for software
to talk to the hardware, provide some basic functions.
Both MS windows and Linux are getting a bit bloated, a lot actually, and not always better.
The hardware will be getting faster....but power consumption should go way down.

Why? For modern CMOS power consumption is pretty much directly
proportional to clock frequency.

Pro of Linux is that you can run it small, I have it on a USB memory stick too.
Try that with Vista? So Balmer will face a formidable challenge.
Fight for survival.

Balmer is stuck with fighting dirty ....

 

[DJ Delorie]

it doesn't link the traces and polygons to the nets.

I've raised this issue before, maybe DJ fixed this in the meanwhile?

Nope, no change in this yet.

Another thing with PCB is the footprint editing. It made me write some
C functions that can be used to put a footprint together. Positive
side effect is that the footprints are absolutely accurate so I can't
really call this a downside.

Most of the footprints these days are either (1) edited in pcb itself,
or (2) pre-generated with your favorite language (I use perl, see
http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/dilpad.html for an
example)

The old way was to use M4 which was too obscure for most people,
although we still use it for the core libraries when it makes sense
to.

 

[Christian Treldal]

Den Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:38:15 -0500 skrev Mike Monett:

Just took a brief look - very interesting. I have a few questions I didn't
notice while glancing through:

1. Is there any way to back annotate pcb changes to the schematic?

No not yet. Discussions about how to do is going on.

2. Does the pcb have full DRC?

Yes, and you can turn it off as well.

3. Can it generate a BOM?

Yes, in xx different ways, and it's very easy to make your own.

 

[Robert Baer]

Just as an aside, nobody is 'evil' or at least not more or less then anybody else
in that contexts.
Although it maybe right some people / companies got pestered / swallowed /
put out of bussines, etc.. by Gates ULTD, at least for me when I started using Linux
it had nothing to do with that.
The reason was (about Linux 0.9 IIRC) that it had a free compiler (as in beer),
did not have a silly memory limit as MS DOS had (times of win 3.1 build on
MS DOS), and was free on top of that, and I liked Unix more.
It did mean I had to write almost every application I needed myself though.
Some did exist, some did but then did not work.. I would not expect these to
exist.

Much later came the open source advocacy, and along with Linux came people
who _demanded_ you added functionality to the apps you did put out as open
source but actually wrote for yourself.
I _did_ get an email almost exactly like this:
'You program sucks because it is spelled NewsFleX and that is to difficult to
type for me, and I do not like the GUI either'.
In those times I was polite and may have replied use a ln -s q NewsFleX, so
you only have to type 'q'.

These days I frankly tell them to go to you know where.
Somebody just emailed me the mpeg1 movies made with my multiplexer play OK on
all Linux players, but not MS mediaplayer.
I wrote back it was difficult to test for me (I have no recent MS software,
let alone mediaplayer), but that it was MS sabotage.
Then I was told it was so easy to have a scapegoat.
But hey should I install Vista to see of it will run my movies?
That is sort of defeating the purpose of why I use Linux in the fist place.
So I still have top make a politically correct follow up reply to that one,
but I did insert twice the word 'perhaps' in my original reply.
Now with the Novell / MS deal and Balmer accusing Linux of violating patents,
I do not even want Vista in a one mile range, even if it came for free (as in
beer) with free hardware for the bloat.

Once upon a time there was CP/M which used an absolutely stunning
amount of RAM, so much of the total 64Kbytes that there was only 56K of
TPA (Total Program space Available)!
And MPM was worse; only 48K TPA!
Then there was Wordstar that easily fit in that humongous space and
allowed one to easily and rapidly edit multiple megabyte text files.
And there were spreadsheet programs and database programs for DOS
that was as bad in memory useage.
Such memory hogs!

 

[Geoff Harland]

DJ Delorie wrote

gEDA runs on windows and mac too.

Can gEDA be compiled to run as a "standalone" Windows application, or is it
necessary to also run some type of (Linux-Windows) interface/emulation
program?

I could probably investigate this myself, but when I last looked at the gEDA
website (~ a month ago?), it wasn't obvious to me at that time that it could
be run on Windows. So can anyone provide any "off the cuff" clarification on
what is involved?

Regards,
Geoff Harland.
[email protected]
(Transpose m & s in address
provided - then also remove
cuberoot of 10^3 + 9^3 - 1^3.)

 

[Mike Monett]

Den Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:38:15 -0500 skrev Mike Monett:



No not yet. Discussions about how to do is going on.

Thanks, Christian. This will become very interesting when back-annotation
is available.

Regards,

Mike Monett

Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm

 

[ivan]

bookmarked

gEDA runs on windows and mac too.

you mean with cygwin? I could not see anithing about it in the
documentation...

 

[ivan]

DJ Delorie wrote

Can gEDA be compiled to run as a "standalone" Windows application, or is it
necessary to also run some type of (Linux-Windows) interface/emulation
program?

I could probably investigate this myself, but when I last looked at the gEDA
website (~ a month ago?), it wasn't obvious to me at that time that it could
be run on Windows. So can anyone provide any "off the cuff" clarification on
what is involved?

Regards,
Geoff Harland.
[email protected]
(Transpose m & s in address
provided - then also remove
cuberoot of 10^3 + 9^3 - 1^3.)

ok I have found it!! you will find everything you need to install in
windows here:
http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:cygwin
have fun

 

[The Real Andy]

I don't see myself being convicted of illegal business practices.
The same holds for the 3 individuals I named.
Not everyone has a broken moral compass.
In a properly-structured society, people who break the rules are
punished.

Point out a place where I can buy a PeeCee without Windoze installed
cheaper than I can buy one with Windoze--or even for the same price.

It's called momentum. M$ started early with their dirty tricks
and established an ill-gotten beachhead.
They figured that the slow nature of government and prosecution
might eventually cost them--but by then it wouldn't matter.

It would have been interesting to have seen the penalty phase
of US vs Microsoft come under a non-Republican administration
as the conviction did.

M$'s success is like the guy that brings home a feast to his family
which he got by murdering a guy who earned it fair and square
and was bringing it to HIS family.

I bet if you were bill gates you would be happy..

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Point out a place where I can buy a PeeCee without Windoze installed
cheaper than I can buy one with Windoze--or even for the same price.

There are several shops in the Netherlands that will be more then happy to
sell you the PC without windows.
And made to custom spec too ,and you can chose parts and configuration yourself.
www.alternate.nl
PC builder:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/includeStaticBig.html?treeName=Builder&file=BuildersInc
I just ran a test and ended up with a simple 324 Euro PC without OS.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

You can, maybe - it would take me ages to learn how to write an
operating system.

No it is simple.

Why? For modern CMOS power consumption is pretty much directly
proportional to clock frequency.

Intel has now 45nm working, article in German:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81728
lower power consumption comes with it.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Once upon a time there was CP/M which used an absolutely stunning
amount of RAM, so much of the total 64Kbytes that there was only 56K of
TPA (Total Program space Available)!
And MPM was worse; only 48K TPA!
Then there was Wordstar that easily fit in that humongous space and
allowed one to easily and rapidly edit multiple megabyte text files.
And there were spreadsheet programs and database programs for DOS
that was as bad in memory useage.
Such memory hogs!

Yea, what do we need Vista for ;-)

 

[Geoff Harland]

ivan wrote

Geoff Harland wrote

ok I have found it!! you will find everything you need to install in
windows here:
http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:cygwin
have fun

Thanks for the tip; I don't know if I would have found that page otherwise.
And I'll certainly have a go at building and running gEDA when I can find a
bit of time.

Regards,
Geoff Harland.
[email protected]
(Transpose m & s in address
provided - then also remove
cuberoot of 10^3 + 9^3 - 1^3.)

 

[ivan]

Try kicad at http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/index.html

It is very good, completely free and work both on Windows and Linux.

Ian

this sounds good, can't quite figure out how to convert capture libraries
and schematics....
I quote from ftp site:

Orcad to eeschema converter (tested only on Orcad SDT386 files)
liborcad2eeschema is the Orcad library to eeschema library converter
Usage:
1 decompile Orcad library file ( i.e. convert it to is ascii form).
Usualy the Orcad lib is something as file.lib and is decompiled form is
file.src

.....how do you decompile .lib into .src?

2 Run liborcad2eeschema.exe with the two args <file.src> <libeeschema.lib>,
i.e.:
liborcad2eeschema.exe file.src libeeschema.lib

orc2eeschema.exe is the Orcad Schematic to eschema schematic converter
1 Create an library archive (with Orcad Libarch) (something as
mylibarch.src)

.....when I create an archive it just copies the project into a different
dir, managed to create a lib with the design cache but then I am back to
square one.

2 Convert Orcad Schematic to .aex form( exchange form)
3 for each .aex file run

.....again, could not find how

orc2eeschema.exe <source orcad> <output eeschema> <mylibarch> (with no
extension for filenames)

4 - Add mylibarch.lib to eeschema list libraries (in first position)

5 - Global Labels must be adjusted in eeschema.


.....it is quite unfortunate that there is no development support for these
tools, in fact it would be nice to be able to convert orcad pcb layout files
too...

thanks
ivan

 

[Rich Grise]

Jan Panteltje wrote:
Point out a place where I can buy a PeeCee without Windoze installed
cheaper than I can buy one with Windoze--or even for the same price.

Fry's.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Robert,

Then there was Wordstar that easily fit in that humongous space and
allowed one to easily and rapidly edit multiple megabyte text files.

I've used Wordstar on a CP/M machine and, yeah, it was quite impressive for
the time, but I distinctly remember that there were plenty of 3-5 second
pauses depending on what you were doing while the program went and loaded an
overlay, loaded the next section of your file, etc. I think there have been
significant productivity gains with modern word processors like Word of
OpenOffice Writer.

And there were spreadsheet programs and database programs for DOS that was
as bad in memory useage.
Such memory hogs!

It's kinda a resource thing... gas is cheaper in the U.S. than in other
countries, so we drive bigger cars... memory is dirt cheap everywhere, so
people write bigger programs...

 

[Rich Grise]

On a sunny day (Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:14:15 GMT) it happened Robert Baer


Yea, what do we need Vista for ;-)

So the kiddies can play "Kill the Humans" with photo-grade animation? =:-O

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Robert,


I've used Wordstar on a CP/M machine and, yeah, it was quite impressive for
the time, but I distinctly remember that there were plenty of 3-5 second
pauses depending on what you were doing while the program went and loaded an
overlay, loaded the next section of your file, etc. I think there have been
significant productivity gains with modern word processors like Word of
OpenOffice Writer.


It's kinda a resource thing... gas is cheaper in the U.S. than in other
countries, so we drive bigger cars... memory is dirt cheap everywhere, so
people write bigger programs...

I once worked as a programmer at some outfit that had MP/M 8-16 -
essentially, multi-user CPM. (dual processor - 1 ea. 8085 and 1 ea. 8086.)
I was one of about five users; we each had a dumb terminal. Everybody used
WordStar (which actually was kinda pleasant to use), but it bogged down so
bad that the boss started calling it "WordHog."

Cheers!
Rich