how best to get electricity for emergency prepareness

A

A. Jacobs

Jan 1, 1970
0
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.
 
M

Mike Painter

Jan 1, 1970
0
A. Jacobs said:
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?

Not by a long shot. You don't need 90% of the lights you have.
small LED lights, possibly of the shake kind, are the best choice.
Use them sparingly. You will find, as I did in the first few days of living
for a year on a beach in Baja with no electricity that you don't have a
great need for them. You can usually see well enough at night to find the
bathroom and you go to bed when it gets dark and get up at first light.
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
A solar panel will do for charging a cell phone.
I'm not sure what kind of a disaster you are planning for but you are not
likely to have *any* phone service in a real emergency.
3. laptop computer battery charging
Why?
If it's a disaster you will not need it.
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV
tuner for the laptop computer
Radio.
You don't need a TV and it is a drain on resources.
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.
MRE's and propane stoves.
A microwave is a drain on resources.
How can we get power source from - car battery?
NO. The car should be kept prepared for leaving the area if safe.
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?
NO. This is a waste of power. Most of the energy in the generator is wasted
and you waste more in charging, then you waste more using the battery.

A small gas powered generator *IF* you have a large supply of fuel would do
no harm but it is much more efficient to use the gas directly for cooking.
 
M

martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.
hmmm, posting this to an electronics NG.

Floods, quakes, hurricane, not exactly the same type of hazard,
utterly different requirments
Go Butane, keep a full 3Kg bottle(minimum), + 2 ring burner, + piezo
lighter
forget microwaves, for wimps. Solar panel possibly. Sound of a
generator could attract the wrong sort of attention.
I've got a 12v recreational battery thats charged once a month,

watch TV? I'd think there would be more things to worry about. Battery
am/fm radio. Cell phone, system will be down. land line as well.
Laptop, just back it up, it's disposable

deep freeze/fridge? get insurance (and read the small print) scan and
email your docs to yourself on yahoo/whatever server and dont delete
them, Get enough canned/dry food/rice/beans, enuff bottled water, med
supplies,

You left out air conditioning




martin
 
M

martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
What, pray tell, is "Punka Wallah" ?

...Jim Thompson
These inglish geezers.......


Prolly got it from the local Indian restaurant


martin
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello A. Jacobs,

Care to give us a first name?
When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?

We have a fluorescent "camping lamp" that takes 8 D cells or two 6V lamp
batteries. That goes a long way provided you stock enough D cells. Do
some math: You can find the current draw of the lamp either by the data
sheet or by measuring it (use an analog meter). Now go to the Duracell
site or another and check the mAh or Ah rating of the D cells. Now you
have a good clue of how many hours it will run.

We maintain at least a dozen flash lights as well. Not so efficient but
you don't want to have to drag the big lanterns everywhere.
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone

Keep one or better two plain old phones. Those that do not need a wall
wart to operate. Cell phone coverage may become spotty when power goes
for more than a few days because the cell sites may not have a generator.
3. laptop computer battery charging

Buy a car adaptor. Then you can charge from 12V.
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer

A small postcard size TV is much better. Uses less power. But a radio is
more important to us and a good one can run for days without a battery
change.
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

Huh? Forget the microwave, it's a power hog. Become proficient in using
the charcoal barbie. I find the Weber the most economical because it can
be shut down when done. So, effectively it only needs a few extra coals
per session. We can easily cook 20 dinners on a 20lbs bag. Learn how to
cook stuff like potatoes and vegetables. Heck, we even do a mean
Whiskey-Peppercorn sauce on it.
How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?

I believe Honda makes some.
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

For small stuff but not a microwave or a big TV. We have a 12V 18Ah
backup "suitcase" that has a 300W converter mounted to the side. It is
kept charged at all times. This has run the wood stove fans and a small
lamp for a few hours when the power went.
This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.

Fridges and stuff like that draw huge start-up current when the
compressor starts. I guess you'd need a huge generator for that and lots
of gas (which is dangerous to store). When we had a 24h plus outage here
we began cooking stuff on the barbeque. Some foods can be re-frozen
after cooking. We ate a lot of roasts and casseroles after that. If the
outage would last a lot longer we'd just throw a candle light party.

Best is to try to fake an outage. Pick a day and try to live through it
with zero electricity use. That's much easier learning than having to do
that when the electricity really goes and it happens to be pitch dark.

Then, make a solid plan and stick to it. The best awareness won't help
you if you find that you are down to the last three D cells and the
stores are all out of them or closed.

Regards, Joerg
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
In sci.electronics.design A. Jacobs said:
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone

Direct line phones don't use power, it comes along the line.
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.

The long pole in that tent is the microwave.
This will need at least 1300W or so, which is a not very small generator.
1) 20W (depending on the amount of lights of course)
2) 5W
3) 10-30W (for active laptop - you don't really want to charge the battery,
it's more efficient to run it from battery)
4) 5W

So, you're looking at maybe 55W.
Out of a 12V battery, through an inverter, that's maybe 5.5A.

You now want a small generator, with a large battery charger that can soak
up the entire output of the generator and stick it in the battery.
A 100Ah battery will let you run the other loads for about 16 hours (you
don't want to deep discharge it) and then run the generator for 2 hours
twice a day to charge the battery back up (250W of charging).

Size the generator so that when it runs, you can run refrigerators and
microwaves.

Also consider supplemental insulation for fridges and freezers.
4" of polystyrene around all but the heat exchanger coils can dramatically
reduce bills.
(Of course, you can get fundamentally efficient appliances too).

However, microwaves are a very inefficient way of heating food - you'd do
lots better to find some sort of stove that lets you use the fuel directly.

You get maybe 20% in the generator, and 50% in the microwave, for 10% of the
energy leaving as waste.

Of course, there are generators out there that can cope with throttling down
to very small loads, not horribly inefficiently.
Me, I'd prefer a setup with some redundancy.

Perhaps a cheap generator, a nice generator, and a spare inverter.
If the nice generator falls over, use the cheap one, ...
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
A. Jacobs said:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?

LED flashlights are about the best for light you turn on and off.

A "coleman" lamp (what the brits call a blow lamp) is a handy thing if you
need (not just want) a lot of light at night. The kind that bur white gas
will burn gasoline for a while before it gums up.
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone

A cell phone is likely to be useless but a solar charger is not hard to
find. One of the wind up radios has a cellphone charger output.
3. laptop computer battery charging

If you've got to, I'd suggest a solar charger for this too.
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer

A stand alone TV takes less power. See your local RV store.
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

A bar-b-q is what you really want. A microwave draws *way* too much
power.
How can we get power source from - car battery?

A car has a battery and power connections. Don't overlook it.
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?

Even the small ones aren't very small. If you have to get one, get one
that makes "mains power" and charges the battery.
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

Yes this is a good idea but don't plan on using it much. It runs the
battery down fast.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.

The food isn't spoiled on the first day. If you leave a freezer closed,
the food in it will keep for several days. After that, cook everything
and eat it. Over cooked meat will keep for a few days out in the open if
it is very dry.

You need a first aid kit.

Matches and lighter should be stored in various locations. Fire is a very
useful thing.

Keep some water in a large jug in some place strong.

Keep some booze on hand. It will kill the bugs in food and water.

Have a tool kit. Two is better. One kit in the car and one in the house
insures that there is one near you most of the time.

Women (and men) should keep some walking shoes in the car. If you are at
work when it happens you may have a long walk.
 
K

Kurt Ullman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
A small postcard size TV is much better. Uses less power. But a radio is
more important to us and a good one can run for days without a battery
change.

You can get both radios and flashlights that "wind up" and
provider their own power. Probably the best, although I think they
are pricey.
 
J

John P Vassel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any and all of my backup equipment is 12VDC compatible.
That way I already have 3 large generators in the driveway for
supplemental power. I also have a few banks of 12vdc batts, available
for emergency lighting and radio power.
I have a solar charger for one of the small banks of batteries. It puts
out more than my radio draws, so it'll recharge easily any night usage.
The laptop tuner is highly inefficient. Radio, or I have a 5 inch b&w tv
that switches to radio. I also have a radio that uses AA cells, and a
large supply of them.
Propane stove, or grill, or both are handy. And consider an adaptor to
allow you to use your 20lb bbq grille tank on the smaller propane
applicances. We also have small propane heaters, the type that burn with
very low or no Carbon monoxide output. Which brings up a point,
regardless of temperatures or ease of use, avoid putting any generator
indoors, or where it may vent into a living area.
For lighting, LED's are great, last forever on a set of batteries.
A few of the el cheapo dynamo style radios have LED lights in them, and
these radios can recharge their internal cells by hand winding them.
Water...not just for drinking. Toilets dont flush without it, and it's
one of those creature comfort things that can make tolerating a
situation much easier.
I once lived at the end of the power lines, last one to get restored in
a failure. When we knew a winter storm was coming, the tub, sinks, and
everything we could find got filled with water..(Wells dont work without
power, and it takes a LOT of power to pump a well)
As far as the cellphone goes, on top of what we already use daily, I
keep an old flip style analog phone handy too. Much more likely to find
a fallback analog system working than someone elses to roam on. This is,
however, not as common as it used to be.
Canned food, ramen noodles, etc.. will help in such a time too.

john
 
F

Fritz Schlunder

Jan 1, 1970
0
A. Jacobs said:
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.


Your responders so far seem a bit too much upstanding citizens to have
mentioned a decent gun with lots of ammo. In a true disaster situation a
gun with ammo would be far more valuable than any of the above mentioned
equipment and toys. With a gun you can take what you need, defend what you
have, and protect yourself against other armed looters/unsavory characters.
Depending upon your circumstances, you may want to organize and lead a gang
of other people in similarly dire circumstances as your own. A leader is
expected to be strong, and possessing a gun with the knowledge to use it
would surely help (along with natural and acquired leadership skills). A
well organized squad of armed guys is a far more formidable force than a
single person acting alone. Aside from being formidable, a team of guys can
actually do things, useful and productive things not normally possible for a
single individual. With good leadership and some decent creativity you can
really do pretty much anything, especially if the entire resources of a
whole city are available for looting. Realize that resorting to illegal
activity isn't likely truly necessary in most cases, there are usually many
ways to skin a cat.

That said, I would disagree with those who claim the microwave is a waste of
energy and it is better to just use the fuel for cooking directly.
Conventional BBQ grills and whatnot are horrendously inefficient in terms of
fuel use. Most of the heat ends up just getting wasted since the grill
isn't insulated, nor was it designed for efficiency. A microwave is very
nice since it directly concentrates all of the heat straight to the food.
Note that heating a meal up in a microwave will not cause your whole kitchen
to get hot, whereas heating that same meal with a conventional stove likely
will tangibly increase the ambient temperature. Granted a generator isn't
very efficient (20%???), but the microwave itself is quite efficient at
converting electrical to heat energy right at the food (70%???).
Additionally, if you tried to cook your food with something like gasoline
you are liable to inadvertently poison yourself. If you've got a propane
grill with fuel, I would use it, but if not, I would not try to improvise
with gasoline, I would use wood first. Gasoline is far to valuable as an
automobile and generator fuel anyway.

Also, I would suggest not drinking or consuming alcohol in your food if
things really are desperate. Alcohol is a powerful diuretic, it will
dehydrate you, thus wasting valuable potable water. Use high concentration
ethanol for cleaning and disinfecting things, but don't directly consume it.

In my mind, by far the most valuable "item" you can stockpile is
information/mental preparedness, not actual objects (such as the laptop
computer). Obviously some amount of potable water is indispensable, but
with enough information and creativity non-potable water can often be
converted into potable water, and besides, chances are you probably have a
decent amount of potable or semi-potable water already sitting around in
your water heater and toilet tank(s). Just don't squander invaluable and
irreplaceable resources in times of emergency.
 
B

Ban

Jan 1, 1970
0
martin said:
Sound of a
generator could attract the wrong sort of attention.

Most important seems to be a gun to protect yourself from your violent
neighbors.
watch TV? I'd think there would be more things to worry about. Battery
am/fm radio. Cell phone, system will be down. land line as well.
Laptop, just back it up, it's disposable

deep freeze/fridge? get insurance (and read the small print) scan and
email your docs to yourself on yahoo/whatever server and dont delete
them, Get enough canned/dry food/rice/beans, enuff bottled water, med
supplies,

You left out air conditioning

To counteract natural desasters you need to be fit. A couch potato will not
make it. Exersize, book some survival training course and do *not* watch
"Survivers" on TV. Be open and develop a friendship with your neighbors to
help each other in an emergency. Go out exploring your neighborhood on foot,
so you know every little pass around. Have an emergency packet ready, so you
can leave in time. Don't panic.
The OP seems to be either stupid or paranoid. Get a life, man!
 
R

Richard Crowley

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most important seems to be a gun to protect yourself
from your violent neighbors.
To counteract natural desasters you need to be fit. A
couch potato will not make it. Exersize, book some
survival training course and do *not* watch "Survivers"
on TV. Be open and develop a friendship with your
neighbors to help each other in an emergency.

The "friendship with your neighbors" and "gun to protect
yourself from your violent neighbors" seem contradictory.
But then I don't know your neighborhood :)

My community conducts regular formal classes for citizens
who form "Community Emergency Response Teams".
These are available in many communities across the US.
http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/CERT/
Go out exploring your neighborhood on foot, so you
know every little pass around. Have an emergency
packet ready, so you can leave in time. Don't panic.

There are lots of resources online with good information
about implementing emergency preparedness and local
response in your own neighborhood. Every family should
have a 72-hour kit and be personally responsible for their
own fate, at least until help can reach you in case of a
major disaster.

http://www.redcross.org/services/prepare/0,1082,0_239_,00.html
http://www.ready.gov/
many others...
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] (Ken Smith) wrote in

A cell phone is likely to be useless but a solar charger is not hard
to find. One of the wind up radios has a cellphone charger output.


After Hurricane Charlie,CP reception in my area was reduced but not totally
dead.(and the landlines still worked.) I found it useful to have a charging
cord for the 12V cig lighter in my car,it allowed me to keep the CP
charged.

I also rigged up two 12v fans scavenged from PC power supplies,used a 12v
gel cell from my electric scooter to run them,to give me some air
circulation at night,it made it much easier to sleep in 95 deg weather.

In addition,I had a 12v portable fluroescent lamp that takes 8 AA cells,the
kind meant for use in closets with no outlets,it has a jack for external
DC,I made up a cable to connect it to the gel-cell(20AH) for lighting.
The lamp is less than $10 USD at Wal-Mart or Lowes.

The power draw from the fans or light was negligible,easily lasted the
whole week I was without electricity.
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
...

The "friendship with your neighbors" and "gun to protect
yourself from your violent neighbors" seem contradictory.

Not really;One can be friends with neighbors,yet have violent neighbors.
Some people are only on the EDGE of civilization.Some people do not act
rational under a lot of stress.
But then I don't know your neighborhood :)

Well,looters are not going to loot their own neighborhoods,they will go
where there's lots of stuff for the taking,wealthier neighborhoods.
Then there's the opportunistic rapists and child molestors.

Police protection may be non-existent,or just unable to respond in time.

"better to have a gun and not need it,then to need a gun and not have one"
just like a fire extinguisher.
 
P

Pooh Bear

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
A small postcard size TV is much better. Uses less power. But a radio is
more important to us and a good one can run for days without a battery
change.

I agree that an LCD TV is the way to go but in the case of NO the transmitters
were out.

Radio is indeed much more valuable.

Do you guys in the US know about the clockwork radio ? Doesn't even need
batteries.

http://www.britannia.com/newsbits/radio.html


Graham
 
I

Ignoramus12753

Jan 1, 1970
0
We wish to prepare for emergency - such as power outage because of
earthquake or hurricane or flood.

When power goes out we want:
1. lighting - battery powered florescent lights seem to be best?
2. phone - charge cell phone battery and direct line phone
3. laptop computer battery charging
4. get to watch TV - may be off the air when cable goes out. So TV tuner for
the laptop computer
5. Microwave to cook simple stuff or boil water.

You forgot a few important things.

1. For those living in areas with cold winters, running a furnace is
of utmost importance (water pipes freezing damage, etc).

2. Running a sump pump. Without them, many homes would be flooded.

3. Refrigerators -- a lot of food can spoil (for those of us who do
not eat out).

Microwaves are a very high power demand load, but cooking can be done
without electricity, either using natural gas, or propane, or coleman
stoves.
How can we get power source from - car battery?
Any small and simple electric generator to charge the car battery?
12VDC to 115AC convert? 400 watt sufficient?

This is what we come up with in our meeting of brain storming.
The biggest discussion were about the spoiled food in refrigerators.
Your comments and suggestions please.

Emergency preparednes is not something that can be definitively
answered in a few posts. It also depends on your situation. For
instance, if you have an infant at home in Minnesota, you'd need to be
more prepared than if you were a lonely outdoorsman in Texas. Etc etc.

For myself, I have an Onan diesel generator that I bought from the
military and restored.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

With it, I could survive very long outages in relative comfort, using
it, say, 8 hours per day. It is not enough to run central A/C, but
that's fine with me, we have a window unit that we could use for one
room.

Batteries are a supplement to generators, but no more than that.

A decent inverter and a decent alternator can be a half decent answer
to emergency preparedness. I believe that you can buy a beefed up
alternator that is capable of more than just charging a car
battery. That way, you can use your car's engine as the prime mover
for the electrical generation component.

Having something is, also, usually better than having nothing. So, if,
say, you have an inverter based system and find that you cannot use
your microwave on it, but can use it to power your furnace at 0
degrees F, that could be a great help compared to having nothing at
all.

i
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
When power goes out we want:
Radio.
You don't need a TV and it is a drain on resources.
Mike Painter
Yup--and the lowest drain on resources:
http://www.google.com/images?q=crank+radio
...
...
A microwave is a drain on resources.
MRE's and propane stoves.
Yup. Others have mentioned white gas stoves and charcoal grills
and again I point to the lowest drain on resources:
http://www.google.com/images?q=solar-cooker+parabolic
...
...
I also like Joerg's suggestion of trying a day off the grid
to see what you really NEED.
 
I

Ignoramus26409

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well,looters are not going to loot their own neighborhoods,they go
where there's lots of stuff for the taking,wealthier neighborhoods.


That is not true. Looters loot and trash their own neighborhoods
first. Much was written about that, especially in regards to Rodney
King riots. Living far from ghettos is a great start. Hoping that
ghetto residents would loot somewhere else, and choosing to live
there, would be a poor choice.

i
 
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