Laminator for PCB's ?

[Sadlercomfort]

Hi Guys,

I need a laminator so i can transfer dry film to a copper clad PCB.
How do I know the laminator can fit the PCB?


Most laminators say the maximum pouch size is 250Microns (0.25mm).
But I need one that can fit a 1.5mm PCB

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Ash

 

[BobK]

I have modified two different laminators to do this. It never worked very well. I have gone to pre-sensitized boards, with good results. So my advice, don't waste your time.

Bob

 

[Sadlercomfort]

In what sense did you modify them? Can you modify a laminator to fit a 1.5cm pcb?

I like this method though since its cheaper

 

[BobK]

They were both flexible enough to take the pcb thickness. They were just standard laminators, but the rubber rollers were flexible enough to admit it.

The modification was to up the heat. The standard temp of laminators is not high enough for toner transfer. And to slow it down. I ran the motor for about 1/2 sec every several seconds to give it enough time in one pass. Otherwise you end up having to put it through about 20 times.

The toner transfer method is cheaper, but I never got it to work reliably enough. I do a 20 minute exposure with a little under the counter fluorescent, develop that for about a minute or 2 and it is ready to etch. I got much smaller traces to come out reliably this way.

Bob

 

[Bluejets]

Like most things of this nature, you are confined to what may have been "hacked" at some time or other.
Whether or not they work as claimed is really up to you to try it and see.
I do know one thing, and that is the HP laser printers seem to be one of the very few where the toner is re-fusable.
This is of course printing the circuit on "press-n-peel" paper or similar and then ironing or in this case, laminating onto the copper board.
One place from a couple of years ago, whether it still applies or not I am unsure but may be worth your reading.

https://ultrakeet.com.au/write-ups/superFuserV2

Scroll down the page for updated information.

 

[(*steve*)]

A colleague of mine had just completed building one of these.

Several observations from him:

1) the material is really easy to get creases in while laminating. His solution is to laminate vertically with rollers feeding the material to both sides.

2) Use the board soon after laminating. Whilst the film has a good shelf life, once laminated it needs to be used within a few days.

3) many cheap laminators only heat one roller and rely on thermal transfer through the material. His design uses 2 heated rollers for obvious reasons.

4) related to the one above, copper sucks the heat away from the rollers really fast. Changing the size of the board or its position relative to the temperature sensor can cause results to vary.

I'll see if I can get pictures if you're interested . He also may be using a different film. Does yours have a protective coating on both sides?

 

[Sadlercomfort]

I've been using dry film that's on a big roll, it has two protective layers on either side.

The Method I've Prepared:
1) Print PCB design on transparency -> Commercial printers/Laser printers
2) Clean the copper PCB with acetone
3) Remove one protective layer from the dry film and apply to copper PCB
4) Heat through laminator
5) Expose in UV light
6) Remove second protective layer from dry film
7) Develop with positive developer
8) Etch with ferric chloride
9) Clean off any remaining dry film with acetone
10)Soldermask? Not considered this yet.

I have a limited imagination Steve so I'm not sure what you meant by laminating vertically.
Yes, It would be beneficial to see some pictures!

So I need a laminator that:
1) Heats up to the required temp
2) Slow enough to allow heat transfer
3) Is spring-load so can accept 1.6mm boards

If I can find a spring loaded laminator initially, I can then attempt to modify the laminator.

Is it possible to get a spring-loaded pouch laminator rather than a heated roller?

 

[(*steve*)]

I'll try to get you pictures.

vertical means the board goes in the top with a thin edge facing downward. A bit like a toaster, except it doesn't pop it up

 

[Sadlercomfort]

I found this laminator in australia from BlueJets link:
http://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/lowell-laminator-a4-lool280

Sadly, It wont let me buy this from the UK. Not sure if this latest one is spring-loaded.

 

[(*steve*)]

I have one of those. There is a modification on the net describing how to use it to do toner transfer.

It does accept 1.6mm PCB material pretty easily.

Do you want me to send you one?

 

[Sadlercomfort]

That would be helpful Steve I'd really appreciate that, but are you sure you don't need it?

Would you like me to buy it from you and pay shipping?

 

[(*steve*)]

No, I meant I'll buy you one and send it to you. (I'm using mine

The freight is likely to cost multiple times more than the laminator. I can find out how much it would be if you're interested.

 

[skenn_ie]

3D printer with conductive epoxy, then plate ?
Inkjet with conductive ink, then plate ?
It would be fairly easy to include a narrow connection so that all tracks are connected, then sever the links after (electro)plating.
Plotter with dentists drill to rout ?

 

[boly]

I need a laminator [...] Any recommendations?

https://hackaday.io/project/3363-apache-al13p-laminator-one-pass-pcb-toner-xfer

http://randomactsoftech.com/the-blog/apache-al13p-laminator.html

 

[Sadlercomfort]

No, I meant I'll buy you one and send it to you. (I'm using mine

The freight is likely to cost multiple times more than the laminator. I can find out how much it would be if you're interested.

Glad that's been clarified..

Yes, please find out shipping costs.. the laminator is fairly cheap though.

I hope its not too expensive

 

[(*steve*)]

Yes, please find out shipping costs.

I'll find out as soon as possible. I have a number of things on today, so I may have to send my wife to the post office on Monday.

If you can PM me your address it will help.

 

[(*steve*)]

Actually, read this before you commit to anything.

 

[Sadlercomfort]

I found that there are similair laminators to the Lowell Lool280:

Cathedral:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cathedral...450787?hash=item567617ade3:g:LMoAAOSwwo1XdeEz

WHSmith:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WHSmith-A...038679?hash=item464efee657:g:1coAAOSwn8FXSBr1

I think it might be best to get one of these, incase something goes wrong and the tension spring has indeed been removed... there's an old second hand laminator that is on auction which is identical to Lowell.

 

[Canobi]

The ones to go for are "hot roll" laminators, the fundamental difference being that they heat the rollers internally which provides a much more efficient solution.

I have a GBC HeatSeal H312 which I got for cheap on ebay and the only mod I eventually made to it was to cut a part of the housing out to get better access to the rollers when making small boards.



In fact, I was curious to see how thin I could successfully make track widths using it for toner transfer before things went awry, so my last board had some .2mm traces on it which is as fine as I've gone so far:



(I have to turn the heat down for resist films)

 

[boly]

http://www.colorfoils.com/laminator-info.html

http://blog.kamilon.com/?p=120

http://huanda.en.alibaba.com/produc...hoto_laminating_machine_at_factory_price.html