NYT article on PV shortage

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wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
From the NYT, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/05/national/05solar.html

August 5, 2005
Shortages Stifle a Boom Time for the Solar Industry
By CHRIS DIXON

With a bill in California that aims to put solar power in half of new
homes within 13 years, and with installation incentives in the federal
energy legislation passed last week, the future of solar energy in the
United States would seem all the brighter. But the future may have to
wait, if only a little while.

American suppliers for the solar energy industry say that burgeoning
demand both domestically and overseas, a weak dollar and shortages of
raw material have created back orders of several months on
electricity-generating photovoltaic, or PV, panels.

"For all the years I've been doing this," said Daryl Dejoy, owner of a
solar installation company in Penobscot, Me., "I could get all the
solar panels in the world and no customers. Now I have all the
customers in the world and no product."

Executives of American solar manufacturers and industry groups say the
global solar market has grown roughly 40 percent annually in the last
five years, driven in large part by Germany. Under an incentive
program championed by that country's Green Party, German businesses
and individuals with solar equipment can sell power they create to
utilities at above-market rates. The utilities pass the excess cost on
to their customers.

"It's giving Germans a solid 15 to 20 percent return on equity," said
Rhone Resch, president of the Solar Energy Industries Association, the
trade group for the American solar industry. "You're seeing a lot of
companies in Germany start venture capital units based on solar farm
development. People are even putting panels up on barns."

Germany consumes 39 percent of all solar panels in the world, with
Japan next at 30 percent and the United States a distant third at 9
percent.

Germany installed nearly 400 megawatts of solar power last year, Mr.
Resch said, while Japan, whose government subsidizes solar energy
consumption, installed nearly 300 megawatts. Americans, with far less
in subsidies, installed 90 megawatts, most of it in California.

Japan had the greatest total solar power capacity by the end of 2004,
at 1,100 megawatts, followed by Germany, with 790 megawatts, and the
United States, with 730, said Noah Kaye, spokesman for the solar
energy association. The American figure was enough to power about
300,000 homes, however, some 120,000 more than in 2000.

Now the Million Solar Roofs legislation in California, passed by the
State Senate and under consideration in the Assembly, would subsidize
the installation of solar equipment with a goal of putting 3,000
megawatts of solar energy to work by 2018. Assessments on electricity
bills would pay for the subsidies.

California is among many states - New York, New Jersey and Connecticut
are others - that already provide subsidies to solar power users. But
the scope envisioned by the new California bill, whose enactment
appears likely, dwarfs all others.

In addition to the state efforts, the energy measure passed by
Congress last week offers a tax credit of up to $2,000 for homeowners
who install solar equipment.

But the shortage of solar panels has led to long waits and
inconvenience for many Americans who are ready to spend $10,000 to
$20,000 for residential solar power systems of 2,000 to 5,000 watts.
The shortage has been made worse because photovoltaic electricity is
used to power not only homes but also businesses, boats, recreational
vehicles, highway signs and cellphone towers.

Mr. Dejoy, of Penobscot Solar, said that for the nation's installers,
the situation was "brutal." Even orders that were paid for months ago,
he said, had no guaranteed date of delivery or even final price.
Recently, a customer who had agreed on an order of several thousand
watts balked when Mr. Dejoy told her that a panel supplier had
increased the price by a dollar a watt.

Matt Lugar, director of solar sales for the Sharp Electronics
Corporation's solar division, in Huntington Beach, Calif., said the
supply problems were "a natural evolution in any industry that's
exploding."

"There's a lot of panic among our customers who have been in solar for
a long time," Mr. Lugar said of the installers. "Prices are rising
dramatically. Unfortunately, it's the natural movement of supply and
demand."

Until early 2004, Mr. Lugar said, the price of solar panels was
dropping as technology advanced. Since then, manufacturers' prices
have risen as much as 15 percent, he said, adding that the purified
silicon at the heart of solar panels and computer semiconductors alike
had also been in extremely short supply.

Mr. Lugar said it was difficult to predict when the industry would be
able to meet demand, given a possibility of large subsidy increases in
Spain, Italy and Portugal.

But Mr. Kaye, of the Solar Energy Industries Association, said that
California's incentives could entice suppliers to increase production
for the domestic market.

And his boss, Mr. Resch, said the shortage of customary solar
resources provided an opportunity for producers of newer "thin film"
solar panels. These panels, which can be rolled up for portability or
installed on curved surfaces, are now produced in relatively small
quantities by several Silicon Valley manufacturers.

"The solar energy industry is diverse," Mr. Resch said, "and will meet
the challenges the market presents."

For now, solar installers like William Korthof of Pomona, Calif., can
only lament.

"We're getting unannounced price hikes from suppliers," Mr. Korthof
said, "and are seeing a complete inability to forecast when they can
ship us product. Last year I had waits of two weeks for panels. This
year it's two to three months."

Mr. Korthof said that his business, Energy Efficiency Solar, was
installing roughly 25 kilowatts of solar power a month for customers.
With a reliable supply, he said, he would be installing 50 or more.

Mike Dewalt, who lives outside Peoria, Ill., said he had waited three
weeks for a shipment of solar panels for his home. Several weeks
later, Mr. Dewalt said, the supplier told him that four more 120-watt
panels he wanted would be at least eight weeks in arriving, and that
payment would be required immediately.

Mr. Dewalt said that after calling Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, he
had his panels in a week. But Eric Phillips, general manager of that
business, said its waiting times had also lengthened.

"I'm probably taking 10 to 20 calls a day for modules I can't supply,"
Mr. Phillips said.

"Only three to four years ago, solar was a really hard sell - trying
to convince people to put a system on their home," he said. "These
days, we say, 'I can't get the kinds of numbers you need.' "
 
R

Richard P.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the interesting article. It's amazing to read about the efforts
done in other countries. It goes to show how far behind North America is on
PV based energy when compared to other countries such as those in Europe and
Japan. Critics here love to spin doctor the "expense" and all the other
BS-rhetoric about PV based energy systems all the while seemingly
progressive countries ignore it and push forward to mainstream this old
technology.

Sooner or later "we'll" catch up or learn from it....

..... I hope....
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard said:
Thanks for the interesting article. It's amazing to read about the efforts
done in other countries. It goes to show how far behind North America is on
PV based energy when compared to other countries such as those in Europe and
Japan. Critics here love to spin doctor the "expense" and all the other
BS-rhetoric about PV based energy systems all the while seemingly
progressive countries ignore it and push forward to mainstream this old
technology.

Sooner or later "we'll" catch up or learn from it....

.... I hope....

Don't hold your breath.

"American suppliers for the solar energy industry say that burgeoning
demand both domestically and overseas, a weak dollar and shortages of
raw material have created back orders of several months on
electricity-generating photovoltaic, or PV, panels."

This says, "shortages of raw material".

With silicon being one of the most, if not the the most common minierl
on earth where is the shortage?

The shortages are largely artificial. There are a number of reasons for
this.

One reason is that everyone is waiting for someone else to make the next
big break through.

Another reason is that someone is making money out of the situation now
and will try to keep making money for as long as they can.

Then there is the US govts head in the sand attitude towards energy. The
fact that the sand they have their head in is usually in someone else's
country is immaterial.

When it comes to other countries moving forward in solar. Well, this is
in large because they are not in a position to force other countries to
give them energy. So they are trying to free themselves as much as
possible from dependence on dwindling oil supplies.

The rising price per watt of solar can be linked directly to rebates.

This is what it sounds like in the board room; Hey, look the govt is
giving a rebate for people to put in solar power. We'll have it. Put the
price up.

Simple isn't it.

The sad thing is that while we piss about playing oil games China is
getting ready to eat us alive.
 
W

William P. N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
wmbjk said:

Thanks, Wayne! Perfect timing for the capacity crunch, as I was just
sitting down this morning to nail down the details on the system I'm
specifying. Grrr... Oh, well, conduit is my friend...
spend $10,000 to
$20,000 for residential solar power systems of 2,000 to 5,000 watts.

It's pretty scary to see the NYT quoting $4-$5/watt intalled, though
I'd like to beleive it! 8*)
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
BBB said:
One thing that the article does not make clear is that much of the demand is
pork-barrel driven. Few investors are willing to rely on the whims of
government funding, therefore manufacturers do not scale up to meet demand.

The reason that PV demand in Europe is so high is because gasoline is taxed
at $2/gallon. This creates an artificial demand for alternative energy.

Imagine we Europeans would waste fossile energy
as crazy as the US people.

This would increase demand for oil so much,
that the oil price would be already $100.

Imagine chinese people would waste oil
as crazy as US people.

This would increase demand for oil so much,
that the oil price would be already $200.
Since the demand is artificial, there is no incentive for investors to meet
the demand.

Oh You are a great beliver.
You belive in eternal oil ressources
You belive in cheap oil
You belive that the nearly $500 billion military budget of the US
has nothing to do with the cheap oil in US.
Maybe You belive even that Bush is a good president
 
J

John Beardmore

Jan 1, 1970
0
BBB <[email protected]> said:
One thing that the article does not make clear is that much of the demand is
pork-barrel driven.
Errr...


Few investors are willing to rely on the whims of
government funding, therefore manufacturers do not scale up to meet demand.

In some EU energy markets, e.g. wind, the whole development of the
market has been driven by government incentives. There simply isn't a
viable renewables market (yet) for things like wind without subsidy.

None the less, the development of a wind industry seems wise to provide
a more diverse range of energy sources, and to be more prepared when
fossil fuel prices rise.

The reason that PV demand in Europe is so high is because gasoline is taxed
at $2/gallon.

Tosh. At least until it's practical to run my car off PV electricity.

This creates an artificial demand for alternative energy.
Since the demand is artificial, there is no incentive for investors to meet
the demand.

No. Try living here and learning before you guess wildly. This has
about as much to do with the situation on the ground as errrr... pork
bellies...


J/.
 
L

Landline

Jan 1, 1970
0
George there is a terrible shortage of processed grown silicone
George if you have supplies of processed silicone for sale, I can assure you, just
contact me and I will take as much as you can supply.
Every month we are sold out of half the sizes of solar panels mainly due to
processed silicone shortage.
Don't worry about the US Gov, worry about the dumb stupid fools you have in
Australia for politicians.

In Australia we cancelled all our alternative energy research two years ago
Australia is a really Really REALLY smart country - NOT
Then to add insult to injury we went and put a 10% tax on all alternative energy
gear that used to be tax free -UNBELIEVABLY stupid

What do we make now in Australia for alternative energy - an apology for a solar
panel factory, some sub-standard regulators and a white elephant facility in
Adelaide supposedly doing something but you hear nothing.



|
| This says, "shortages of raw material".
|
| With silicon being one of the most, if not the the most common minierl
| on earth where is the shortage?
|
| The shortages are largely artificial. There are a number of reasons for
| this.
|
| One reason is that everyone is waiting for someone else to make the next
| big break through.
|
| Another reason is that someone is making money out of the situation now
| and will try to keep making money for as long as they can.
|
| Then there is the US govts head in the sand attitude towards energy. The
| fact that the sand they have their head in is usually in someone else's
| country is immaterial.
|
| When it comes to other countries moving forward in solar. Well, this is
| in large because they are not in a position to force other countries to
| give them energy. So they are trying to free themselves as much as
| possible from dependence on dwindling oil supplies.
|
| The rising price per watt of solar can be linked directly to rebates.
|
| This is what it sounds like in the board room; Hey, look the govt is
| giving a rebate for people to put in solar power. We'll have it. Put the
| price up.
|
| Simple isn't it.
|
| The sad thing is that while we piss about playing oil games China is
| getting ready to eat us alive.
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
In Australia we cancelled all our alternative energy research two years
ago
Australia is a really Really REALLY smart country - NOT
Then to add insult to injury we went and put a 10% tax on all alternative energy
gear that used to be tax free -UNBELIEVABLY stupid

Taxes against alternative energy ?!?

This is a heavy crime.

I think this politicans should face a tiral like
the German politicans after world war 2.

I think there could be discovered big corruption
from coal industry for Australian politicans.

I hope this criminals end in prison.
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
Few investors are willing to rely on the whims of
demand.

In some EU energy markets, e.g. wind, the whole development of the
market has been driven by government incentives. There simply isn't a
viable renewables market (yet) for things like wind without subsidy.

The US government subsidy the oil price with nearly
$500 billion military expenses
None the less, the development of a wind industry seems wise to provide
a more diverse range of energy sources, and to be more prepared when
fossil fuel prices rise.



Tosh. At least until it's practical to run my car off PV electricity.

gasoline is in Germany so expensive, that photovoltaic is alreday cheaper

A Peugeot 106 consumes in city traffic 8 litres
The electric version 18 kWh.
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Landline said:
George there is a terrible shortage of processed grown silicone
George if you have supplies of processed silicone for sale, I can assure you, just
contact me and I will take as much as you can supply.
Every month we are sold out of half the sizes of solar panels mainly due to
processed silicone shortage.
Don't worry about the US Gov, worry about the dumb stupid fools you have in
Australia for politicians.

In Australia we cancelled all our alternative energy research two years ago
Australia is a really Really REALLY smart country - NOT
Then to add insult to injury we went and put a 10% tax on all alternative energy
gear that used to be tax free -UNBELIEVABLY stupid

What do we make now in Australia for alternative energy - an apology for a solar
panel factory, some sub-standard regulators and a white elephant facility in
Adelaide supposedly doing something but you hear nothing.

Oh dear.

The article clearly states a shortage of raw material. This is a nonsense.

You say there is a shortage of processed silicon. There is a big
difference between the two. Why is there a shortage of processed silicon?

I already pointed out that there is more money in a shortage than in a
surplus. Just good business practice.

I didn't vote for Never Ever Johnny. Did you? He is a parrot for US
lies. A brown snout of epic proportions. GWB says jump and NE Johnny
jumps. But you can rest assured that the sacrifice of thousands of young
lives is worth it.

GST (get stuffed tax) will not add 10% to anything because other taxes
were removed. Ha! I had the argument with my tutor not six months after
the GST was introduced. He had no idea at all until I pointed out the
tax exemption on home power.

BP in OZ raised their prices not long after the national rebate was
introduced.

What it comes down to is that as far as the powers that be are concerned
solar power is great up to the point of people becoming free of free
of the grid.

Anyway thank you for your support of my points.
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
The article clearly states a shortage of raw material. This is a nonsense.

I have visited several fairs about photovoltaic in Germany.

The wavers will go down from 0,3mm to 0,1mm
with even higher efficiency

So 3 times more PV with the same amount of silicon
 
R

Richard P.

Jan 1, 1970
0
No kidding. They just bought a sizeable chunk of our natural gas and are
spending a billion or so to pipe it to the west coast of Canada. I read a
small blurb somewhere that the US State Department is freaked out by that.

"George Ghio"
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Could be. But it is also correct. When it comes to energy in the world
today the only question you need to ask is;

Where is the money?

At the moment the money is with OIL.
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
As it happens, Yes.
That is like saying water is the most abundant thing on earth, so why isn't
hydrogen cheap? Do you have a single clue about all the steps needed to go
from sand to the ultra-purified Silicon needed for cells?
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Windsun wrote:
Bla bla bla
ANY subsidy of any kind - whether it is for solar panels or dairy farm
milk - distorts the true market prices. We have been in the solar business
for almost 30 years, and have seen at least 3 of these "boom and bust"
cycles before, where large subsidies are introduced, then eliminated,
reduced, or scaled back. The problem with much of this large increase in
worldwide demand is that it is politically driven more than anything else -
and like all political things, can go away overnight with a change in
government or policy.

Which is the way money works. Funny that.
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
George Ghio said:
Could be. But it is also correct. When it comes to energy in the world
today the only question you need to ask is;

Where is the money?

At the moment the money is with OIL.

Oil is soon to expensive to use it any more

An economy depending on cheap oil will be crushed
by the high oil price

The more intelligent economies less dependent on oil
will flurish and prosper

What said Gorbatschow to Honecker?
"Who is to late will be punished by life"

Seems now the most oil dependent economy is the US
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.H. Allen said:

Silicon being one of the most, if not the the most common mineral on
earth Sort of says it all.
The short answer is that building new silicon feedstock plants is
financially risky -- they require huge amounts of capital and take close
to two years to build. As a result, new plants simply don't built unless
it's clear that silicon feedstock prices of $25-30/kg can be sustained
for awhile. Early in the decade, silicon feedstock prices were less than
$10/kg, and even though a silicon shortage was forecast for 2005 several
years ago, only a couple of small new plants will begin production this
year. The supply of silicon probably won't catch up with demand until
sometime in 2006 or 2007. Meanwhile, silicon prices have gone as high as
$80/kg on the spot market in the past 12 months.

One reason is that everyone is waiting for someone else to make the next
big break through. Therefore no new plants. A few years ago Sharp
virtually doubled their production. Where are Shell, BP et al.

All it takes is someone to do it. They, as you have pointed out, are not
interested.

So where is the money?
Not really. Perpetual shortages have a nasty tendency to put companies
out of business. More to the point, there's not a PV company on the
planet that would love to produce more modules. Selling 1000 MW at
$0.20/W profit is a lot more attractive than selling 100 MW at $1/W profit.

So why is no new plant being built? Because money is being made
somewhere else. That the energy companys are not interested in selling
you the means to disconnect from their supply could be the answer.
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roland said:
Oil is soon to expensive to use it any more

An economy depending on cheap oil will be crushed
by the high oil price

The more intelligent economies less dependent on oil
will flurish and prosper

What said Gorbatschow to Honecker?
"Who is to late will be punished by life"

Seems now the most oil dependent economy is the US
Look at it this way. If all (well most) transport runs on oil and the
price keeps going up are people going to stop driving tomorrow. OR will
they keep paying the price at the pump.
 
A

Anthony Matonak

Jan 1, 1970
0
George said:
Silicon being one of the most, if not the the most common mineral on
earth Sort of says it all.

Sometimes reporters skip important words and it makes what they
read, while perfectly understandable to most, sound like nonsense
to some. :)

I took that to mean the raw materials used to make PV, one of the
most critical being nearly pure silicon. While silicon mixtures are
very common on Earth, the pure stuff that is the raw material for
PV production is not. It's a raw material for production but not
a very "raw" material, if you get my meaning.

Anthony
 
P

Paul Ciszek

Jan 1, 1970
0
As it happens, Yes.

A: It makes a discussion impossible to read.

Q: Why is top-posting wrong?

Replying to George Ghio:

Then you would know that the PV industry, which does not *quite* require
the same quality of silicon as other solid state device manufacturers,
and cannot afford to pay anywhere near the price of the best quality
silicon, is in a bit of a bind. While demand was low, rejects and
leftovers from the microprocessor industry were enough. Now, PV
manufacturers need far more cheap, second-rate silicon than they can
expect other manufacturers to produce as a byproduct.
 
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