Re: Strange problem with low energy light bulb

[Phil Allison]

"GPE".

I've had ones that I counted the lifespan in seconds. Burned out before I
got off the ladder when replacing them....

** Had one do just that on me recently - it lasted about 3 seconds.

Returned it to the store for replacement and the staffer moaned that I had
opened the packet !!

BTW

Be sure NEVER to put one in a socket that operates from a dimmer, no matter
that it may be kept set at maximum - it will still fry the CFL's
electronics.


See this page, about half way through, under "Normal" CFL Failure Modes.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm



......... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Phil Allison"

"GPE".
Be sure NEVER to put one in a socket that operates from a dimmer, no
matter that it may be kept set at maximum - it will still fry the CFL's
electronics.


See this page, about half way through, under "Normal" CFL Failure Modes.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

** Also see pic of scope trace of incredibly spiky AC current draw -
figure 12 near the end of the page.




......... Phil

 

[Eeyore]

I've had ones that I counted the lifespan in seconds. Burned out before I
got off the ladder when replacing them....

That's certainly never happned to me. Were they 'off-brand' cheapies by any
chance.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

And what if they are repacked in a remote corner
of your country.
We have had that done to real DUTCH apples, from
Italy ect.
And your supplying country from the east is quite
willing to put any text on the device and package......

You're talking about something not at all related to CFLs here though.

Graham

 

[Sjouke Burry]

You're talking about something not at all related to CFLs here though.

Graham

No, it was about reliable labeling, and how much
trust you can put into that, as the country it
was produced in....

 

[Eeyore]

No, it was about reliable labeling, and how much
trust you can put into that, as the country it
was produced in....

I suppose one approach is to believe nothing.

Graham

 

[Steve Urbach]

Most of the CFL's I have installed make it to 9000 hours.
I mark the "in service" date on the base body. I have a few lamps that run
24/7 that repeatedly make it to rated time.
I have also had a number of DOA's (dead from the start) and a number that
failed in the first 30 days. Note: in all cases, CFL's were installed in open
fixtures and NOT on dimmers (or electronic timers).
Some long service time failures were spectacular (lots of smoke).

Non-CFL (AKA regular fluorescent) have starter failures that are more frequent
than CFL failures. These lamps are in locations that are not suitable for CFL
(Closed fixtures, High/low temperatures) , Yard lights, Bathroom fan and
Attic crawl spaces.

 

[Steve Urbach]

Was that a Lights of America product? I have noticed a lot of
complaints about them. A few are for making products that require
proprietary bulbs that they since discontinued. More are for
life/reliability issues and for falling short of claimed light output.

I have had good luck with LOA and terrible longevity issues with Feit in the
same service location.

 

[clifto]

I have had good luck with LOA and terrible longevity issues with Feit in the
same service location.

So far I've had nothing but Feit 23W CFLs and I'm averaging 2-1/2 years on
a bulb. Don't think any lasted less than two years.

 

[Mr.T]

The years depend on hours use per day of course but I have some that are used a
lot of the time (hall lighting for example) and I've had several years use from
them. Maybe around 3 years.

Which is still a hell of a lot less than I get from standard fluoro tubes.
And I think my observations are more directly comparable for my
applications.
You can use whatever works for you.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

I see 1710, 1730 and 1750 on packages having "standard" incandescents,
as low as 1670 for 750 hour soft white.

The lowest wattage CFLs I have seen produce 1700-plus lumens are the
Philips 25 watt SLS (1750 lumens) and 26 watt spirals.

But even then not for their full life expectency unfortunately.

30 watt spirals - 100 watts after aging or when temperature is non-optimum

And they seem to be both hard to obtain, and expensive. And since the
wattage is approx 1/3rd, the savings are less than claimed.

That is for 3 hours per start in a 25 degree C ambient. This is the
actual industry standard for fluorescents. I think that a more
appropriate one for incandescent-replacement CFLs should be 1 hour per
start in a 40 degree C ambient.

40degC ambient???
Is that how you get the claimed life expectency, no wonder I never do.

Meanwhile, I do have CFLs normally last a few thousand hours.

And I still dream of even getting that much. I guess it will happen one day.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

The standard ones are superior. CFLs are mainly for retrofitting
incandescent fixtures or for use in small fixtures of size like that of
incandescent fixtures.

Small size standard tubes have been available for decades.
The cost of replacing fittings is worth it IME.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

Most of the CFL's I have installed make it to 9000 hours.
I mark the "in service" date on the base body. I have a few lamps that run
24/7 that repeatedly make it to rated time.

With people running lamps 24/7, no wonder we have an energy problem.
Domestic houses don't require permanant emegency lighting in Australia.
And if that's how you get a CFL to last, then there are no power savings to
be had.

I have also had a number of DOA's (dead from the start) and a number that
failed in the first 30 days.

My experience too.

Note: in all cases, CFL's were installed in open
fixtures and NOT on dimmers (or electronic timers).
Some long service time failures were spectacular (lots of smoke).

And fires have been caused by them as well. A real worry for those 24/7
lamps.

Non-CFL (AKA regular fluorescent) have starter failures that are more frequent
than CFL failures.

Certainly not IME. I've had some non electronic starters last over 20 years!

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

In fact it only takes half the people to be fooled, and no real choice for
those who aren't.

In Australia too.

That's true Don, but be honest, how often do you look at such stuff ?

Every time in my case. Some Chinese stuff is excellent value for money
though.
What I avoid at all costs is Chinese shit pretending to be of higher quality
simply because it has a high price and well known brand name.
Sometimes the extra cost may buy better after sales service, but often not
even that!

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

I suppose one approach is to believe nothing.

Safest approach anyway, until you have sufficient evidence to convince you
one way or the other.

MrT

 

[Arfa Daily]

In fact it only takes half the people to be fooled, and no real choice for
those who aren't.


In Australia too.


Every time in my case. Some Chinese stuff is excellent value for money
though.
What I avoid at all costs is Chinese shit pretending to be of higher
quality
simply because it has a high price and well known brand name.
Sometimes the extra cost may buy better after sales service, but often not
even that!

MrT.

But that's the whole point, isn't it ? It's a judgement call, which we in
the electronics business, are better placed to make than the average Joe on
the street. As you rightly say, *some* Chinese-manufactured gear *does*
represent very good value for money - but it need not necessarily be 'cheap'
to fall into that category. It could be cheap and good or cheap and crap. Or
badged and cheap and good. Or badged and cheap and crap. Or any of the same
combinations but with "expensive" substituted for "cheap".

Just because it says "Made in China" on the pack, that doesn't automatically
make it crap. By the same token, just because it says "Philips" or "Osram"
on the pack, that doesn't necessarily make it good. Saying both on the
pack - well, what *can* you say ?

Maybe, it's not even a make-able judgement call. Perhaps it's just a lottery
....

Arfa

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Steve Urbach" wrote ...

Most of the CFL's I have installed make it to 9000 hours.
I mark the "in service" date on the base body. I have a
few lamps that run 24/7 that repeatedly make it to rated time.

That seems consistent with the theory that you get a
(much) longer life expectancy out of them when run
continuously vs. on-off.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

There are places you really want to keep incandescent bulbs. I use one
in the lavatory, because generally at night the light will only be on
for a few seconds - nothing like long enough for a CFL to reach its
proper brightness. Also in the main living rooms I have tried CFLs and
rejected them because the light they give is just too unpleasant to
live with. I use CFLs in the hallway and on the upstairs landing. That
will do.

I have a lot of lights on my property on motion sensors that won't
work with CFL. They were installed for convenience but they are
lifesavers, now that I'm 100% disabled.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

And the relevence to the current discussion is ..... ????????

MrT.

The group that its posted to: sci.engr.television.advanced

"I pity the fool who can't follow a thread!"


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[[email protected]]

I suppose one approach is to believe nothing.

That would be a good start. Our household is now over 90% PL or CFL.
The oldest in place is coming up 9 years old and is on our back-porch
fixture. Yeah, it takes a few seconds to warm up at 0F, but on-average
it gets about six (6) hours a week of consistent use. So, 52 x 9 x 6 =
2808 worth of use, so far. If first-cost was $15.00 (as I remember, it
was less on a GE promotion at the time) and electricity averaged
$0.135/kwh, vs. 3.75 100-watt incandescents at $0.59 each, I will
have saved as follows:

$2.22 + (2808 x 0.135 x 100/1000) = $40.13 for Incandescent.

15 + (2808 x 0.135 x 28/1000) = $25.62

Even neglecting the cost of 3.75 lamps that still is considerable
savings. Of the very many in our house, only one (1) has failed
prematurely... ever, actually. And that one was replaced immediately
by my supplier. None have blown up, given up their magic smoke or
otherwise been bad tenants. The single side issue is that they do
interfere somewhat with fringe AM radio... but not my Part 15
transmitter or anything on AM.

We did try a couple of the dimmable PL-types, but they do not look so
good in a crystal chandelier. I am sure that will change in time. But
they did work just fine.

I am personally not terribly happy about 'excessive' government
regulation, excepting that it has given us (here in the US) clean
water, much cleaner air, much safer cars, better drugs (in general),
and a few other benefits such that we all pretty much live better for
it. The brute fact of the matter is that many must be dragged kicking
and screaming to learning and knowledge... and live in a near-constant
state of denial as long as their personal space is not affected. Since
it is manifest that the average human being would like-as-not even
wipe his/her own butt were it not for social consequences, the sad
result is regulation of what should be within the general condition of
that rarest of all commodities: Common Sense.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA