Silly resistor values

Joerg · Jul 10, 2009

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

Only if you are making a million pieces and were stupid enough to buy at
per piece prices.

I was talking about _specialty_ resistors, not run of the mill stuff.
You may not have been involved in cost critical designs but many of us
must occasionally turn every penny on a design.

For anything less than 100 units, the difference is not that great, and
I would much rather stock my proto shop with 1% reels than 5% or jeez...
you said 10%.

Sorry, but you cannot even find 10% resistors in axial, much less SMD.

Huh? One example out of a bazillion:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhlCB8CTbT5MY5WW0CSN/e0p2G/HIPcds=

If the link breaks it's Vishay P/N VR25000002005KA100. And there's more
where that came from ;-)

1% is also the most commonly purchased in short qty as well, so you are
going to find 100 pc bags at a cheaper rate than the "cheaper" resistor
because they charge more if they have to pop open a new spool just to
give you your 45 pcs of a resistor nobody else ever orders in popcorn
quantities.

Hint: Occasionally it is very educational to open a rock-bottom priced
gizmo with a phenolic board in there and take a look what's on that
board. You'll be surprised.

Jim Thompson · Jul 10, 2009

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

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Joerg · Jul 10, 2009

Raveninghorde said:
Yeah, low voltage cut off point for a battery. 1.05V or 0.95V per cell
wouldn't make any difference.

Left Uni in 1975 and spent my early years at STC working on high rel
amplifiers to pop at the bottom of the ocean for telephone systems
such as TAT-7. I've run my own electronics company since 79.

TAT-7 sounds like an interesting project, good old coax. Are you doing a
lot of fiber-optics stuff nowadays?

I prefer to think production. Too many different values is a
nuiscence. If I had designed it and need 332k I wold have used 330k
and 2k in series, standard values already in the system.

I would flag that in a design review. 330K is not part of the E96
series, 332K is.

Baron · Jul 10, 2009

Benj said:
Well you sure don't have a proper "big company attitude" yet, do you?
Where do you suppose all those transistor types came from or all those
tube numbers before that? Why use a standard ANYTHING when you can
change whatever it is just enough that the standard one won't work in
your product anymore and force everyone to come to you for the parts
(with you setting the price, natch).

The idea is always use custom components that are given company part
numbers even when they are standard parts! All parts should always be
referred to on schematics by ONLY a company part number. The link
between any E24 resistors and the company part number (parts should
ONLY bear a part number, never anything else that may give away what
it actually is) should only be found in highly confidential part
specifications indexed only by part numbers and not distributed to
anyone in or outside the company. This secrecy outside the company is
called "extra profit" and inside the company it's called "job
security".

I hope you finally start to get it.

I smell Mickysoft tactics !

Tim Williams · Jul 10, 2009

Baron said:
I smell Mickysoft tactics !

Tektronix has done that forever. They have internal part numbers for
transistors, diodes, resistors, etc. At least they list equivalents where
possible though (e.g., 2N3904).

I suppose Tektronix is the electronic Microsoft: dominated the quality
market for a while, then sold out to crummy equipment and products? ;-)

Tim

life imitates life · Jul 11, 2009

Yeah, low voltage cut off point for a battery. 1.05V or 0.95V per cell
wouldn't make any difference.

No. That is not the reason.

Left Uni in 1975 and spent my early years at STC working on high rel
amplifiers to pop at the bottom of the ocean for telephone systems
such as TAT-7. I've run my own electronics company since 79.

Yet you have no understanding of decades and why the values are what
they are.

I prefer to think production.

I have been working in the industry for 35 years. I do not think that
ANY resistor value hinders ANYONE in both manufacturing or design.

Anyone that does have a problem with something so petty should not be
working in the industry, much less in a design capacity.

Too many different values is a
nuiscence.

No. An abject idiot, however, IS a nuisance.

If I had designed it and need 332k I wold have used 330k
and 2k in series,

Which costs more, uses up more precious PCB real estate, and is MORE
DIFFICULT to implement. Combining parts to create a value of resistance
when a single part is available is an order of magnitude more stupid.

standard values already in the system.

Your company's lethargic, poorly stocked "system"?

The 'standard values' ARE in "the system" The system that the entire
rest of the world uses. D'oh!

I suggest you modify your "system" as well as your mindset.

You are only making things more difficult for yourself, trying to
re-think what the entire industry has already hashed over to oblivion
will not get you there.

life imitates life · Jul 11, 2009

Syd *does* some fine documentation..

He listed tolerances for the mil parts, but left out the tempco's?

Oh, and there are 6 band striped axial parts out there as well.

life imitates life · Jul 11, 2009

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

I was talking about _specialty_ resistors, not run of the mill stuff.
You may not have been involved in cost critical designs but many of us
must occasionally turn every penny on a design.

Huh? One example out of a bazillion:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhlCB8CTbT5MY5WW0CSN/e0p2G/HIPcds=

If the link breaks it's Vishay P/N VR25000002005KA100. And there's more
where that came from ;-)

Wink all you want, dumbass. That is a multi-megohm part. It is also a
bulk form power resistor. In fact ALL of them are either high voltage or
power resistors.

Now go find standard values and standard packaging, like SMT that are
less than 1Mohm. You know... part that we all DO use, not some obscure
crap (which I already was aware of).

Get back to me when you find even one.

Hint: Occasionally it is very educational to open a rock-bottom priced
gizmo with a phenolic board in there and take a look what's on that
board. You'll be surprised.

Utter nonsense.

scorpius · Jul 11, 2009

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

Click to expand...

[snip]

Pay attention, Joerg... you're debating NymNoNuts.

...Jim Thompson

Better than acting like a jackass by discussing trolldom with a trollish
retard like you, jerk.

RoyLFuchs · Jul 11, 2009

I smell Mickysoft tactics !

I see a Usenet retard. Again.

The electronics industry was around a lot earlier than Billy was, and
it is not a tactic, you stupid twit. Engineering drove manufacturing,
not some greedy bean counting twit, which is about all you would rate.

The space for the exclamation finalizes the retard moniker you now have
tagged onto yourself.

Good job, typical MS hating retarded asswipe.

RoyLFuchs · Jul 11, 2009

Tektronix has done that forever. They have internal part numbers for
transistors, diodes, resistors, etc. At least they list equivalents where
possible though (e.g., 2N3904).

I suppose Tektronix is the electronic Microsoft: dominated the quality
market for a while, then sold out to crummy equipment and products? ;-)

Tim

I think you are both idiots for giving it such a retarded analysis.

RoyLFuchs · Jul 11, 2009

In some cases (ICs and hybrids in particular) these were custom-fabbed
Tektronix-specific parts.

In others, I believe that they were specially tested or selected by or
for Tek - e.g. transistors binned for specific beta ranges or noise
levels, etc.

Some of the Tek schematics I've seen, indicate that certain resistors
were selected on a per-device basis... in effect, per-oscilloscope
trim parts.

Back then, the industry was younger and precision was a little less in
focus. So Tek would have had a LOT of custom manufactured parts, and a
lot of what is made custom is responsible for many of the innovations in
manufacturing we currently enjoy.

You MS hating retards are so funny to watch writhe.

Joerg · Jul 11, 2009

life said:
Wink all you want, dumbass. That is a multi-megohm part. It is also a
bulk form power resistor. In fact ALL of them are either high voltage or
power resistors.

A 1/4 watt resistor is a "bulk form power resistor"? ROFL!

http://www.vishay.com/docs/28732/vr25.pdf

Now go find standard values and standard packaging, like SMT that are
less than 1Mohm. You know... part that we all DO use, not some obscure
crap (which I already was aware of).

Get back to me when you find even one.

You wrote, quote "but you cannot even find 10% resistors in axial", and
I found you one.

Utter nonsense.

Have you ever opened such stuff? Like X-10 modules, toys, remotes, cheap
radio controls? I guess not ...

Joerg · Jul 11, 2009

life said:
Wink all you want, dumbass. That is a multi-megohm part. It is also a
bulk form power resistor. In fact ALL of them are either high voltage or
power resistors.

Now go find standard values and standard packaging, like SMT that are
less than 1Mohm. You know... part that we all DO use, not some obscure
crap (which I already was aware of).

Question: did you even bother to look around? This whole series comes in
10% if you need cheap:

http://www.seielect.com/Catalog/SEI-rpc.pdf

Get back to me when you find even one.

So, there

What's next? That it must be RoHS? Rest assured, they are.

krw · Jul 11, 2009

life imitates life wrote:
and 5% or 10% really makes a
difference in cost.

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

Click to expand...

[snip]

Pay attention, Joerg... you're debating NymNoNuts.

...Jim Thompson

Click to expand...

Better than acting like a jackass by discussing trolldom with a trollish
retard like you, jerk.

Been raiding mommy's hamper again DimBulb?

Jim Thompson · Jul 11, 2009

life imitates life wrote:
and 5% or 10% really makes a
difference in cost.

Please don't quote out of context. This may be why you did not
understand what I wrote.

[snip]

Pay attention, Joerg... you're debating NymNoNuts.

...Jim Thompson

Click to expand...

Better than acting like a jackass by discussing trolldom with a trollish
retard like you, jerk.

Click to expand...

Been raiding mommy's hamper again DimBulb?

Sucking on "rags" ?

480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Postings via gmail, yahoo, hotmail, aioe, uar or googlegroups, and
troll feeders, are now automatically kill-filed using Agent v5.0

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life imitates life · Jul 11, 2009

A 1/4 watt resistor is a "bulk form power resistor"? ROFL!

No, idiot. The one you posted a link to was a 5 watt power resistor.

http://www.vishay.com/docs/28732/vr25.pdf

And, as I stated, it is a High Voltage Resistor.

You wrote, quote "but you cannot even find 10% resistors in axial", and
I found you one.

You did not read what I wrote. These are not standard, everyday parts,
they are purpose specific.

Have you ever opened such stuff? Like X-10 modules, toys, remotes, cheap
radio controls? I guess not ...

I know what it smells like when it burns (the PCB media), so that alone
should tell you enough. That memory originally dates back to the late
sixties. Of course subsequent events indicates further experience.

life imitates life · Jul 11, 2009

Question: did you even bother to look around?

Answer: I have some experience in electronics manufacturing, including
the use of bulk media (not count, material of construction) and high
voltage types of resistors. I have seen a large array of what can be
expected in resistors. I am sure there are those I have not seen.
I have seen resistors that stop trains.

This whole series comes in
10% if you need cheap:

http://www.seielect.com/Catalog/SEI-rpc.pdf

They are not as cheap as you might think. Those are "pulse
withstanding" thick film devices, and I'll bet that they ALL cost more
then the std Vishay stuff in the local catalogues.

So, there

So, maybe you should look closer... and again.

What's next? That it must be RoHS? Rest assured, they are.

Piss on RoHS, I am exempt. I don' need no stinkin' compliance badges...

Raveninghorde · Jul 11, 2009

TAT-7 sounds like an interesting project, good old coax. Are you doing a
lot of fiber-optics stuff nowadays?

I left that world behind when I left STC. I never got involved with
fibre though STC were working on it.

The high rel requirement led to conservative design approaches. PCBs
were only just being introduced in 1976, everything before then was
made on custom tag boards with tags mounted on perspex. The fear was
that chemicals could leach out of the pcbs over 25 years in a sealed
environment and lead to corrosion and failure. Even the resistors were
unmarked so that the paint dyes could not leach out.

I would flag that in a design review. 330K is not part of the E96
series, 332K is.

Looking at the responses it is clear that E96 resistors are considered
standard in the US. In my experience that is not the case here in the
UK.

Fred Abse · Jul 11, 2009

Best is if the assembly guys get released part numbers and are never
allowed to switch types without at least a deviation signed by
engineering.

That's the way I've always done it.

Silly resistor values

Silly resistor values

Joerg

Jim Thompson

Joerg

Baron

Tim Williams

life imitates life

life imitates life

life imitates life

scorpius

RoyLFuchs

RoyLFuchs

RoyLFuchs

Joerg

Joerg

krw

Jim Thompson

life imitates life

life imitates life

Raveninghorde

Fred Abse

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