Silly resistor values

Archimedes' Lever · Jul 15, 2009

At our company, rudeness like yours would have you fired within a
month of hire; we just don't allow it. If you survived the interview
process, which is very unlikely.

John

The LarkinTard Chirps... again.

Archimedes' Lever · Jul 15, 2009

We can't export some equipment if it can make an edge that goes 0 to 5
volts in under 1 ns. There are jillions of gumdrop cmos parts that
will do that now, and you can buy them anywhere in the world, by the
reel.

John

It is not about the part, it is about the policies.

Archimedes' Lever · Jul 15, 2009

We just didn't have any unused kit tailings because there were no more kits.

We do not, nor cannot use a turnkey CM unless they are fully able to
replicate the exact BOM.

There are no savings to be found. Changes are not allowed.

Raveninghorde · Jul 16, 2009

That's the next problem. When I took over we abandoned this whole "idea"
of kitting (which I never understood). Migrated production to a Kanban
system. _Huge_ cost savings resulted, mostly by inventory reduction and
WIP reduction plus all the people that used to do the kitting all day
long could be assigned to other more productive jobs.

Seriously, every time I see kitting and other more archaic processes
happen in companies I politely suggest a visit to a Toyota plant or a
similar enterprise. Ok, requires a trip to Japan but for a company with
large scale production it is worth it.

Horses for courses. Kitting works for me in a small company with
common low cost parts bulk issued and living on the pick and place
machines.

My main customer moved to Kanban several years ago. We receive faxes
every Friday and despatch on the Monday. The customer keeps looking at
China for pcbs but China and Kanban don't mix unless they pay for DHL
every week. This week we shipped over 100kg (220 pounds) of boards,
that costs a lot on DHL.

krw · Jul 16, 2009

I guess I'm a little obsessive about bypasses - I've done prototypes
where I actually soldered the cap on the opposite side of the board
to the chip;

Where else would you put the decoupling cap? ...assuming you mean the
shortest ('Z') direction "other side".

the philosophy being that when it's laid out, I can
use wide (low inductance, well, lower than 1/2" of #30 wire!) traces
for the bypasses. Remember those sockets with the bypass cap built in?

Screw traces, use the planes. Though that gets tough when there are
10 power supplies in a widget. :-(

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Archimedes' Lever said:
We do not, nor cannot use a turnkey CM unless they are fully able to
replicate the exact BOM.

Our were able to do that. But even in the beginning where we did not yet
do turnkey we were still were fine. The CM got all the stuff, not
kitted, all of it. The remaining reels and bulk feeders were then sent
back and through a marking system it was made sure that those were used
first on the next round. Similar to what grocers call stock rotation.

Then we went to leaving the stock in a controlled space at the CM. The
next step was full turn-key.

There are no savings to be found. Changes are not allowed.

Tons of savings in our case. The CM was not authorized to change
anything but could request changes. Changes then had to be accepted,
vetted and ECO'd by us or they wouldn't happen. Just like what the
Chinese CM did with my clients regarding going to 10% resistors, they
did not change but asked, which is perfect protocol.

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Raveninghorde said:
Horses for courses. Kitting works for me in a small company with
common low cost parts bulk issued and living on the pick and place
machines.

For small companies it can work. But only as long as no Goliath comes
along and eats your lunch.

My main customer moved to Kanban several years ago. We receive faxes
every Friday and despatch on the Monday. The customer keeps looking at
China for pcbs but China and Kanban don't mix unless they pay for DHL
every week. This week we shipped over 100kg (220 pounds) of boards,
that costs a lot on DHL.

I am not much of a believer in JIT between companies far apart. Seen too
much grief there. Trucker strikes and such. Kanban has to be implemented
carefully, not relying on long distance carriers for time-critical
deliveries. And the cost must be factored in. In our case it was only
about 15 miles but even there we made the transition to local stock
quite soon.

Archimedes' Lever · Jul 16, 2009

Our were able to do that. But even in the beginning where we did not yet
do turnkey we were still were fine. The CM got all the stuff, not
kitted, all of it. The remaining reels and bulk feeders were then sent
back and through a marking system it was made sure that those were used
first on the next round. Similar to what grocers call stock rotation.

That doesn't work when there are three different 0.01 parts, and one of
them is hi rel. There are reasons that the designs, and engineering
teams are segregated.

Then we went to leaving the stock in a controlled space at the CM. The
next step was full turn-key.

We do not make the numbers where turnkey would be of value.

Tons of savings in our case. The CM was not authorized to change
anything but could request changes. Changes then had to be accepted,
vetted and ECO'd by us or they wouldn't happen. Just like what the
Chinese CM did with my clients regarding going to 10% resistors, they
did not change but asked, which is perfect protocol.

Of course. I agree. Not all methodologies are the same,and yours is
fine in most cases.

Archimedes' Lever · Jul 16, 2009

RoyLFuchs

http://www.indopedia.org/Archimedes_Plutonium.html

Archimedes Plutonium
????????: - The Indological Knowledgebase

You're an idiot. Plutonium is a retard that posts in sci.physics.

An entirely different idiot, but you and he are in the same stupid
Usenet retard boat.

Eeyore · Jul 16, 2009

Joerg said:
Ouch, that sounds like a company that is seriously out of control. If
they wouldn't put proper procedures in place I would leave, or nowadays
terminate the consulting agreement.

I'm still in touch with their MD ( Managing Director ). I might just copy the above to
him ( with your permission ) as their antics ( amongst several others ) didn't exactly
help that company prosper.

Graham

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Archimedes' Lever said:
That doesn't work when there are three different 0.01 parts, and one of
them is hi rel. There are reasons that the designs, and engineering
teams are segregated.

I don't believe in segregation

Seriously, that chokes off synergy effects. Between the two divisions
that did electronics we were in each others offices all the time.

Having three different 0.01 parts is no problem. You must have a very
clear and concise numbering system which will then distinguish between
the hi-rel and the two others.

We do not make the numbers where turnkey would be of value.

If it's just 10-20 units/year then it wouldn't. But even in a case where
we made only 300-400 large systems per year turnkey did make sense, as
evidenced by the broad smile of the CFO when he presented the quarter's
manufacturing numbers. And this guy wasn't known for smiling a lot

[...]

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Eeyore said:
I'm still in touch with their MD ( Managing Director ). I might just copy the above to
him ( with your permission ) as their antics ( amongst several others ) didn't exactly
help that company prosper.

Sure, go ahead. Hopefully it helps to nudge them into the right
direction. When I do designs in my consulting office the first thing
that happens is the writing of a rather large text document. Then as I
go into the schematics all the component specs are added as I go. Never,
ever, as a hindsight project. It's always "write-as-you-go".

Rich Grise · Jul 16, 2009

Those were horrible. The only proper way was to have a full ground
plane. At my first employer I insisted on prototyping my stuff on a perf
board with a full ground plane. Everybody thought I was a bit too
paranoid about it. Then my board ran and others didn't until we squished
lots of 3M copper tape between sockets. Afterwards everybody used ground
plane perf board

My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

Thanks,
Rich

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Rich said:
My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Jim Thompson · Jul 16, 2009

Rich Grise wrote: [snip]

My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

Click to expand...

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Jim said:
Rich Grise wrote: [snip]

My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

Click to expand...

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Click to expand...

Nice! Just what I've been looking for my "G-jobs" ;-)

What's a G-job? "G" as in grunt work?

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Jim said:
Rich Grise wrote: [snip]

My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

Click to expand...

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Click to expand...

Nice! Just what I've been looking for my "G-jobs" ;-)

Oh, BTW, Digikey has it.

Jim Thompson · Jul 16, 2009

Jim said:
Jim said:

Rich Grise wrote: [snip]
My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Click to expand...

Nice! Just what I've been looking for my "G-jobs" ;-)

Click to expand...

What's a G-job? "G" as in grunt work?

Jim Thompson · Jul 16, 2009

Jim said:
Jim said:

Rich Grise wrote: [snip]
My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30

Click to expand...

Nice! Just what I've been looking for my "G-jobs" ;-)

Click to expand...

Oh, BTW, Digikey has it.

Joerg · Jul 16, 2009

Jim said:
Jim said:

Rich Grise wrote:
[snip]
My favorite perfboard was the Vectorbord 8813 or something like that -
pad-per-plated-thru-hole on one side, and "ground plane" (with a void
around each perf hole, so no shorts) on the other. I haven't been able
to find them on Vector's website. )-;

Maybe nobody prototypes by hand any more.

This may be your lucky day. I bought something like that a couple years
ago, but from Twin Industries. The CEO of that client was very surprised
they were still around because he remembered them from decades ago.

http://www.twinind.com/images/catalog/cat_pic_105.jpg

The others they make:

http://www.twinind.com/catalog.php?id=7#sc30
Nice! Just what I've been looking for my "G-jobs" ;-)

Click to expand...

What's a G-job? "G" as in grunt work?

Click to expand...

G-job is American vernacular for personal projects fudged on company
time:

Ok, I never did that ;-)

IR repeater.

It's _still_ not done? Man, don't make a science project out of it

I may have to whip up a new antenna mast amp this Saturday. Meanin' no
margaritas until I'm back off da ladder.

Silly resistor values

Silly resistor values

Archimedes' Lever

Archimedes' Lever

Archimedes' Lever

Raveninghorde

krw

Joerg

Joerg

Archimedes' Lever

Archimedes' Lever

Eeyore

Joerg

Joerg

Rich Grise

Joerg

Jim Thompson

Joerg

Joerg

Jim Thompson

Jim Thompson

Joerg

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