That state of metric conversion in the US

C

cameo

Jan 1, 1970
0

The other day I was cleaning out my garage and found a bunch of
non-metric wrenches and I was wondering if should get rid off them. So I
asked my mechanic if there were still cars coming out that needed the
non-metric tools. He said all cars he had seen lately were designed with
metric nuts and bolts. Well, at least that's a progress. But then, there
are still those non-metric dimensions as your links show because they
are probably aimed more for the public than engineers and mechanics.
 
M

Mark Zenier

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alaskans are like Texans, only more so.

Libertarian Socialists.

"We're living free in the wilderness. Now, where's my damn government
oil check?"

And they often fail to account for the amount of Federal money that went
into the infrastructure that let them move up there in the first place.

My favorite story: an Alaskan out somewhere on the Yukon River Delta
wanted to build a house and found the cheapest way to get the building
materials there was parcel post. So he mailed all of his concrete blocks
and stuff, making the postal service rent a barge at a cost of some tens of
thousands of dollar.

Mark Zenier [email protected]
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
cameo said:
I seem to remember that a few dacades ago (maybe in the '70s) there was
some kind of federal push to convert the country to the metric system by
a certain date that is already in the past. As it's painfully obvious by
now, not much came out of that initial excitement.

Why do you think it is that the US public so resistant to such a change
when the metric system is so much simpler? Much of the rest of the
industrialized world is already on the metric system and not following
their lead just impedes international commerce.
That "push" was the _second_ time / attempt.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
The FCC uses the metric system. I have a km/h scale on my speedometer.

They do and they don't. Sure the bands for amateur radio are all based
on metric (meters/centimeters - for example my radio does 6m, 1.25m, 2m
and 70cm bands. )
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
The other day I was cleaning out my garage and found a bunch of
non-metric wrenches and I was wondering if should get rid off them. So I
asked my mechanic if there were still cars coming out that needed the
non-metric tools. He said all cars he had seen lately were designed with
metric nuts and bolts. Well, at least that's a progress. But then, there
are still those non-metric dimensions as your links show because they
are probably aimed more for the public than engineers and mechanics.

I still have old stuff that SAE wrenches are good for, but everything
on cars seems to be metric these days with few exceptions. Some
dimensions in that Chevy are obviously hard metric (the bore and
stroke size of the smaller engine is 96/92mm). The larger engine is
mixed.. metric stroke and 4" bore.

It's a hassle to design solely in mm when tool and material sources
are largely from the US or made for US customers. More digits to enter
when machining* because Imperial tools are more available and cheaper,
less availability and sometimes higher cost of things like reamers,
etc. I don't mind 6-32 screws, for example, provided they make them
for me with Phillips heads (or Robertson or Torx). Flat blade
fasteners- ugh. The coarser thread compared to metric standard zips in
faster with the electric screwdriver.

Do any Euro socket sets use mm drives? All my tools use 1/4, 3/8, and
1/2" drives. It would be a total PITA if there were 6mm/10mm/12mm
drive sets (assuming they exist) in the same work area.

* For example, the standard edge finder I can buy easily/cheaply has a
0.2" diameter, so the offset is 0.1" from the edge of the work. (also
0.5" diamter). I can get metric end mills, but 0.25" diameter is
cheaper than 6mm. I can set the DRO to metric, but I'll have to offset
it by 2.54mm to get the edge, and 3.175mm to offset the tool radius.
vs. 0.1" and 0.125".



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
S

Sylvia Else

Jan 1, 1970
0
The US public rarely does any math that involves unit conversions. Two cups of
flour is easily doubled to four cups for a double batch. Feet and square feet is
about the most math that most people do. Imperial units work fine in daily life.

Here in Australia, where we've gone all metric already, I'm still
struggling with the concept of a metric pinch of salt.

Sylvia.
 
R

rickman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh no! Virtually the same problem that caused Air Canada's Flight 143
near-disaster in the '80s.

This is exactly why the US Navy still uses yards for all their ranging
measurements (at least the last I heard). They don't like it when
shells come down where they aren't expected and torpedoes come back to
sink the sub that launched it.
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do any Euro socket sets use mm drives? All my tools use 1/4, 3/8, and
1/2" drives. It would be a total PITA if there were 6mm/10mm/12mm
drive sets (assuming they exist) in the same work area.

sockets also come in 3/4" and 1" for larger problems.

I don't think metric sockets exist, although I did see some odd-ball
sockets with a hex drive, could have been 15mm or 1/2" - I didn't
investigate closely.
 
M

MrTallyman

Jan 1, 1970
0
They do and they don't. Sure the bands for amateur radio are all based
on metric (meters/centimeters - for example my radio does 6m, 1.25m, 2m
and 70cm bands. )
Has to do with how we generally describe the speed of light, and with
radio frequency wavelength.
 
M

MrTallyman

Jan 1, 1970
0
I still have old stuff that SAE wrenches are good for, but everything
on cars seems to be metric these days with few exceptions. Some
dimensions in that Chevy are obviously hard metric (the bore and
stroke size of the smaller engine is 96/92mm). The larger engine is
mixed.. metric stroke and 4" bore.

It's a hassle to design solely in mm when tool and material sources
are largely from the US or made for US customers. More digits to enter
when machining* because Imperial tools are more available and cheaper,
less availability and sometimes higher cost of things like reamers,
etc. I don't mind 6-32 screws, for example, provided they make them
for me with Phillips heads (or Robertson or Torx). Flat blade
fasteners- ugh. The coarser thread compared to metric standard zips in
faster with the electric screwdriver.

Do any Euro socket sets use mm drives? All my tools use 1/4, 3/8, and
1/2" drives. It would be a total PITA if there were 6mm/10mm/12mm
drive sets (assuming they exist) in the same work area.

* For example, the standard edge finder I can buy easily/cheaply has a
0.2" diameter, so the offset is 0.1" from the edge of the work. (also
0.5" diamter). I can get metric end mills, but 0.25" diameter is
cheaper than 6mm. I can set the DRO to metric, but I'll have to offset
it by 2.54mm to get the edge, and 3.175mm to offset the tool radius.
vs. 0.1" and 0.125".



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Vacuum tube socket layouts are now given in metric these days, but the
old US values are always on a fraction-of-an-inch figure, and often
included with the metric figure.
 
J

John S

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here in Australia, where we've gone all metric already, I'm still
struggling with the concept of a metric pinch of salt.

Sylvia.

And, it's no longer inch worm but 2.54 centimeter worm?
 
L

Lord Valve

Jan 1, 1970
0
cameo said:
I seem to remember that a few dacades ago (maybe in the '70s) there was
some kind of federal push to convert the country to the metric system by
a certain date that is already in the past. As it's painfully obvious by
now, not much came out of that initial excitement.

Why do you think it is that the US public so resistant to such a change
when the metric system is so much simpler? Much of the rest of the
industrialized world is already on the metric system and not following
their lead just impedes international commerce.

Time for some Golden Oldies:

From April 10, 2001 -

Lord Valve Speaketh:

The metric system, which was based on an arbitrary
measurement (one ten-millionth of the distance from
the equator to the North Pole along the longitude
line which runs near Dunkerque, France, or somesuch
nonsense) to begin with, is not inherently more precise
or accurate than any other system. The fact that the
international standard for the meter is now specified
as a certain number of wavelengths of a specific
frequency of light, or as the distance light travels
in 1/299,792,458 of a second,

[flash forward to today - I should have mentioned that
the second is also an arbitrary unit, no matter how
finely we can slice it with modern equipment...]

doesn't occlude the fact
that its genesis was as entirely arbitrary as the Old
English standard for the inch, which was "three barley-
corns, hard and dry." Its confusing array of suffixes
and prefixes is not easily memorized. And, contrary to
the general European perception, Americans are not
intimidated by it. It is taught in American schools.
I am equally comfortable with either system, which puts
me considerably ahead of most Europeans. I *prefer* to
buy my milk by the quart, my steak by the pound, and my
gasoline by the gallon. For eyeball purposes, the English
system beats the crap out of the metric system. In fact,
the only thing I can see about the metric system which
would make it more desirable than the English system is
that pecker-length sounds more impressive in centimeters.
This may have been the deciding factor for the French, who
invented it. I am, however, fond of using the phrase
"a metric shitload."

I think the entire world should convert to the Whitworth
system anyway. ;-)

Lord Valve

I specialize in top quality HAND SELECTED NOS and
current-production vacuum tubes for guitar and
bass amps. Good prices, fast service.

NBS Electronics, 230 South Broadway, Denver, CO 80209-1510
Phone orders/tech support after 1:30 PM Denver time at 303-778-1156

VISA - MASTERCARD

"I'm not an asshole, but I *play* one on the Internet." - Lord Valve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And this, from later in the same thread:

April 10, 2001

k said:
Isn't the Imperial system used by such
technically advanced nations such as Uganda??.
The proof of a systems validity is who uses it,
most scientists worldwide prefer to work in
metric units as it's a lot more useful.

I don't recall where I said differently.
However, it's still a preference, and
still arbitrary. Science can be done
with any measurement system.
I'd also like to point out American money
is a decimal currency, if Imperial was so good
you'd all be counting cash in guineas, pounds,
crowns, schillings and pennies.

An excellent and interesting system, with
broad historical traditions. And that's
"shillings." (Accuracy, wot?)
Finally not even the British who
originated the Imperial system use it anymore
with it's little gems like alcohol proof: 57%
is 100 English proof at which point alcohol
burns with a blue flame when mixed with
gunpowder. You'd have to be drunk to be mixing
alcohol with gunpowder and setting fire to it!!!

Ah, my very point...these things are *far*
more interesting than the dry, boring metric
shit...kilo-deci-centi-wank-wank-wank...bah!
Give me spans, fathoms, furlongs, leagues,
cubits, chaldrons, firkins, hogsheads! Pipes,
poles, puncheons and roods! Kilderkins and
knots! Ells, chains, hands and nails! Manly
measures for manly men! These are the things
of legend...the metric system is good for
little more than scaring children or putting
oneself to sleep. I resist the inroads the
colorless metric crap has made; give 'em
2.54 centimeters and they'll take 1.609
kilometers! (Barf.) 28.35 grams of prevention
are worth 0.454 kilograms of cure, I always
say. That's my story an' I'm a-stickin' to it.

Lord Valve

I specialize in top quality HAND SELECTED NOS and
current-production vacuum tubes for guitar and
bass amps. Good prices, fast service.

NBS Electronics, 230 South Broadway, Denver, CO 80209-1510
Phone orders/tech support after 1:30 PM Denver time at 303-778-1156

VISA - MASTERCARD

"Ninety percent of everything is CRAP." - Sturgeon's Law

-------------------------------------------------------------------

So there! ;-)

Lord Valve
Old
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
cameo said:
The other day I was cleaning out my garage and found a bunch of
non-metric wrenches and I was wondering if should get rid off them. So I
asked my mechanic if there were still cars coming out that needed the
non-metric tools. He said all cars he had seen lately were designed with
metric nuts and bolts. Well, at least that's a progress. But then, there
are still those non-metric dimensions as your links show because they
are probably aimed more for the public than engineers and mechanics.


Depends on the vehicle. IIRC a 9/16" socket wrench was needed to swap
some sort of stepper motor in a GMC Envoy. Wasn't very old, maybe 6-7 years.
 
M

MrTallyman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Depends on the vehicle. IIRC a 9/16" socket wrench was needed to swap
some sort of stepper motor in a GMC Envoy. Wasn't very old, maybe 6-7 years.


You're an idiot... quite old... Probably all your life.

More likely a 14mm.

So, you are too stupid to know (obviously)that some of the values match
up closely enough to substitute for each other.

US vehicles are metric. That includes General Motors Corporation, you
fucking idiot.
 
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