[Jim Thompson]

Let me tell you Martin, the lefties do have jobs, good
technology-driven capitalist jobs, and they're raising
more money from more donors than the bankrupt righties.

If the world was populated only with rightist weenies,
as Jim would prefer, I can tell you he'd not like it.

Bwahahahahahaha! Thanks, Win! I needed that laugh.

But I have to ask... where did you get that cockamamie idea about
donors? Righties are floating in money and lefties are trying to take
it. If you're drawing all your conclusions from the McCain
campaign... he deserves to lose.

...Jim Thompson

 

[John Larkin]

Let me tell you Martin, the lefties do have jobs, good
technology-driven capitalist jobs, and they're raising
more money from more donors than the bankrupt righties.

If the world was populated only with rightist weenies,
as Jim would prefer, I can tell you he'd not like it.

Read this,

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216

and get back to me.

John

 

[Martin Griffith]

Let me tell you Martin, the lefties do have jobs, good
technology-driven capitalist jobs, and they're raising
more money from more donors than the bankrupt righties.

If the world was populated only with rightist weenies,
as Jim would prefer, I can tell you he'd not like it.

The sad, but talented, Jim.
Blinkered, He Be, like that Carlin bloke said

"Everyone who drives faster than you do is a maniac, and everyone who
drives slower than you do is an idiot."

That is Jim


Martin

 

[[email protected]]

The sad, but talented, Jim.
Blinkered, He Be, like that Carlin bloke said

"Everyone who drives faster than you do is a maniac, and everyone who
drives slower than you do is an idiot."

That is Jim

Martin

So far I haven't seen a solution. How about we all go nuclear and run
about on electric trains.
I heard fusion power is getting there as well. Sooner or later there
will be no oil. It's nothing to do with being green, just finding what
to do when we run out. Of course the US will go on invading countries
that have oil reserves but even that has to end at some point.

 

[Nobody]

That is not the point, work out how much energy it takes to move say 1
ton of metal a 100Km, with all the normal losses, like traffic lights,
and going around bends in the road.

Much of the energy required for acceleration is recoverable upon
deceleration via regenerative braking. It's just a question of efficiency.

The inevitable losses are friction and air resistance, primarily the
latter, especially at high speeds. For stop-start urban driving, failure
to recover kinetic energy upon deceleration (i.e. lack of regenerative
braking) is a significant efficiency loss.

Realistically, we aren't going to see electric vehicles becoming
widespread until battery (or equivalent energy storage) technology
improves.

Taxis and buses are a different matter. For heavy use in an urban
environment, the efficiency gain from regenerative braking could make it
worthwhile developing the necessary infrastructure (i.e. places where you
can swap flat batteries for fully charged ones every couple of hours).

 

[[email protected]]

Much of the energy required for acceleration is recoverable upon
deceleration via regenerative braking. It's just a question of efficiency.

The inevitable losses are friction and air resistance, primarily the
latter, especially at high speeds. For stop-start urban driving, failure
to recover kinetic energy upon deceleration (i.e. lack of regenerative
braking) is a significant efficiency loss.

Realistically, we aren't going to see electric vehicles becoming
widespread until battery (or equivalent energy storage) technology
improves.

Taxis and buses are a different matter. For heavy use in an urban
environment, the efficiency gain from regenerative braking could make it
worthwhile developing the necessary infrastructure (i.e. places where you
can swap flat batteries for fully charged ones every couple of hours).

Well from what I have read they already are pretty good - 250 miles on
one charge. That's not bad. Better acceleration than a Porsche.

 

[Eeyore]

So far I haven't seen a solution. How about we all go nuclear and run
about on electric trains.

I suggest you look at the cost of laying railway lines.

Rail is utterly useless for flexible travel too. It's fine if you have 100s of thousand
who want to comute in a city and also for fast long distance city to city travel like
the French TGV that can compete with planes, but it's so, so inflexible.

Anyway, there's no shortage of energy.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Well from what I have read they already are pretty good - 250 miles on
one charge. That's not bad. Better acceleration than a Porsche.

Just because the Tesla allegedly has " better acceleration than a Porsche "
doesn't make it a useful car. It's a rich man's toy that's all. Gimmicks like
these don't help really.

Graham

 

[Guy Macon]

If they could recharge in 10 mins, the US power grid would burn out

To a first aproximation, given a large number of electric cars
on a power grid, the load on the power grid is almost the same
whether they recharge in ten minutes or ten hours. In the
later case, you have 60 times as many cars being recharged at
any given time, each of which is drawing 1/60th as much power.

Short recharge times would, however, have a large effect on the
time of day that the charging would take place. At ten hours
everyone will plug in when they get home. At ten minutes a
large number will try to recharge in the morning right before
leaving for work. And the grid has to be sized for peak load,
not average load...

Either way, I don't see the total capacity of the current power
grid being enough. Household nuclear reactors, anyone?

 

[Ross Herbert]

No.

This is another reason why hybrids make more sense.

Not so, according to this page
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3627

 

[default]

Is it not about time that we saw more hi spec electric cars on our
roads. I saw the Tesla Roadster and it outperforms a Ferarri on
acceleration but what of teh charging time. Can we now re-charge in
say 10 mins? The overnight charge is impractable unless the car is to
be used for short distances from home.

Tesla Roadster has a range of 250 miles and recharge time of 12 hours.
That is more than ample for most commutes.

Of course if you have the money for one, paying for gas ain't the
problem.

 

[Phil Allison]

"default"

Tesla Roadster has a range of 250 miles and recharge time of 12 hours.
That is more than ample for most commutes.

** The Roadster has a recharge time ( from dead flat ) of 3.5 hours -
according to the makers.

Only thing is, owners need to have a dedicated, 3 phase power outlet
available at home with a capacity of 15 kW - then it will costs about
$10 or so in electricity for a full recharge.


However ..............

- just load the boot (ie trunk in the USA) with a bunch of these babies
and get it done in only 1 minute !!!!!

http://www.dcviews.com/press/Toshiba-One-minute.htm


All you need is ** 3 megawatts ** capacity in the garage !!!!!

Circa 4500 amps per phase .




........ Phil

 

[J.A. Legris]

Ludicrous. Are you suggesting that, some Tuesday afternoon, the entire
population of Earth will simultaneously die from heat stroke?

Al Gore's been making $200,000 per lecture and burning vast amounts of
private-jet fuel in the process.

John

I am suggesting that energy woes and global warming are only the tip
of the iceberg. The effects of overpopulation are multifacetted and
are accelerating, while the efforts to control them are piecemeal and
largely symbolic. We cannot even get a law passed to ban plastic bags!

Al Gore's individual consumption is irrelevant if he can motivate
large numbers of people to reduce theirs. He's making a significant
contribution to the effort. What's yours?

Personally, I almost never use a car any more - I walk or take the
bus. I work at at home and I don't travel except for a vacation every
5 years or so. I also piss into a pot and flush it when it's full
(thereby cutting my water bill by 30%) and never water my
"lawn" (looks more like a wild grassland now). I got rid of the
central air-conditioner and put a fan in the attic instead (only 150
watts!).

But these too are just band-aid solutions - I still consume vast
amounts of energy each winter just to stay warm. The one real
contribution I've made is having no kids, whose benefits will grow
exponentially as each successive generation of my non-existent heirs
produce no offspring.

 

[MooseFET]

To a first aproximation, given a large number of electric cars
on a power grid, the load on the power grid is almost the same
whether they recharge in ten minutes or ten hours. In the
later case, you have 60 times as many cars being recharged at
any given time, each of which is drawing 1/60th as much power.

Short recharge times would, however, have a large effect on the
time of day that the charging would take place. At ten hours
everyone will plug in when they get home. At ten minutes a
large number will try to recharge in the morning right before
leaving for work. And the grid has to be sized for peak load,
not average load...

At 2 seconds, people will recharge it just before they set out. At
ten minutes, they will plug the charger in when they get how. Nobody
wants to wait an extra ten minutes before they start on their hour
long commute.

Either way, I don't see the total capacity of the current power
grid being enough. Household nuclear reactors, anyone?

The owners will get a better deal on the power if they let the power
company control the charging current. The feature will be built into
the charger and most people will use it.

 

[neon]

to the remark that the grid will burn out that is just plain ridiculous the USA canada and mexico is the grid not you local small town generationm station the worst that can happen a distribution local transfoemer will smoke. but that time contactor will open disconnecting from the grid. there is distribution an there is transmission.if you don't know the difference then don't remark on burn out.

 

[Eeyore]

Not so, according to this page
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3627

And a similar article thought it 'proved' even a Hummer was more green than a
Prius. A marketing company too, not scientific researchers.

I'll pass on that.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Tesla Roadster has a range of 250 miles and recharge time of 12 hours.
That is more than ample for most commutes.

The apparent absence of a roof renders it useless in the UK.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Tesla Roadster has a range of 250 miles and recharge time of 12 hours.
That is more than ample for most commutes.

It's price is very ample too. Consider the impact on the environment of
scrapping/recycling all those batteries every few years as well.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I don't travel except for a vacation every
5 years or so. I also piss into a pot and flush it when it's full

And this is exactly how the alleged 'greens' want us all to live.

Sad isn't it ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

The one real contribution I've made is having no kids, whose benefits will grow
exponentially as each successive generation of my non-existent heirs
produce no offspring.

I'm sure the presumably negative effect on the average IQ will be something the
greens will be very happy about. Idiots are easier for them to brainwash.

Graham