VGA to Sync on Green

HellasTechn

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with the circuit on and fed with 5V (from regulated PC power supply)

1. pin 11 of 74LS86 wihtout anything attached on it

2. pin 11 with the green from the VGA card attached on it

3. pin 11 with with the green from the VGA card and the RGB monitor attached on it
 

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HellasTechn

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This monitor used to be connected to an old PC that had a VGA card capable of outputing RGB with sync on green.

I will try to find it and take some Oscope pictures of the outputs.

Mabe we can figure out whas wrong by comparing.
 

HellasTechn

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I found the old PC but it is not working so i took the vga card and put it into my new PC.
Thank god windows 8 work fine with it.

Here is the Green composite output of the VGA card connected on the monitor.
 

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KrisBlueNZ

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That's very helpful. So it looks like the correct signal (post #23, image #1) is unipolar (doesn't go negative at all). Sync pulses are downwards to 0V, and the black level is around +0.3V. Peak brightness is about +0.9V.

The signal at pin 11 (post #21 image #1) also looks right. Negative-going composite sync.

The video signals from the VGA card (post #19 images #1~3) seem to have a black level at 0V and peak video around +1.0V.

So it should be possible to combine them but I'm not sure how.

Here's an idea you can try. Use a Schottky diode such as 1N5817, 1N5818, 1N5819, with a 100 µF electrolytic across it (positive to anode). Connect the cathode to the green video from the VGA card, and the anode to the green+sync output to the monitor. Also connect pin 11 directly to the green+sync output like in the schematic in post #10.

Actually the only change from the circuit in post #10 is the insertion of the Schottky diode and electrolytic (in parallel with the diode) between the green video from the VGA card and the green+sync output.

The Schottky diode should raise the DC voltage of the black level of the green video signal from 0V to about +0.3V to match the signal in post #23.

As for powering the circuit, you could use +5.0V from a 7805 regulator or a PC power supply. If you use an external separate PC power supply, you will probably need to put a moderate load on it. Most PC power supplies won't work properly unless they're loaded. I'm not sure how much load you need. Probably a couple of amps on the 5V rail would do it. So you would connect a 2.2 ohm resistor across the 5V rail (from +5V to 0V). The resistor will dissipate about 12 watts so it needs to be rated for 20W and mounted somewhere with plenty of airflow. It will get stinking hot.

It would be simpler to buy a 5V wall wart.

If the Schottky diode and electrolytic work with the green signal, you may notice the colours being wrong because the red and blue signals are not adjusted in the same way. You can fix that by adding two more of the same Schottky plus electrolytic combinations, in the red and blue video signals. For those ones, you will also need a resistor of around 220 ohms from the output signal to +5V. That's not needed for the green signal because the 74LS86 will work as a pullup.

Good luck! Let me know how it goes.
 
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HellasTechn

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The Schottky diode should raise the DC voltage of the black level of the green video signal from 0V to about +0.3V to match the signal in post #23.

I have a doubt.
Will it match the signal in post #23?
Black will go positive but sync pulses will still go negative. because they go negative about 0.5 vlots.
 

KrisBlueNZ

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Are you talking about post #21 images #1 and #2? Do you mean the little negative spike at the start of each sync pulse? That's overshoot, it's probably not really there. It's probably a measurement artefact. The actual pulse sits at 0V.
 

HellasTechn

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Like that ?
 

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HellasTechn

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It still didn't work...
I only got a black screen (but monitor worked correctly) and in monitors menu i get: 59.9-60.00 Khz H freq and (+) polarity. 60.01 Hz V freq and (-) polarity (Same as what i get when i use the 6V power supply).

Here is a thought.

When i use the circuit under 6V the monitor's staus say that it gets (+) H sync and (-) V sync.
I suppose sync on green output in this case is a little higher and that is why it works...

Under the original VGA card (that needs no circuit) if i remember correctly the monitor reported (+) H and (+) V pulses... (Makes sense cause same thing we see in the Oscope pics)

From what i can understand from the new vga cards separate sync outputs both H and V pulses are (+).

I know little about logic Gates so i do not fully understand how this circuit combines H and V pulses But i suspect that there is something wrong with the way this circuit works...
Is it possible that for some reason the V pulses are being inverted ? and going out as negative in the output ? could that be the problem ?

To be honest i am confused...

Here is a screenshot of what i get now with this mod on the circuit...

Picture :
1) taken from diodes Anode.
2) taken from diones Cathode.

Now in the next two pictures you see the waveforms i got when i changed the (diode-capacitor) polarity. meaning tha i connected Anode to VGA green signal and Cathode to pin 11 and Green+sync output to monitor.

Picture :
3) taken from diodes Anode.
4) taken from diones Cathode.

It didnt work either. As a matter of fact the monitor reported 0 H and V pulses freq.
and displayed blue screen.
but i think pic 4 looks similar to the original VGA card sync on green output.
 

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KrisBlueNZ

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Yes, your diagram in post #28 is what I suggested. I was hoping it would work...

Here is an explanation of Tomi Engdahl's circuit from post #10.

Horizontal and vertical sync signals from the VGA card are processed separately in the two gates connected to R1/C1 and R2/C2.

The resistor and capacitor detect the polarity of the signal, and the gate conditionally inverts the signal.

The result is that the outputs (pins 3 and 6) are always active high, regardless of the polarity of the signals at the video card. It's a clever trick.

An active high sync signal is normally low, and goes high for a short time at the start of each line (for horizontal sync) or field (for vertical sync).

So if you test pins 3 and 6 with the VGA card plugged in, you should see a normally low signal that pulses high briefly. The high pulse is the sync pulse.

The third gate combines the horizontal and vertical sync signals into a combined sync signal which is also active high. The logic here is not ideal, because during the vertical sync pulse, the horizontal sync pulses are actually inverted and the monitor will trigger from the wrong edge. This might possibly be a problem if the monitor is fussy about the signal. It's not easy to fix though.

So at the output of the third gate, both horizontal and vertical sync are positive. The fourth gate just inverts the active high combined sync signal, so it's normally high and pulls low for the sync pulses.

I don't know why the monitor is reporting positive horizontal sync with that circuit.

Because of the characteristics of the LSTTL output, pin 11 pulls low (down to 0V) strongly, but does not pull high strongly. So effectively it forces the sync pulses onto the green video signal.

Your true sync-on-green signal in post #23, that works with your monitor, has a positive video signal between about 0.3V (the black level) and 0.9V (maximum green), and negative sync pulses between 0.0V and 0.3V.

Your VGA card's video signals in post #19 appear to have their black level at 0.0V and peak around 1.0V.

My Schottky diode suggestion was supposed to work like this:

If a forward bias is applied to a Schottky diode, it drops typically about 0.3V (anode positive). My circuit was supposed to add 0.3V to the VGA card's video signal, to shift the black level up to about +0.3V (like in post #23). The gate would provide the bias for the diode when the gate output was high, and when the gate output was low, it would pull the outgoing video signal down to 0V, creating the negative sync between 0.0V and 0.3V.

I can't really tell much from the scope traces in post #29. You need to use a slower timebase - say 20 µs per division. Those traces just show one horizontal sync pulse.

Don't bother reversing the diode. You had it right the first time. I don't think picture 4 looks any better than the others.

Try taking a scope trace of the green+sync output WITHOUT the monitor connected. That might tell me something.
 

HellasTechn

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Mission Acomplished.

This is the way i finally go it working...

At pin 11 of the 7486 i connected a variable resistor. After experimenting i have set the value of the resistor at 166Ohm and that did the trick.

The idea came to me because i have noticed that while i was adjusting 7486 operating voltage the output voltage level was altering accordingly. So i simply added the resistor to change the output voltage level without messing with operation voltage.

Though i do not understand why the value of a variable resistor connected as a rheostat can alter the voltage level of the signal.

PS.
Thank you for providing me with your valuable knowledge. Without you i seriusly doubt that i could have done anything about this circuit.

I have an old book (back from the days of school) named: Electronic Component's Technology.
Man i do have much studying to do !
 

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KrisBlueNZ

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I don't know why it worked either. But as long as it does... great!
 
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