[Den]

"Den"


** Do you realise you CHANGED your ID after the first post ???

If you MUST do something as stupid as that again

- then let us all know.



..... Phil

Apologies - yes I realised, we've more than 1 pc & 1 user in the house...

 

[Phil Allison]

"David"

I never said it was. You stated incorrectly that a full re-wiring of the
premises does not require fitting an RCD. A full re-wiring is indeed
treated as a new installation.

** But a " major renovation " involving all new double GPOs, all new light
switches and new light fittings ( metal frames with no earth wire too) plus
new electric stove and electric water heater does NOT need an RCD to be
fitted in NSW.

True even when the premises are up for sale immediately after the
renovation.

QLD, for one, would not allow that.

Nor would any civilised place that took electrocution hazard seriously.

The ABS quotes 76% of NSW homes have an electrical safety switch fitted.

** Cite ?

Bet the figure is BOLLOCKS.



...... Phil

 

[David]

"David the Utter Fuckwit "


** Only in your demented, pig ignorant fantasy world.





** But was not the case back even 20 years ago, let alone more than 50 years
ago.

Certainly was the case 20 years ago. When was the last time you actually
did any electrical work? Oh..., I forgot..., you are not qualified to do
electrical work.

Even now, the VAST MAJORITY of residences do not have it.

Utter BOLLOCKS. A vast majority of residences do have earthing provided
to lighting outlets. Indeed the really old installations provided the
earthing (albeit poorly), by the means of the metal conduit in which the
wiring was run inside.

So it is a MAJOR reason why the MAJORITY of lighting circuits are and
have been for decades kept seperate.

Not a *MAJOR* reason as all, as has been explained in previous posts.

No go eat a big packet of Ratsak -

No thanks. No need to thin my blood.

you rediculous, bloody TROLLING PEDANT !!

Here you go Phil, I found this link so you can buy the old wiring rules
and find out for yourself the rules, and when lights needed earths.

A bargain at only $2.99 !!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Australian-S...geNameZWINQ3aPOST0Q3aRECOQ3aBIDQQcmdZViewItem

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David the Utter Fuckwit "

Certainly was the case 20 years ago.

** More insane pedantry.

Utter BOLLOCKS. A vast majority of residences do have earthing provided to
lighting outlets.

** Nonsense.

Most residences are well over 20 years old.

Not a *MAJOR* reason as all, as has been explained in previous posts.

** You have explained NOTHING !!!!

you pathetic, LYING pile of shit.



....... Phil

 

[David]

"David"


** But a " major renovation " involving all new double GPOs, all new light
switches and new light fittings ( metal frames with no earth wire too) plus
new electric stove and electric water heater does NOT need an RCD to be
fitted in NSW.

What don't you understand about alterations and additions? This would
certainly be deemed to be a new installation, and if RCDs were not
fitted, and luminaries not earthed, the installation would not meet the
regulations, and would be failed by an electrical inspector.

True even when the premises are up for sale immediately after the
renovation.

QLD, for one, would not allow that.

In the 1990 QLD had a very poor electrical safety record, much worse
than any other state. They have done a lot to improve that in recent years.

Nor would any civilised place that took electrocution hazard seriously.

In reality, the majority of electrocutions in NSW are the results of
contact with overhead / underground cables, (including the rather stupid
act of train surfing and contact with the 1500VDC cables), and working
on live installations. If you look on the DFT website you will get a
breakdown of the reasons for electrocutions in NSW. Other states also
provide this information.

** Cite ?

Here is a link:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/4818.0.55.001Main+Features1Oct 2007?OpenDocument

Bet the figure is BOLLOCKS.

Thought you would!


David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David"

What don't you understand about alterations and additions?

** Huh ??????

You are the fuckwit with the WRONG idea about what constitutes them.

This would certainly be deemed to be a new installation, and if RCDs were
not fitted, and luminaries not earthed, the installation would not meet
the regulations, and would be failed by an electrical inspector.

** I can only say what the expert (?) staff at Fair Trading told me when I
complained about it to them.

That it did NOT need an RCD cos there were no new circuits fitted.

The premises were built in 1976 so predate the need for earthed light
fixtures.

Nor would any civilised place that took electrocution hazard seriously.

In reality,

** YOU are a PEDANTIC, AUTISTIC IDIOT .

Here is a link:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/4818.0.55.001Main+Features1Oct 2007?OpenDocument



Thought you would!

** It is a fake number.

Just some trumped up telephone survey BOLLOCKS.



....... Phil

 

[David]

** Huh ??????

You are the fuckwit with the WRONG idea about what constitutes them.

I know exactly what constitutes them. I suggest you find out.

** I can only say what the expert (?) staff at Fair Trading told me when I
complained about it to them.

When was this? Rules do get revised and changed with time.

That it did NOT need an RCD cos there were no new circuits fitted.

The premises were built in 1976 so predate the need for earthed light
fixtures.

Nothing to do with when the premises was built. It has to do with when
the part of the electrical installation being repaired was installed.

** YOU are a PEDANTIC, AUTISTIC IDIOT .





** It is a fake number.

See, I was right. You don't believe anything expect your own drivel.

Just some trumped up telephone survey BOLLOCKS.

Like you would know better.

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David = LIAR "

I know exactly what constitutes them.

** Wot a GRANDIOSE LIAR.

When was this?

** 2002.

Nothing to do with when the premises was built.

** Of course it does - you fucking LUNATIC.

It has to do with when the part of the electrical installation being
repaired was installed.

** Errrrr - might just be at the same fucking TIME !!!!

So all your egomaniacal blustering " house of cards " BOLLOCKS has now
just FALLEN APART.

ROTFLMAO !!!!!

Like you would know better.

* There are many ways to get accurate information.

But phone surveys of the public are NOT one of them.

FUCKWIT !!



...... Phil

 

[David]

"David = LIAR "


** Wot a GRANDIOSE LIAR.




** 2002.

Not exactly up to date information is is Phil? Rules have changed a lot
since 2002. In 2002 QLD also did not require RCDs to be fitted on change
of ownership. So now all *your* egomaniacal blustering " house of cards
" BOLLOCKS has just FALLEN APART.

Depending exactly when in 2002 it was, it could have still been covered
by the 1991 rules.

Have you checked recently to get up to date information?

** Of course it does - you fucking LUNATIC.


** Errrrr - might just be at the same fucking TIME !!!!

Errrr - might be, but might not. If there were alterations or additions
to the existing wiring, ie new circuits added, upgrade for increased
load etc, the electrical installation will be compliant to a later
standard. It is unlikely a 100 year old house will have wiring that is
100 years old.

So all your egomaniacal blustering " house of cards " BOLLOCKS has now
just FALLEN APART.

Not at all.

ROTFLMAO !!!!!





* There are many ways to get accurate information.

But phone surveys of the public are NOT one of them.

An listing to Phil Allison is also NOT one of them.

 

[kreed]

"McKavity"



** The reasons are partly historical, partly practical and partly human
safety.

1. When homes were first supplied with mains electricity, circa 100 years
ago,  the  ONLY  purpose was lighting  -   as appliances came along (
radios, vacuum cleaners, room heaters etc)  they were plugged into the light
sockets.

2. Appliances typically draw far more power than lighting does, so will
easily exceed the capacity of the cables fitted in the ceiling for
ighting  -  means a separate ( higher capacity) power circuit for appliances
is needed, preferably fitted at floor level.

3. If the ( now independent) power circuit is over-loaded and causes the
fuse to blow, it does not plunge the house into darkness - which would be
very unsafe for the people inside at night.

Then there is the issue of safety grounding, essential for appliances but
not required for ordinary lighting fixtures. So power circuits have three
pin sockets and 3 wire conductors, unlike typical lighting.

BTW:

Is your Christian name  " Phil " by any chance .................

Are you a dentist ?

.....  Phil

As well as these reasons, another might be because In Queensland
regional areas (dont know if other states did this) many years back
light and power were separately metered, I was told "lighting was
charged at more per KWH because it used less power"


One of the first places I worked at, the boss had installed mostly
plug in lights, in order to save money. He still did this in the early
80s, out of habit probably, long after the rules had changed
(He was the worst tight arse I have ever encountered. )

One of his favourite tricks was to save up his blown bulbs, jug
elements etc and when he stayed anywhere (at company expense) , he
would swap them over in the motel rooms he stayed in, bringing the
good ones back with him. He was so proud of this he would "educate"
apprentices etc to do this sort of thing, as well as forever carry on
about "the great depression" of the 1930's (probably to justify low
wages?).

Even once saw him bring in a totally fucked, and very ancient car
battery, and swap it into a company car while running, taking the good
one home. Then drove the car 150km for work, "couldnt start it" and
got the RACQ to replace it on the company expense account. He
possibly then swapped them back for all I know.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David"

Not exactly up to date information is is Phil? Rules have changed a lot
since 2002.

** More off topic DRIVEL.

In 2002 QLD also did not require RCDs to be fitted on change of ownership.

** Fraid they did.

Errrr - might be, but might not. If there were alterations or additions to
the existing wiring, ie new circuits added, upgrade for increased load
etc, the electrical installation will be compliant to a later standard. It
is unlikely a 100 year old house will have wiring that is 100 years old.

** But it was not a 100 year old house - was it - fuckhead.

At the time of renovations, the premises were a mere 22 years old.

Obvious from the dates - fuckwit.



....... Phil

 

[The Real Andy]

This rule only applies to lighting points where the luminare is
installed on an non-conductive pole where the luminare is not in an
earthed situation. Not your typical domestic installation.

David

Actually, it applied to any lighting fixture above a certain height,
domestic or not. If I have to I will go find my SAA rules and scan the
page. The rules were a lot more simple then. The new laws are not
retrospective.

 

[David]

Actually, it applied to any lighting fixture above a certain height,
domestic or not. If I have to I will go find my SAA rules and scan the
page. The rules were a lot more simple then. The new laws are not
retrospective.

Please do, or at least quote year and paragraph.

The earliest wiring rules I still have is 1991, and rule 5.3.4 is still
the same as I quoted from the 2007 version, with the only difference
being wooden instead of non conductive.

David

 

[The Real Andy]

Please do, or at least quote year and paragraph.

The earliest wiring rules I still have is 1991, and rule 5.3.4 is still
the same as I quoted from the 2007 version, with the only difference
being wooden instead of non conductive.

David

I can do that. My old sparky books will be at my parents place, so
will go pay a visit to them.

 

[Davo]

I can do that. My old sparky books will be at my parents place, so
will go pay a visit to them.

Rule 5.3.4.iii from my 1986 edition says an earthing conductor need not
be provided on "Luminaires installed outdoors on timber poles where the
luminaires are not in an earthed situation." The distance to the earth
situation is given as 2.5 metres.

What is the rule now? (I don't have my new book with me.)

 

[F Murtz]

Please do, or at least quote year and paragraph.

The earliest wiring rules I still have is 1991, and rule 5.3.4 is still
the same as I quoted from the 2007 version, with the only difference
being wooden instead of non conductive.

David

My 1969 wiring rules 0.5.31 talks of earthed situation where there is a
reasonable chance of a person touching exposed metal at same time as
being in contact with earth.ie 8 feet vertically from conductive floor.
all of bathroom lav or toilet
In those days earth was not needed on non metallic luminares or not in
earthed situation

 

[F Murtz]

I can do that. My old sparky books will be at my parents place, so
will go pay a visit to them.

Oh for the good old days of lead, split conduit and vir [vulcanised
india rubber]
I even used to install lead cable in the late 1950s early 1960s [on
ships]oops I digress.