Triggering a passive infrared sensor?

[tomadom]

I have some security cameras that need to be placed behind glass. Unfortunately, to detect motion, they utilise a passive infrared sensor and hat won't work through glass

I want to make a simple circuit such as a small passive infrared sensor for outside the glass that triggers something behind the glass, say inside a car, that would in turn trigger the passive infrared sensor on the camera. Basically I will need something that will generate infrared heat. I have considered a 5 ohm resistor with a five volt current running through it but I'm not sure if that would trigger the passive infrared sensor. I'm told and infrared LED won't work on its own.

It will need to be low voltage and simple. Does anyone have any idea how I could do this?

Thanks

 

[Harald Kapp]

Typically these passive infrared sensors (PIR) work not by detecting infrared radiation alone but in combination with motion. Using a stationary resistor to create a thermal signature alone will very likely not help. The resistor would have to move across the visual field of the camera's sensor.

You will have to tap into the camera's trigger circuit to circumvent this issue.

 

[bertus]

Hello,

As said a pir sensor reacts on movements.
The movements are detected by a fragmented lens.
Read the following article for more details:

Engineer’s guide to using PIR sensors for highly reliable security applications

Pyroelectric Infrared (PIR) sensors can be found in many commercial and domestic designs that sense motion such as can those found in security and smart lighting systems.

www.rs-online.com

Bertus

 

[danadak]

Melexis Infrared T sensors a possibility, available in various angles :

Temperature sensor ICs

We offer a broad range of contactless solutions with our single point infrared thermometers and infrared sensor arrays.

www.melexis.com

These sensors not passive though. Intelligent (signal conditioning) would be more accurate description.


Regards, Dana.

 

[tomadom]

Typically these passive infrared sensors (PIR) work not by detecting infrared radiation alone but in combination with motion. Using a stationary resistor to create a thermal signature alone will very likely not help. The resistor would have to move across the visual field of the camera's sensor.

You will have to tap into the camera's trigger circuit to circumvent this issue.

yes, thanks, that's what I'm considering. Maybe by accessing the input notes for this PIR sensor I could also create a temporary connection for a sensor that I can connect to a wire and place outside the window. I do notice that the security camera sitting opposite camera 1 seems to set camera 2 off when it starts recording. I see a bright light from camera 1's lens when viewing it from camera 2. That light seems to be setting it off but I don't know how reliable it is.

 

[tomadom]

Melexis Infrared T sensors a possibility, available in various angles :

Temperature sensor ICs

We offer a broad range of contactless solutions with our single point infrared thermometers and infrared sensor arrays.

www.melexis.com

These sensors not passive though. Intelligent (signal conditioning) would be more accurate description.


Regards, Dana.

Thanks for that.. I'll look these up.

 

[tomadom]

I'm back at this again and I have a few more questions.
My Wi-Fi camera has a passive infrared sensor built in. Does anyone know what happens once that passive infrared sensor is triggered? Does that sensor just complete a circuit similar to the way a transistor does when a current is applied?

I am actually going to make some connectors on the outside of the camera so I can attach a microwave sensor module which I will power externally. Is it a simple as closing the circuit with a transistor triggered by a microwave sensor at the point where the passive infrared sensor is soldered to the circuit board?

If any of you were to do this how would you go about it?

Thanks again.

 

[Delta Prime]

If any of you were to do this how would you go about it?

Like I did last time…I got the specifications of my aunts PIR system; voltage,current requirements (power ground & signal triggering). Went shopping and found out. They were almost identical,a direct swap! pin for pin replacement..
Passive infrared sensors detect the change in infrared radiation emitted from a moving object within its field of view.
Microwave sensors detect movement as well, but use radio waves.
If you’re gonna go microwave, go Doppler radar ; you can see through walls. They have the same voltage and current requirement as a PIR system. experimentation is in order because there will be a lot of false triggering, depending on your surroundings. below is what I used.
https://github.com/jdesbonnet/RCWL-0516

 

[tomadom]

Point taken about doppler radar. I'll look into this. However, I'm at the point of determining whether there at the location of the connection of that PIR sensor to the circuit board, whether any sensor just connected to it is just 'closing a circuit' as opposed to applying a current? The reason I ask is that I'm planning on leaving the PIR sensor fixed to the circuit board and then adding the microwave or doppler sensor? Do I need a transister?

 

[Delta Prime]

The reason I ask is that I'm planning on leaving the PIR sensor fixed to the circuit board and then adding the microwave or doppler sensor? Do I need a transister?

I can’t answer your question without more information Make, model, schematic?
What is your application?

 

[tomadom]

I can’t answer your question without more information Make, model, schematic?
What is your application?

I was just asking generally how this kind of thing works? You will not find a schematic on these.

 

[tomadom]

I managed to pull apart the camera with the built in PIR sensor and have taken down what is written on the front of the sensor. I can't seem to find the specs online. Does anyone know how to go about finding the specs for this PIR sensor.
On the face of the sensor it says:

NICERA
200F12
360

I've emailed NICERA but it's unlikely I'll ever hear from them
Thanks

 

[Delta Prime]

Have you seen this? Can you take a photo of your board please?
I hate playing where’s Waldo!
Any and all information you can give me…
Thank you.
“I went to the bookstore and asked the sales woman where is the self-help section? She said if she told me. It would defeat the purpose..”
-George Carlin

Pyroelectric IR sensor | 日本セラミック株式会社 [Nippon Ceramic Co., Ltd]

(日本語) 人間の五感に例えると、「目」の役割をするのが赤外線センサです。 強誘電体が赤外線を受けると、その熱エ

www.nicera.co.jp

 

[tomadom]

Have you seen this? Can you take a photo of your board please?
I hate playing where’s Waldo!
Any and all information you can give me…
Thank you.
“I went to the bookstore and asked the sales woman where is the self-help section? She said if she told me. It would defeat the purpose..”
-George Carlin

Pyroelectric IR sensor | 日本セラミック株式会社 [Nippon Ceramic Co., Ltd]

(日本語) 人間の五感に例えると、「目」の役割をするのが赤外線センサです。 強誘電体が赤外線を受けると、その熱エ

www.nicera.co.jp

I

I've seen that page but it doesn't help.

Pics below.

 

[Delta Prime]

I've seen that page but it doesn't help.

Understood I’ll see what I can dig up!

Pics below

Below what?
“Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
-George Carlin

Never mind, I see the pics now.
Thank you.

 

[bertus]

Hello,

Does this help:

https://atta.szlcsc.com/upload/public/pdf/source/20160903/1472896616329.pdf#page=1&view=fitH

Bertus

 

[tomadom]

Hello,

Does this help:

https://atta.szlcsc.com/upload/public/pdf/source/20160903/1472896616329.pdf#page=1&view=fitH

Bertus

It doesn't show me the part I need to see. The part number for model number of that party is written directly on the face of the sensor. Yet a Google of that part number brings nothing up.

 

[Delta Prime]

Hello,

Does this help:

https://atta.szlcsc.com/upload/public/pdf/source/20160903/1472896616329.pdf#page=1&view=fitH

Bertus

t doesn't show me the part I need to see

Hmmm; it doesn’t show me anything except this…when I click on it?

Have you tried scanning the QR code?

 

[bertus]

Hello,

I have no problem in brave.
I have attached the file.
Could it be the RE200B in the pdf?

Bertus

 

[tomadom]

Hmmm; it doesn’t show me anything except this…when I click on it?
View attachment 65512
Have you tried scanning the QR code? View attachment 65513

I had to use an internet archiving tool to use that link. Otherwise it doesn't work. WaybackMachine.


That QR code is to connect the Wi-Fi camera to the receiver such as a smartphone.