Cost of a Traffic Signal ??

[DarkMatter]

The usual approach is to do a "REDUCED SPEED LIMIT" to say 35-45MPH on
Pecos in the vicinity of that intersection with possible flashing
CAUTION sign on both sides. If you have a record of making the city
aware of the problem then I would say they're doubly in for it.

Don't shit yerself. Governments are notorious for squirming out of
being made to pay restitution for acts which were the cause of regular
folks' pain and suffering.

 

[DarkMatter]

Isn't there a presumed assumption, in a legal sense, that roads and related
infrastructure are inherently dangerous, and that safety is the
responsibility of the driver?

-

NO. BUT the driver of the vehicle that hit her could be found
liable if the impact is proven to be at a rate of speed higher than
the speed limit.

Skids, and impact data can determine this with great accuracy.

The problem is that our lame assed law boys don't investigate
accidents the same way they used to. Though you can bet when life is
lost, there is investigation done, just not the level that used to be.
The bastards got lazy... at our expense.

What should be started by the government is an enforcement regimen.

Get the friggin' cops off their asses, their faces out of their
coffee cups, and swallow their friggin' doughnuts, and get their LAME
asses out their and get some safety citations rolling. Then, lower
the speed limit in the area approaching the intersection, at least on
the blinded side, and continue, and step up the enforcement. Involve
the local media as well.

MAKE A STINK.

Tell them at a town meeting that if they want revenue, they should
light a fire under the cop's asses.

BTW, you should always follow speed limits in residential areas, and
on surface streets, even when it is 55. DON'T go the 70.

On a freeway, do whatever you have the balls to do, it's yer gas,
yer wear and tear, and yer ass if they want you, or if you decide to
hop a barrier

Around my kids, and my streets, you should have the fucking presence
of mind to fucking drive slowly, responsibly, and safely, regardless
of how efficient today's cars are, and how easy it is not to notice
your speed. Your ass should not be driving if you can't make a
fucking conscious effort to do it right, and include conformance to
speed limits. Every time I hear about another little girl killed on a
street by a hit and run driver, I get more pissed (out here they
run...fucking tijuana trash don't even have enough honor to own up to
their **** ups).

This country has gotten abso-fucking-lutley retarded in their slow
growth toward a casual attitude toward driving. Hell, we may as well
visit TJ, Mexico, and adopt their way of driving. Ever been there?
It is truly tragic. The streets are paved with 2" of CRUD...
literally. The guy lines for ANY service pole is coated with 1/4 inch
of black goo from all the street vendors' steam, and shit rising up.
Yes... SHIT. The nastiest shit you'll ever see. Probably worse than
ANTHRAX.

Anyway... back to driving...

Their should be MANDATORY driver ethics classes from grade 7 on
up... years before the kid gets anywhere near a steering wheel.

It should be harder to get and harder to keep a license. It should
be drive at 18 or older in all states, no less. No 16 year old
fucking out and out punks on our roadways.

This problem is the fault of the police... 100%.

The fact that they are casual about enforcement as well as actually
obeying the same laws they take oaths to uphold, gets noticed by US.

"We" are too casual, people. And I am NOT in that group. I am
talking about YOU GUYS.

I have been riding a bike for over ten years, and I can bet you that
I can stand at ANY moderately busy intersection ANYWHERE, or on any
overpass, and see violations of law, and common sense inside of a few
minutes. From minor to totally fucking retarded. Like a retard with
an old model mercedes, up on a FWD platform placing the floor pan at
around 3 to 4 feet from the ground. The idiot bastard can't even see
where he is going, and they retards in power out here let these stupid
fucks drive around in these retarded pieces of shit. Oh that's
right... THEY are retarded pieces of shit as well. Shit always melds
together well. I only wish the fucker would meld into a light pole
with a slight upward pitch at 60MPH, dropping to zero in 0.02 seconds.
No air bag in that beast. He'd probably land about 70 feet out, and
roll another 20 or 30. Some of you fuckers should never be allowed to
drive, you are so fucking retarded.

At least in Colorado, they have brains enough to outlaw these fucking
modified retard mobiles from the fucking public roads. You want to
build and play with a toy, go do it on other grounds, not our public
roadways. San Diego is retarded. Street racing kills tens of people
a year out here, and the idiots don't know that the way to crack down
on it is to crack down on ALL of the stupid driving. The problem is
that most of the cops don't know how to drive safely either!

Y'all claim to be nice, or "a good man" or a hero, or whatever you
justify your existences with in life, then go act like an idiot behind
the wheel, and think that you have retained you character and honor.

I see marines and other mil spec boys out here all the time driving
like fucking idiots. Mil spec moms and dads too. It's like they all
think since they do such a wondrous service for us in their military
duty, or cop or fireman duty, that they should be able to drive like
utter fucking retards.

Then, they pull something really stupid, **** up, and *CALL* it an
"accident".

Real good, boys... NOT! 3/4s of you shouldn't be allowed behind
the wheel, and some of those should never be allowed behind the wheel
again ever.

If I can ride a bike to work every day for over a decade, and some
of those work sites were 30 miles away, with me leaving for work at
5:45AM to arrive at 8:00, then these retarded bastards that theses
retarded fucked in the head judges keep giving their fucking licenses
back to can do it as well.

Come on, boys (JUDGES AND COPS AND PROSECUTORS), get with it! You
al want revenues? START CHARGING the retarded drivers out there when
they drive like idiots, and quit wasting tax dollars on your special,
coffee and doughnuts war on drugs. DO YOUR FUCKING JOB, which is
public safety and that LARGELY TRAFFIC LAW ENFORCEMENT.

 

[DarkMatter]

Congratulations.....

I, otherwise known as the one who is using the keyboard at the moment, seem
to remember that the other one, who is not using the keyboard at the moment
remembers that one, or multiple ones, of your siblings entered the legal
profession, or became accountants. The other one tells me you appeared to be
quite proud about their 'achievements'.

Why not ask them....?

It is interesting to consider the fact that 'Old Folks' used 'the system' to
benefit themselves when they were 'Young Folks'. Now they are 'Old Folks'
they have a sudden desire to manipulate the system to........ benefit
themselves.

And then they moan about it.

Be a true altruist or, shut the **** up.

Yer a goddamned idiot!

HE wants it done to benefit the community, you stupid bastard.

For all you know, he has always driven safely.

With your STFU remark, I'd bet that you are one of the 70 MPH
retarded twit types.

You need to join up with some fast moving lead, if that is the case.

All true enough?! Hahahah... ya fucking retard!

 

[DarkMatter]

That's why I'm easy...... oh oh oh oh,
I'm easy like Sunday morning........

Two birds.....

You starred in that movie.. "Total Retard" I KNOW IT!

 

[Mark Jones]

In news:[email protected] (Spehro Pefhany):

There are also budget issues. It might be nice to get rid of 100% of
all railway level crossings, but it would cost too much for taxpayers.
So they pick what they think are the most dangerous crossings and put
the $millions each into upgrading those first. Aside from the capital
cost, they require maintenance and eventual replacement. At some point
they do have to put a value on a life- if it's going to cost $5M to
upgrade the crossing and one person on average will be killed every 5
years, in a place with an average income of $xxK, maybe it won't get
done.

A hotel I stayed at recently (in Indiana) was located on a service
road beside the interstate. The service road had absolutely no
lighting and ran dead-straight parallel to the interstate until it
made a sudden unusually sharp and poorly marked right turn to curve
down and intersect the cross street. The cross street was somewhat
elevated and shielded by earth etc. so you could not see traffic there
as an indicator. There were five or six different shrines to dead
motorists at the sharp bend.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I've seen this all too often... as cruel as it may sound, perhaps these
types of situations are simply ode to Darwinisim. If you are speeding along
an unknown roadway, which is obviously not a highway you are supposed to be
speeding on, at night, in poor visibility, in heavy fog, and impale the car
onto a seemingly positioned concrete slab, then perhaps the Earth is better
off without you. Think of it this way, if every street were sunk into the
ground 9 feet and each lane were divided by strong, solid metal dividers,
then everyone could drive as fast and sloppily as they want and not worry
about getting killed. But would that be a good thing, since the roadways
would be littered with bumbling idiots with no respect for anything, no
driving skills, no fear, no care? If we haven't noticed, a lot of things in
our world are looking that way lately. Too much of a good thing *is* a bad
thing... we keep making it easier and easier for the underdogs of the world
be Jo Average, all the while postulating those who excel. The bar just keeps
dropping lower and lower and lower... we know where it is going to end up.
And in our reality, there ain't no Neo to save us but ourselves...

Regards,
Mark

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

I've seen this all too often... as cruel as it may sound, perhaps these
types of situations are simply ode to Darwinisim. If you are speeding along
an unknown roadway, which is obviously not a highway you are supposed to be
speeding on, at night, in poor visibility, in heavy fog, and impale the car
onto a seemingly positioned concrete slab, then perhaps the Earth is better
off without you. Think of it this way, if every street were sunk into the
ground 9 feet and each lane were divided by strong, solid metal dividers,
then everyone could drive as fast and sloppily as they want and not worry
about getting killed. But would that be a good thing, since the roadways
would be littered with bumbling idiots with no respect for anything, no
driving skills, no fear, no care? If we haven't noticed, a lot of things in
our world are looking that way lately. Too much of a good thing *is* a bad
thing... we keep making it easier and easier for the underdogs of the world
be Jo Average, all the while postulating those who excel. The bar just keeps
dropping lower and lower and lower... we know where it is going to end up.
And in our reality, there ain't no Neo to save us but ourselves...

Yes. I'd be willing to bet that drugs or alcohol were involved in some
of that, and single-car accidents caused by sloppy or impaired drivers
are kind of like impaired private pilots- a self-eliminating problem.
Shame about their passengers though, especially if they didn't have
much choice about getting into the car.

Bad merges and intersections can work out the other way where the
at-fault SOB in an SUV survives with minor scratches and the geek in
the Jetta gets to take a dirt nap.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Ian Buckner]

All hazards can be alleviated, that doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. I
for one would not like a man in front of my car with a red flag but it would
certainly stop most of the fatalities.

Well, "most" of the fatalities, just not the demise of the guy with
the flag....

Regards
Ian

"Outta my way, dood!"

;-)

 

[Genome]

You starred in that movie.. "Total Retard" I KNOW IT!

And I got to shag all the girlies as well. What the **** are you doing in my
hangover?

 

[Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover]

I have a "T" intersection near my house.

The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but
usual speeds are 70:

E<--------------->W (Pecos Road)
|<>-(stop sign)
|
| (Desert Foothills)

View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a
new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
(done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson

To "Off Topic" Jim:

Around So Cal, the cities bitch that a new signal costs somewhere in
the $25,000 to $75,000 range. Much of that is in labor, but I think
the higher price is for putting in the traffic sensors and upgrading
the controller to the higher sophistication. There are other
variables, like in your case there are only three corners, hence fewer
lights.

We just had an incident in the news where a kid was killed when he ran
out into the busy street in front of his house. The driver wasn't
cited because the kid ran out and there was nothing she could do to
stop in time. So the solution may be to put no parking signs along
that section of street, to give more visibility to the drivers. But
then you have people complaining about lack of parking. :-(


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
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My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Dan Marz]

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

Why sue the city 100X the cost of lights? Hey why not sue for
1,000,000,000X. Get real this can happen even with traffic lights.

Didn't the woman stop at the intersection or was the other car speeding,
if so there is the problem.

 

[Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover]

To "Off Topic" Jim:

Around So Cal, the cities bitch that a new signal costs somewhere in
the $25,000 to $75,000 range. Much of that is in labor, but I think
the higher price is for putting in the traffic sensors and upgrading
the controller to the higher sophistication. There are other
variables, like in your case there are only three corners, hence fewer
lights.

Oops, I mean only three lights at the intersection.

We just had an incident in the news where a kid was killed when he ran
out into the busy street in front of his house. The driver wasn't
cited because the kid ran out and there was nothing she could do to
stop in time. So the solution may be to put no parking signs along
that section of street, to give more visibility to the drivers. But
then you have people complaining about lack of parking. :-(

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Fred Bloggs]

True. But the city has been previously advised that the intersection
has hazards that can be alleviated.

...Jim Thompson

The main problem here might be a legal maximum on the amount that can be
awarded because it is a government entity. Do you know if Arizona has
such a law- it might not be much- usually <$500K, but whatever it is the
woman's family should get it. Now if you *really* want to make out, try
to get the state to wrongfully convict you of a felony and send you to
prison for a few years, then spring the exculpating DNA evidence on
them, and the legislature will vote you a plan for several $100K annual
payments for the rest of your life--)

 

[DarkMatter]

And I got to shag all the girlies as well. What the **** are you doing in my
hangover?

You obviously didn't see that I said RETARD, not recall.

 

[Tim Shoppa]

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

When I saw you were asking the question, Jim, I expected that you were
going to go out and install the traffic light on your own dime

Determining "the cost" may prove difficult. If the city/state hires
contractors to do the engineering and installation, you can probably in
the public records the costs of doing similar installations. If the city/
state has their own department that does this work, the number will be
much murkier, and realistically you'll never get a straight answer for
the full effort involved.

Tim.

 

[Mark Jones]

In news:[email protected] (Spehro Pefhany):

Yes. I'd be willing to bet that drugs or alcohol were involved in some
of that, and single-car accidents caused by sloppy or impaired drivers
are kind of like impaired private pilots- a self-eliminating problem.
Shame about their passengers though, especially if they didn't have
much choice about getting into the car.

Bad merges and intersections can work out the other way where the
at-fault SOB in an SUV survives with minor scratches and the geek in
the Jetta gets to take a dirt nap.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Indeed, that is so true, like when you hear about a carful of teenagers out
partying and they drive off the road. So okay, the driver is a dipshit. But
his 16-year old girlfriend asked him twice to hand over the keys, and he
wouldn't... so sometimes you just have to take a stand.

About a mile away, there is a 2-lane major street in a residential area
with no crosswalks or traffic light. The speed limit is 35 but most people
do 45+. I've seen many tributes there to pedestrians who were killed
crossing the road, and that's a truly pathetic way to go. But were those
deaths necessary? It's compelling to say "No, they could have been
prevented, by lights or crosswalks or..." but maybe that's just not the
case. It is SO easy to cross a street without being killed... why did it
happen to those people specifically? What were they thinking?

Drive (and walk) safe.

p.s. I recall seeing some statistic about the number of people killed each
year due to falling tree branches. You'd think that would be a non-existant
problem, but the number was startling, something like 5000 people a year.

 

[Fred]

I have a "T" intersection near my house.

The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but
usual speeds are 70:

E<--------------->W (Pecos Road)
|<>-(stop sign)
|
| (Desert Foothills)

View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a
new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
(done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson
--

I remember hearing statistics which implied that traffic lights contributed
significantly to road deaths. Usually through inattention or even color
blindness traffic lights are often jumped with dire consequences since both
think they have right of way. While side junctions may appear dangerous, it
this perception of danger which saves lives. The fact that this lady was
T-boned suggests she didn't look or she crossed the road at a snails pace.
One other solution you might find the city makes is to make the junction a
right turn only forcing you to make a U turn or similar in a safer place.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Indeed, that is so true, like when you hear about a carful of teenagers out
partying and they drive off the road. So okay, the driver is a dipshit. But
his 16-year old girlfriend asked him twice to hand over the keys, and he
wouldn't... so sometimes you just have to take a stand.

Younger kids wouldn't even have that much choice about it.

About a mile away, there is a 2-lane major street in a residential area
with no crosswalks or traffic light. The speed limit is 35 but most people
do 45+. I've seen many tributes there to pedestrians who were killed
crossing the road, and that's a truly pathetic way to go. But were those
deaths necessary? It's compelling to say "No, they could have been
prevented, by lights or crosswalks or..." but maybe that's just not the
case. It is SO easy to cross a street without being killed... why did it
happen to those people specifically? What were they thinking?

As an accomplished big-city jaywalker, I tend to agree. Then there are
idjits (and there's always one or two a year around here who fail) who
think they can safely cross 16 lanes of 70-80mph traffic on foot. The
motorists that hit them should sue their estates for mental distress..

Drive (and walk) safe.

p.s. I recall seeing some statistic about the number of people killed each
year due to falling tree branches. You'd think that would be a non-existant
problem, but the number was startling, something like 5000 people a year.

Never thought about it, but that makes sense. If you walk through bush
after a big storm there are some pretty massive limbs that fall across
trails. This is the time of year when I hate trees anyway. Each one on
our property will probably have a life-cycle cost of $2,000.+, not
even counting getting all their dead leaves to the curb.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

I remember hearing statistics which implied that traffic lights contributed
significantly to road deaths. Usually through inattention or even color
blindness traffic lights are often jumped with dire consequences since both
think they have right of way. While side junctions may appear dangerous, it
this perception of danger which saves lives. The fact that this lady was
T-boned suggests she didn't look or she crossed the road at a snails pace.
One other solution you might find the city makes is to make the junction a
right turn only forcing you to make a U turn or similar in a safer place.

Accident scenario:

(1) Blind approach from the west.

(2) Car ahead of victim pulled out to swing across intersection, no
opposing cars in view.

(3) Victim's car follows first car.

(4) First car, once out there in dead-man's zone sees car approaching
from west and stops straddling median.

(5) Victim is trapped straddling a traffic lane.

(6) Car from *east* T-bones victim.

The whole issue (to me) is lack of visibility to the west... i.e. a
poorly conceived uncontrolled intersection.

U-turn? Next available turn-around is *two miles* to the west
(roadway is divided by a median).

...Jim Thompson

 

[Nobody's Fool]

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
a traffic light.

Since the reason the city didn't put in a light is most likely
budgetary, all you will accomplish is to make it that much more
difficult to get a light the next time, since the city will still be
paying off the 100-light-equivalent law suit.
Americans are SO stupid with this suing crap.

Furthermore, take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
If the intersection is that unsafe, you are under a personal obligation
to protect yourself by turning right and going to some place where it IS
safe to turn and go the other direction. Failure to take simple
self-protection measures does not make it someone else's fault when you
get killed, it is simply evolution in action.

 

[Rich Grise]

Speaking of Darwin, here's a solution to the stupid driver problem:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rich_grise/images/SafeCar.gif

Cheers!
Rich